Mission Trips

[Van Basten]

You can reach and help people without asking them to change their religion or learn about a new one.

Yes, you can.

But it wouldn't be a mission trip without spreading the gospel as Christians are tasked to do. I understand you're not a fan of it, but you should probably get over it. Not sure why you are bent over this.

BTW, churches, at times, do non-evangelical medical trips if I can call it that. My church did one to Haiti some years back and more recently the Dominican Republic. Those were literally just medical assistance and food, no preaching/evangelizing involved unless someone inquired about it personally.

 

[Knowledge=power]

Yes, you can.

But it wouldn't be a mission trip without spreading the gospel as Christians are tasked to do. I understand you're not a fan of it, but you should probably get over it. Not sure why you are bent over this.

Because they are taking advantage of people. Christians are also tasked with stoning their daughters to death if the man they marry does not want them anymore. Are you going to carry out that task, or just ignore it like a thousand other tasks that get thrown out?

BTW, churches, at times, do non-evangelical medical trips if I can call it that. My church did one to Haiti some years back and more recently the Dominican Republic. Those were literally just medical assistance and food, no preaching/evangelizing involved unless someone inquired about it personally.

That's great. I support that.

 

[JC Callender]

Leviticus and Deuteronomy are from the Old Testament. What do you find wrong with the New Testament?

Where do I begin?

Two entire books of the new testament - Leviticus and Deuteronomy - start there. And for all of the 'modern' Christians who think they can dismiss those to parts of the New Testament, form your own religion and call it Neo Chrisitanity or something because you aren't really a Christian, you just like reading an old story book and picking your favorite parts.

There's a lot of things in the New Testament that would cause harm. It promotes slavery, it objectifies women and promotes killing them for a number of ridiculous reasons, it is elitist and calls for the killing of non-believers, etc etc etc. I really hope we don't have to get into actual scripture quoting.

My issue is not with people believing in a God or loving Jesus. It's with people who are not happy simply believing and feel the need to make everyone else believe too. I also have a problem with people thinking they can ignore some parts of the bible, ignore the old testament and it's barbarism, and continue to call themselves Christians when in fact they are, most of the time, just good people who love Jesus and his teachings - just as people loved Ghandi and his teachings, or Martin Luther King Jr. and his teachings, or any number of other figures throughout history.

 

[Knowledge=power]

Leviticus and Deuteronomy are from the Old Testament. What do you find wrong with the New Testament?

To name a few.

1. Slavery - Paul wrote a letter in which he talked about meeting a runaway slave and returning it to it's owner.

Also; Matthew 18:25: "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made."

And; Mark 14:66: "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:"

Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

2. Women - Women were objects and were made to be submissive.

"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.... any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head ...For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair ...For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)" 1 Corinthians 11:2-10

3. Intolerance of homosexuality - the scripture says it all. In a book which the main character (Jesus) is supposed to be such a passive and caring person, this is pretty contradictory.

Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

 

[idk]

To name a few.

1. Slavery - Paul wrote a letter in which he talked about meeting a runaway slave and returning it to it's owner.

Also; Matthew 18:25: "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made."

And; Mark 14:66: "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:"

Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

2. Women - Women were objects and were made to be submissive.

"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.... any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head ...For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair ...For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)" 1 Corinthians 11:2-10

3. Intolerance of homosexuality - the scripture says it all. In a book which the main character (Jesus) is supposed to be such a passive and caring person, this is pretty contradictory.

Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

Worst of all, the New Testament never detracts, nor condemns, any of the blatant evil espoused by the Old Testament. Tacit approval is still approval, especially by the supposed Creator.

 

[Knowledge=power]

Worst of all, the New Testament never detracts, nor condemns, any of the blatant evil espoused by the Old Testament. Tacit approval is still approval, especially by the supposed Creator.

And if it did detract or condemn any of the evil, it would be mean... God changed his mind?? How Godly of him.

 

[JC Callender]

1. Paul’s letter to Philemon concerning the return of his runaway slave Onesimus: Philemon 1:15 – “For perhaps he departed for a while for this purpose, that you might receive him forever, no longer as a slave but more than a slave – a beloved brother, especially to me but how much more to you, both in the flesh and in the lord. If then you count me as a partner, receive him as you would me. But if he has wronged you or owed anything, put that on my account.”

Your Matthew, Mark, and Luke references are parables and accounts that included, but did not promote, slavery. There were an estimated 15 million slaves in the Roman Empire at the time, approx. 1/3 of the population, so it shouldn’t seem uncommon to include them in parables. I don’t see where Jesus promotes slavery, but He certainly saw them fit to become Christians.

