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Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s supporters disapprove of Lincoln freeing the slaves

soot said:
Unless you fundamentally disagree with what the government decides you should do in which case it wields something we like to call "the monopoly on violence" to put you in your place.

Once you start killing people because they peacefully disagree with you and just don't want to play your game any more you're pretty much wielding absolute power.

Ergo, you are a tyrant.



I see plenty of good within our country too.

Don't misunderstand me, I'm not calling for secession.

But if there's a disagreement over what the Constitution means, and the government doesn't come down on the side of securing the individual rights of the people, then the government has jumped the shark and is no longer operating according to the Constitution.

We've incrementally gotten to the point where the people serve the government, and not the other way around.

Again, I'm not calling for secession, but I live a pretty comfortable life at this point and the pain involved in turning against the government would be far worse than tolerating their bull**** for the time being.

But I can think of a number of issues that, should the government decide to go the way of pandering to the collective rather than securing individual rights would have me out in the woods practicing rhythm drills and IADs with a small cell of like minded individuals, if that makes sense.
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Individual rights can exist in a collective because the individual rights of one person can be applied to a group.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Then it is up to the current generation to adapt and make it work. to give up is to succumb to despair.
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Make it work means nothing. Just more empty platitudes.

Thousands of systems “work”. The Chinese form of government works. It has been working for some time and will continue to work.
 
ARealConservative said:
Make it work means nothing. Just more empty platitudes.

Thousands of systems “work”. The Chinese form of government works. It has been working for some time and will continue to work.
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And the alternative is do nothing and let this country disintergrate? No, I will not allow my self to think that this country is not worth saving.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
And the alternative is do nothing and let this country disintergrate? No, I will not allow my self to think that this country is not worth saving.
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I explained why consent of the governed matters.

the writing is on the wall. for too long one size fits all policy pursued almost exclusively by the left has pushed so many of into a corner, we simply don't care to defend what you built.
 
ARealConservative said:
I explained why consent of the governed matters.

the writing is on the wall. for too long one size fits all policy pursued almost exclusively by the left has pushed so many of into a corner, we simply don't care to defend what you built.
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Don't you think I don't see the stakes? I do, and I consider myself a stakeholder in this country, because it's success or failure directly affects my fate.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
Don't you think I don't see the stakes? I do, and I consider myself a stakeholder in this country, because it's success or failure directly affects my fate.
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we are living a lie

"In order to preserve the union, the succession had to be stopped."

you might as well say "in order to save you, I had to kill you"
 
ARealConservative said:
the federal government doesn't have to pay for programs directly.
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Yeah, so they pay for them indirectly. State and local gubmints get about a third of their funding from Uncle Sam. In 2012, fifteen of the top sixteen states (more than 36% in aid and grants) were "red," with OR at #12 the only exception.

>>we are sticking unborn generations with our spending

Future generations will benefit from much of the spending. The cost yer concerned about will result from all the debt we've piled up shoveling trillions at upper-income households through failed SSE policies.
 
ARealConservative said:
we are living a lie

"In order to preserve the union, the succession had to be stopped."

you might as well say "in order to save you, I had to kill you"
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If the states left the union, it would set the precedent of letting a country fall to pieces. If all the states left the United States, the constitution is effectively moot because the nation the document created no longer exists. For the United States to survive, in the minds of Lincoln and his supporters, than the southern states had to be part of that union. Without the southern states, the union would longer exist as it did when north and south were united.

By succeeding, the south was effectively killing the union.
 
Unitedwestand13 said:
If the states left the union, it would set the precedent of letting a country fall to pieces. If all the states left the United States, the constitution is effectively moot because the nation the document created no longer exists. For the United States to survive, in the minds of Lincoln and his supporters, than the southern states had to be part of that union. Without the southern states, the union would longer exist as it did when north and south were united.

By succeeding, the south was effectively killing the union.
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we define union way differently.

Let's say the wife catches the husband sleeping around. She tells him she is leaving.

He says no way, gets gun, and holds her at gun point.

later he tells everyone, he had to to that to "preserve the union".

it's nonsense. a complete lie.
 
shrubnose said:
Since 80 % of them approve of what Lincoln did it looks like slavery won't be coming back,eh?

The other 20 % can go pound sand.
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I don't think the point was that slavery will come back.
 
faithful_servant said:
Did they disapprove of freeing the slaves or using an executive order to free the slaves?? They are two different things you know. But that truth won't change your mind or get you to believe anything different than what your closed mind wants to believe....
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Yeah. They're definitely constitutional scholars expressing nuanced views on the extent of one of the least-reviewed acts of government ever, executive orders.

I'm not sure I can come up with enough sarcasm to express my disdain for this attempt to give them such a massive benefit of doubt, which I am absolutely sure has nothing to do with the fact that you rated yourself as "very conservative" and these people are supporting Trump, the loudest-mouthed xenophobe since Strom Thurmond.





Here's another line: "The polling firm says that 38 percent of them wish the South had won the Civil War." ("them" being Trump supporters).

Is that, like, states rights n'stuff? These are people who have written law review articles on the question, right? Clearly they are. Certainly they cannot POSSIBLY be racists, because we all know that racism doesn't exist anymore*?

