Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats [W:130]

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Do we get that relationship by changing our behavior or demanding that they change theirs?? If Iran is a "bad guy", then do we acquiesce to their actions or do we stand up and tell them that they need to change and if they don't we will prevent them from causing harm to us, our allies and those people who can't defend themselves??? Which path to this good relationship should we be taking?

What's a few billion among friends?

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Now you're intentionally DODGING the point and inverting reality. Russia sanctioned Turkey, and now Turkey is kissing Russia's ass. In fact, just about everywhere is kissing Russia's ass, particularly the Middle-East.



Quit trying to change the subject to America.

I don't think turkey is much kissing up to russia as it is the other way around. turkey is a nato ally, and has the backing of the us govt, why would turkey just kiss up to russia? It seems more the other way around, russia is forging an alliance in order to secure it's own interests in the region, and that includes passage through turkish waters and an intact syria to keep the port there.


Oh and the subject is very valid, if you wish to bring up why russia did something, you can not ignore what triggered russia to do such things, which in every step has been because of us intervention, against their interests, their trade partners, and every strategic military location they hold.

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

I'd make sure they were more concerned about having a good relationship with us. Their boat gets a single warning over international radio channels. Then they get sunk. We go into international waters with a single security policy, "harass our navy at your own risk".

Straight of hormuz is not international waters, it is national waters belonging to iran and oman. Both countries allow military ships to pass through with prior notification. However firing warning shots in another countries sovereign waters due to a un convention the us refused to sign does not hold up well to international law.

 

[Μολὼν λαβέ]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

True. Anyone that thinks trump will not get us into more conflicts is delusional.

Iran is pushing the buttons, not the USA.

This is how Reagan handled a similar crisis with Iran. It was most effective.

 

[Casper]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Iran is pushing the buttons, not the USA.

This is how Reagan handled a similar crisis with Iran. It was most effective.
QUOTE]

As I said, there will be more.

 

[American]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Straight of hormuz is not international waters, it is national waters belonging to iran and oman. Both countries allow military ships to pass through with prior notification. However firing warning shots in another countries sovereign waters due to a un convention the us refused to sign does not hold up well to international law.

Actually innocent passage can be temporarily suspended if the security of the ship is in jeopardy.

 

[apdst]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Straight of hormuz is not international waters, it is national waters belonging to iran and oman. Both countries allow military ships to pass through with prior notification. However firing warning shots in another countries sovereign waters due to a un convention the us refused to sign does not hold up well to international law.

The Strait is 29 miles wide at it's narrowest point; it's international waters.

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Actually innocent passage can be temporarily suspended if the security of the ship is in jeopardy.

what laws grant blocking innocent passage?

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

The Strait is 29 miles wide at it's narrowest point; it's international waters.

Not quite, national waters is listed as 13.8 miles, between the two countries, this is accounted, since it's narrowest point is actually 21 miles, not 29.

This means nearly every part of the straight tends to be in someones national waters. both countries controlling the waters allow military ships with prior notice, and unrestricted commercial ships through the straight, through a un treaty. Niether country allows the us navy to encroach on their waters for the actions they do, other than passage through the straight itself.

 

[American]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

what laws grant blocking innocent passage?

Apparently that's part of the Law of the Seas under the UN.

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Apparently that's part of the Law of the Seas under the UN.

Laws of the seas is kind of a tricky thing with the un, not all countries signed or ratified them. For example the us cites un laws of sea as justification to enter iranian national waters, yet the us actually refused to sign or ratify it. Other countries have signed but not ratified it.

 

[American]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Laws of the seas is kind of a tricky thing with the un, not all countries signed or ratified them. For example the us cites un laws of sea as justification to enter iranian national waters, yet the us actually refused to sign or ratify it. Other countries have signed but not ratified it.

As long as the US military vessel is not disturbing good order in the strait, Iran has nothing to say about it. Iran is harrassing the US vessel, so it has the right to defend itself against the particular vessel.

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

As long as the US military vessel is not disturbing good order in the strait, Iran has nothing to say about it. Iran is harrassing the US vessel, so it has the right to defend itself against the particular vessel.

That actually depends as well, being if it happened in iranian water, iran has full right to monitor ships going in and out. Alot of the details missing in this story was where in the straight did it occur, in international waters? Iranian waters? or oman waters?

Under technicality a countries navy can not be easily forbidden from it's own waters short of war, and given that those fast boats pose nearly no threat to any of our military, it makes one wonder. They are small boats that can be obliterated by a destroyer, they are more or less like patrol boats then actual navy ships.

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats [W:1

It's been posted that only stupid people don't want a good relationship with Iran.
Good relationship at what expense? From all observations, Iran wins on Obama's deal all the way around.