2. Some argue that head covering may mean long hair, but regardless, I think God looks at men and women equally, we just may play different parts at times. The rest of your verse in Corinthians is as follows: 11:10 – “For this reason the woman ought to have a symbol of authority on her head, because of the angels. Nevertheless, neither is man independent of woman, nor woman independent of man, in the Lord. For as woman came from man, even so man comes through woman; but all things come from God.” And also, verse 11:15 – “But if a woman has long hair, it is a glory to her; for her hair is given to her for a covering. But if anyone seems to be contentious, we have no such custom, nor do the churches of God.”

3. I don’t know what to tell you about Jude 1:7 other than two homosexuals cannot naturally procreate, and maybe that’s why God condemns it. Also, Sodom and Gomorrah were destroyed for other sins as well, including arrogance and abuse of the poor (Ezek. 16:49,50), and a failure to show hospitality (Gen. 19:8).

To name a few.

1. Slavery - Paul wrote a letter in which he talked about meeting a runaway slave and returning it to it's owner.

Also; Matthew 18:25: "But forasmuch as he had not to pay, his lord commanded him to be sold, and his wife, and children, and all that he had, and payment to be made."

And; Mark 14:66: "And as Peter was beneath in the palace, there cometh one of the maids of the high priest:"

Luke 12:45-48: "The lord [owner] of that servant will come in a day when he looketh not for him, and at an hour when he is not aware, and will cut him in sunder, and will appoint him his portion with the unbelievers. And that servant, which knew his lord's will, and prepared not himself, neither did according to his will, shall be beaten with many stripes. But he that knew not, and did commit things worthy of stripes, shall be beaten with few stripes. For unto whomsoever much is given, of him shall be much required: and to whom men have committed much, of him they will ask the more."

2. Women - Women were objects and were made to be submissive.

"But I want you to understand that the head of every man is Christ, the head of every woman is her husband, and the head of Christ is God.... any woman who prays or prophesies with her head unveiled dishonors her head ...For if a woman will not veil herself, then she should cut off her hair ...For a man ought not to cover his head; since he is the image and glory of God; but woman is the glory of man. (For man was not made from woman, but woman from man. Neither was man created for woman, but woman for man.)" 1 Corinthians 11:2-10

3. Intolerance of homosexuality - the scripture says it all. In a book which the main character (Jesus) is supposed to be such a passive and caring person, this is pretty contradictory.

Jude 1:7
"Even as Sodom and Gomorrha, and the cities about them in like manner, giving themselves over to fornication, and going after strange flesh, are set forth for an example, suffering the vengeance of eternal fire."

 

[idk]

3. I don’t know what to tell you about Jude 1:7 other than two homosexuals cannot naturally procreate, and maybe that’s why God condemns it.

Millions of people suffer from infertility- they cannot naturally procreate. Neither can many born with ambiguous genitalia. Does God condemn them along with born homosexuals?

 

[JC Callender]

I'm assuming no because they don't have a choice.

Millions of people suffer from infertility- they cannot naturally procreate. Neither can many born with ambiguous genitalia. Does God condemn them along with born homosexuals?

 

[idk]

I'm assuming no because they don't have a choice.

I'm sure you've been asked this when debating homosexuality and choice, but when did you decide your sexuality? Are you saying that at some point in your life, if not currently, you felt equal sexual attraction to both sexes?

 

[JC Callender]

I don't think I've ever debated this subject and I didn't decide my sexuality. I'm assuming you don't believe that homosexuals have a choice. Not being gay myself, I don't know what the answer is.

I'm sure you've been asked this when debating homosexuality and choice, but when did you decide your sexuality? Are you saying that at some point in your life, if not currently, you felt equal sexual attraction to both sexes?

 

[Fisher]

Millions of people suffer from infertility- they cannot naturally procreate. Neither can many born with ambiguous genitalia. Does God condemn them along with born homosexuals?

God doesn't condemn homosexuals--the Bible admonishes homosexual behavior in the same way it does some heterosexual behaviors.

 

[lizzie]

And if it did detract or condemn any of the evil, it would be mean... God changed his mind?? How Godly of him.

Frankly, you seem to be confusing God with men. The perception of God differs with each individual, and thus men express it differently. As an example, if I say that God spoke to me, and said "such and such", my perception of what I believe God tells me is being filtered through my own sense of reality.

 

[idk]

I don't think I've ever debated this subject and I didn't decide my sexuality. I'm assuming you don't believe that homosexuals have a choice. Not being gay myself, I don't know what the answer is.