It must clearly be anger about Fort Sumter. Or reconstruction. Or ANYTHING but the fact that if the south won we might STILL treat black people as property.





_______________________

* Unless it's black people being racist against white people. http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...attacks-frighten-citizens-puzzle-experts.html

* Or Obama being racist against white people (articles on Rev. Wright from far right news sources/blogs/etc).

* or Affirmative Action

Etc.
 
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Mr Person said:
Yeah. They're definitely constitutional scholars expressing nuanced views on the extent of one of the least-reviewed acts of government ever, executive orders.

I'm not sure I can come up with enough sarcasm to express my disdain for this attempt to give them such a massive benefit of doubt, which I am absolutely sure has nothing to do with the fact that you rated yourself as "very conservative" and these people are supporting Trump, the loudest-mouthed xenophobe since Strom Thurmond.





Here's another line: "The polling firm says that 38 percent of them wish the South had won the Civil War." ("them" being Trump supporters).

Is that, like, states rights n'stuff? These are people who have written law review articles on the question, right? Clearly they are. Certainly they cannot POSSIBLY be racists, because we all know that racism doesn't exist anymore*?

It must clearly be anger about Fort Sumter. Or reconstruction. Or ANYTHING but the fact that if the south won we might STILL treat black people as property.





_______________________

* Unless it's black people being racist against white people. http://www.debatepolitics.com/gener...attacks-frighten-citizens-puzzle-experts.html

* Or Obama being racist against white people (articles on Rev. Wright from far right news sources/blogs/etc).

* or Affirmative Action

Etc.
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As I predicted, there would be some 20W bulb accusing me of racism based on my response. Sad to see that I was right...
 
ARealConservative said:
Let's say the wife catches the husband sleeping around. She tells him she is leaving. He says no way, gets gun, and holds her at gun point.
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Let's say the husband suspects that the wife will call the police if he expands the territory over which he kidnaps and rapes women. So he shoves her out the door and changes the locks. She does call the police, and when they arrive he fires off three thousand rounds at them. Later he tells everyone he had to to that to "preserve his right to kidnap and rape women."

faithful_servant said:
accusing me of racism based on my response.
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Looks to me like he's saying you're perhaps excusing other people's racism.
 
faithful_servant said:
As I predicted, there would be some 20W bulb accusing me of racism based on my response. Sad to see that I was right...
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You aren't being criticized because you are racist, you are being criticized because you are offering deferential treatment and explanatory justifications for individuals that are almost certainly racists. The difference is subtle, but there.
 
faithful_servant said:
Did they disapprove of freeing the slaves or using an executive order to free the slaves?? They are two different things you know. But that truth won't change your mind or get you to believe anything different than what your closed mind wants to believe....
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Does it matter how it was done.
In this day and age - 17 % approve some what - 8 % disagree somewhat - 5 % disagree strongly- 17 % not sure.
47 % polled are in disagreement. How many are familiar with the Constitution?
How many are familiar with why this was done?

In this day and age, Really.
 
MrT said:
You aren't being criticized because you are racist, you are being criticized because you are offering deferential treatment and explanatory justifications for individuals that are almost certainly racists. The difference is subtle, but there.
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Right..... You're still missing the point that doing an illegal thing for a moral reason is still illegal and that's what the poll revealed...
 
TheDemSocialist said:
Read more @: Nearly 20 percent of Trump’s supporters disapprove of Lincoln freeing the slaves

Pretty stunning that many Americans hold this view. However its not stunning that they mostly flock to the biggest bigot up there, Donald Trump.. [/FONT][/COLOR]
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And 75% of Democrats appear to have no problem voting for a felon.

But your post reminds me of a photo that kind of tells another story about things that are not as they seem but people will post it anyway despite signs of unreliability.

black kkk.jpg
 
faithful_servant said:
Right..... You're still missing the point that doing an illegal thing for a moral reason is still illegal and that's what the poll revealed...
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No, it revealed that many Trump supporters are explicitly racist or (to give them some benefit of the doubt) that they are so ambivalent and dismissive of their racist tendencies that they are willing to criticize FREEING THE SLAVES because it was done through executive order.

An executive order, by the way, that was not illegal.
 
MrT said:
No, it revealed that many Trump supporters are explicitly racist or (to give them some benefit of the doubt) that they are so ambivalent and dismissive of their racist tendencies that they are willing to criticize FREEING THE SLAVES because it was done through executive order.

An executive order, by the way, that was not illegal.
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well to put it into perspective.

Poll finds majority of Americans are racist, prejudiced against blacks
'Whites suffer more racism than blacks': Study shows white people believe they are more discriminated against | Daily Mail Online
 
MrT said:
No, it revealed that many Trump supporters are explicitly racist or (to give them some benefit of the doubt) that they are so ambivalent and dismissive of their racist tendencies that they are willing to criticize FREEING THE SLAVES because it was done through executive order.

An executive order, by the way, that was not illegal.
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Sorry that you didn't read my earlier posts and instead decided to pull the race card... You want conservatives to be racist, so you assume racism when there is a far more likely and reasonable explanation for the results. This is called "bigotry".
 
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