• Elevated to a regional power
• Massive influx of cash
• Lifting of economic sanctions
• Little to no verifiable curb or abstention of their underground nuclear program

What's the US and the world gain? Anything? Anything at all other than bolder, more belligerent Iran and Iranian Ayatollahs? (Yes, militant Islamic theocratic nation leaders).

It's also been questioned if Iran support terrorist organizations. The answer to this is yes it does.

Hezbollah gets it rockets and arms from Iran (any number of cargo ships that have been stopped and boarded document this), and guess where Hezbollah shoots the rockets into? And there are other terrorist organizations Iran support, I'm sure.

 

[American]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

That actually depends as well, being if it happened in iranian water, iran has full right to monitor ships going in and out. Alot of the details missing in this story was where in the straight did it occur, in international waters? Iranian waters? or oman waters?

Under technicality a countries navy can not be easily forbidden from it's own waters short of war, and given that those fast boats pose nearly no threat to any of our military, it makes one wonder. They are small boats that can be obliterated by a destroyer, they are more or less like patrol boats then actual navy ships.

If they shoot a sailor aboard a US ship, then the US will respond.

 

[beerftw]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

If they shoot a sailor aboard a US ship, then the US will respond.

Yes the us will but did they shoot a us sailor? so far the story seems to mention they were threatened by the presence of iranian fastboats, not that the fast boats were threatening them.

Generally speaking though no official in iran or any other govt hostile or not would willingly shoot a us sailor even in their own waters unless they refused to cooperate. There could easily be any number of reasons they are there, and a shoot first ask questions later policy would lead to war, not just between iran and the us, but between alot of the middle east and iran.

 

[American]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Yes the us will but did they shoot a us sailor? so far the story seems to mention they were threatened by the presence of iranian fastboats, not that the fast boats were threatening them.

Generally speaking though no official in iran or any other govt hostile or not would willingly shoot a us sailor even in their own waters unless they refused to cooperate. There could easily be any number of reasons they are there, and a shoot first ask questions later policy would lead to war, not just between iran and the us, but between alot of the middle east and iran.

I never said they shot someone.

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Seeing as nobody has ever proven the Clintons' have had anyone killed.....your math needs a lot of work.

show me proof that putin had anyone killed.

derp...... (low hanging fruit)

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats [W:1

It's been posted that only stupid people don't want a good relationship with Iran.
Good relationship at what expense? From all observations, Iran wins on Obama's deal all the way around.

• 
  [*]Elevated to a regional power
• Massive influx of cash
• Lifting of economic sanctions
• Little to no verifiable curb or abstention of their underground nuclear program

What's the US and the world gain? Anything? Anything at all other than bolder, more belligerent Iran and Iranian Ayatollahs? (Yes, militant Islamic theocratic nation leaders).

It's also been questioned if Iran support terrorist organizations. The answer to this is yes it does.

Hezbollah gets it rockets and arms from Iran (any number of cargo ships that have been stopped and boarded document this), and guess where Hezbollah shoots the rockets into? And there are other terrorist organizations Iran support, I'm sure.

Is Iran not a regional power right now?

 

[eohrnberger]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats [W:1

Is Iran not a regional power right now?

Now it is. Yes. After the Obama deal. Before, no. They were an international pariah.

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

show me proof that putin had anyone killed.

derp...... (low hanging fruit)

Already have.

You don't think that it was just a coindence one of his fiercest critics was murdered on the day of his birthday, do you?

Or that the ex FSB man was murdered with polonium-210?

 

[Hatuey]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats [W:1

Now it is. Yes. After the Obama deal. Before, no. They were an international pariah.

Okay, so Iran wasn't during the Bush administration?

Are you sure?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Already have.

You don't think that it was just a coindence one of his fiercest critics was murdered on the day of his birthday, do you?

Or that the ex FSB man was murdered with polonium-210?

You showed me speculation. same as that which we have for the clintons.


yes, the one you mentioned probably was the kremlin.....


yes, I do thing it was probably not a coincidence. Just like I dont think the trail of death following the clintons is either.....

 

[Tigerace117]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

You showed me speculation. same as that which we have for the clintons.


yes, the one you mentioned probably was the kremlin.....


yes, I do thing it was probably not a coincidence. Just like I dont think the trail of death following the clintons is either.....

Funny how facts become "speculation" when it comes to Putin, and vice versa when it comes to the Clinton's. Double standard much?

 

[ReverendHellh0und]

Re: Navy destroyer opens fire after ‘harassing’ behavior by Iranian patrol boats

Funny how facts become "speculation" when it comes to Putin, and vice versa when it comes to the Clinton's. Double standard much?

Derp... I said they were both speculation and suggested with the caveat you set the bar for what's acceptable evidence. Did you lose your train of thought?


feel free to read back and see. Both are speculation. you are just being a hypocritical true believer.