A person doesn't need to be gay to understand whether or not their sexuality is a choice. If you're comfortable and feel you have a firm understanding of your sexuality, then you should have an idea as to whether or not you chose it. You said you didn't choose your sexuality; neither did I. Neither did my gay brother, my lesbian boss or coworkers, or my queer girlfriend. I feel it's a safe assumption to postulate that very few people choose their sexuality. Though I won't deny that there are people with equal sexual attraction to any number of genders (my girlfriend is one of those people, though she does have a preference) and therefore have the luxury to choose which sexual interests to indulge, I feel the vast majority of people don't make that choice. So your speculation that God condemns homosexuals on the basis of their inability to naturally procreate is the equivalent of condemning any others who, for reasons unknown, find themselves unable to procreate.

God doesn't condemn homosexuals--the Bible admonishes homosexual behavior in the same way it does some heterosexual behaviors.

Condemning particular heterosexual behavior is quite different from a universal condemnation of homosexuality, which, if not explicitly condemned in writing by God, is certainly condemned by a significant portion of influential Christians, if not the majority. So, for all functional intents and purposes, homosexuals find themselves condemned in either life or the afterlife.

 

[captainawesome]

I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

What? That's crazy.

 

[JC Callender]

Do you have any idea why God would condemn homosexuality? Other than that issue, if you've read the Bible, what do you think of it?

A person doesn't need to be gay to understand whether or not their sexuality is a choice. If you're comfortable and feel you have a firm understanding of your sexuality, then you should have an idea as to whether or not you chose it. You said you didn't choose your sexuality; neither did I. Neither did my gay brother, my lesbian boss or coworkers, or my queer girlfriend. I feel it's a safe assumption to postulate that very few people choose their sexuality. Though I won't deny that there are people with equal sexual attraction to any number of genders (my girlfriend is one of those people, though she does have a preference) and therefore have the luxury to choose which sexual interests to indulge, I feel the vast majority of people don't make that choice. So your speculation that God condemns homosexuals on the basis of their inability to naturally procreate is the equivalent of condemning any others who, for reasons unknown, find themselves unable to procreate.



Condemning particular heterosexual behavior is quite different from a universal condemnation of homosexuality, which, if not explicitly condemned in writing by God, is certainly condemned by a significant portion of influential Christians, if not the majority. So, for all functional intents and purposes, homosexuals find themselves condemned in either life or the afterlife.

 

[captainawesome]

The religions of Abraham are meant for ignorant, violent, bronze age humans that is why it does well in Africa.

 

[ChuckBerry]

The religions of Abraham are meant for ignorant, violent, bronze age humans that is why it does well in Africa.

troll detected

 

[Cyrylek]

I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

Don't you think that those people may actually want more than the food and water? May be wondering why the food and water is so scarce here but not there? May it have something to do with how people in a given society treat each other? And may that, in turn, have something to do with their beliefs?

And another thing: In Russian, there's a proverb - hard to translate, but roughly: "Sacred ground is never empty". If they don't build a church there, or we atheists don't build a "temple of science" (or whatever), there will be some hideous idol erected. People crave faith. I would rather have them reading the Book of Mormon than the Communist Manifesto, on any given sunny day, in the "heart of darkness".

 

[captainawesome]

troll detected

Jesus and Mohmed were trolls.

 

[Cephus]

I don't think I've ever debated this subject and I didn't decide my sexuality. I'm assuming you don't believe that homosexuals have a choice. Not being gay myself, I don't know what the answer is.

If you never chose your sexuality, why do you assert that homosexuals chose theirs? There is no evidence whatsoever that they did. If they didn't, then God is a bastard for condemning them for something they had no control over.

Why do you worship an evil, sick, sadistic bastard?

 

[Peter Grimm]

I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

Are you jealous of your relatives for having a purpose, while you do not?

You should join them. It sounds like your relatives are good people, doing the lord's work, and feeding the needy to boot.

 

[Peter Grimm]

i disagree
the Christians are not distributing the goods to the native residents
they are using the goods needed by the native population as bait, to allow them an opportunity to proselytize

And what is wrong with that?

 

[Peter Grimm]

Exactly how I feel. Being a humanitarian and going to Africa simply to help because you want to, and not to please a God or spread a message about that God is much more philanthropic than doing it with an agenda.

Great. When are you leaving?

 

[Peter Grimm]

Any religion, be it Christian, Muslim or Scientologist for that matter, who preys upon people in their time of need in order to foist their idiotic beliefs on others are reprehensible human beings.

Hollow words coming from someone who is likely sitting on his couch eating Pringles, while Christians in Africa are feeding the hungry, building schools, etc.