Mission Trips

[Cephus]

Some people need to grow the frack up and find something real to whine about. Like maybe the American pastor under sentence of death in the Middle East for daring to teach Christianity to interested parties.

You mean the guy who knowingly violated the law of the land and is now paying the penalty? He got what he deserved.

 

[FluffyNinja]

You mean the guy who knowingly violated the law of the land and is now paying the penalty? He got what he deserved.

So, you're okay with blatant human rights violations..........good to know. Thanks for clearing that up for us Cephus.

 

[justabubba]

So, you're okay with blatant human rights violations..........good to know. Thanks for clearing that up for us Cephus.

what human rights violation are you referring to

 

[Cephus]

So, you're okay with blatant human rights violations..........good to know. Thanks for clearing that up for us Cephus.

No such thing as inherent human rights, sorry. Rights are bestowed by societies and in that society, there is no right to free speech or free expression of religion.

 

[Knowledge=power]

The op's first sentence in his post declared that he despises Christians. Despise is clearly hatred. Personally, I don't care if he hates Christians or not, but if he doesn't, then he should have made that clear.
As for proselytizing, yeah, I tend to agree with you, but the people I know who go on mission trips, aren't proselytizing. They are providing humanitarian services in poor areas of the world.

I don't hate Christians, just to clear this up. I simply do not like a lot of the things they do.

 

[JC Callender]

I see you discussing a lot on religious topics, and am assuming you've read the New Testament. Do you find anything major wrong with the New Testament to where you believe it causes more harm than good, and if so, what?

I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

 

[Cephus]

I don't hate Christians, just to clear this up. I simply do not like a lot of the things they do.

I don't hate Christians, I just hate Christianity.

 

[idk]

If churches were being built at the expense of building medical facilities, I would agree with you. Church buildings can serve more than one function, they are often used as general meeting places, school houses, etc.

Others see value in having a place to worship God, it's not really relevant that you don't. These are private organizations that are doing what they think is right.

My opinion is not relevant to what? I'm not sure what you're referring to when you dismiss the relevance of my opinion in a conversation about religious missions- seems like a non sequitur.

Religious organizations have a right to build religious facilities wherever they please. I have a right to criticize their decision to allocate humanitarian funds toward the construction of religious buildings in the interest of spreading their religion. It's self-serving. If you're truly on a humanitarian mission, then you should spend your limited funds exclusively on endeavors which benefit the disadvantaged society in question. For any objective which requires capital, spending that does not advance that objective is wasteful spending. When the objective is humanitarian aid, wasteful spending leads to inefficiency with a human cost. I find that immoral, and in the context of religion, hypocritical.

Let's say a Vegas casino decides to embark on a "mission." They first build a clinic, then a small school, then one of their casinos because "people see value in having a place to spend money." I think you would agree with me that the casino owners' intentions are disingenuous. I see the same insincerity with religious missions, but they're allowed to get away with it because most people in this country are Christian, whereas most people in this country are not gamblers.

I say, for both the religious mission and the gambling mission, focus exclusively on the benefiting the needs of the people. Help the economy grow. If the people decide they want a church, or if they decide they want a casino, they will build it themselves when they are in a position to do so, and you will know you have succeeded.

 

[lizzie]

I have no way of knowing, but K=P may be vocalizing his doubts about his own faith. I've certainly been that and done there. If we all agreed, if all of us had no problems with the practices of other faiths we'd all be the same faith. That ain't gonna happen. What we can hope for is for the members of all faiths to respect each other. Your faith doesn't need to be wrong in order that mine can be right. That's perhaps the main reason people really don't like proselytizing.

To the bolded:
As have I, and I dropped it completely, except that I still believe that many of the concepts are wonderful, but then that can be said of essentially any religion that is well-known.

I don't mind proselytizing personally, because all I need say (and it's true), is that I was raised in the Baptist church, by devout parents. This seems to alleviate the fears of those who ask. Admittedly, if they knew what I actually believe, they'd think I was doomed to hell for sure. :lol:

Anyway, back to the subject- as I said, those who go on mission trips typically go for humanitarian reasons, and out of love for their fellow man, and not because they are trying to push their religion. They believe it is the way, and they have truly good intent, and for that, I refuse to bash or hate them.

 

[Risky Thicket]

I was complaining to a neighbor one time about the number of religious people ringing my door. He has a big cross in his yard and a flag pole with a big Murkin flag. He said, "That's odd, they never come to our house."

Me, "No ****. Wonder why?" :lamo

 

[lizzie]

I was complaining to a neighbor one time about the number of religious people ringing my door. He has a big cross in his yard and a flag pole with a big Murkin flag. He said, "That's odd, they never come to our house."

Me, "No ****. Wonder why?" :lamo

Hmmm- sounds pretty smart to me, lol.

It reminds me of a good friend of mine, and her neightbor from a few years ago. She (my friend) is one of those people who just rubs you the wrong way until you get to know her (kind of like me ), and she used to be relatively poor, but is a go-getter who would tackle any project, and eventually became highly successful monetarily. At the time, she lived in a pretty trashy mobile home community, and she had this next door neighbor who had this huge fake Christmas tree in his front yard. He left it up year-round. :lol:

 

[FluffyNinja]

No such thing as inherent human rights, sorry. Rights are bestowed by societies and in that society, there is no right to free speech or free expression of religion.

Okay, got it. It's certainly a good thing, in my opinion, that hundreds of millions of people worldwide disagree with you. :shrug:

 

[FluffyNinja]

I don't hate Christians, I just hate Christianity.

How can you hate Christianity without hating its adherents.........without Christ and his disciples (of old and present) there'd be no Christianity.....would there? I don't really see how it's possible to hate Christianity as a practice/belief system without hating those who are actually putting it into "practice."

Your bigotry is thus noted.

 

[FluffyNinja]

what human rights violation are you referring to

Receiving a death sentence for expressing one's religious beliefs perhaps? :shrug:

 

[Fisher]

I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

IDK. I know a woman who is on a mission trip to Ireland. When she gets back, I will ask her what atrocities she committed on the doorless Celtic masses.

 

[Sherman123]

I have relatives who are going (for a second time) to Africa to talk about Jesus.

This is something I really despise about Christianity and Christians. They are converting people by dangling a cheerio in front of them. The people to whom they try to sell Jesus and Christianity just want the food and water. I wonder how many of them actually care or just want the aid. These people do not have the luxury of shutting the door in the bible salesman's face. They need the help. Humanitarian aid is much more pure and does not have some hidden agenda.

We call them the t-shirt brigades. You can always tell who they are when you land in an African or Latin American air port because they are all wearing color coded t-shirts and they clog customs and security checks that are not equipped to handle hundreds of extra passengers. As a result it takes hours to process through, and all the locals and foreigners there for business hate them with a passion. Though while most of them do extremely superficial charity work and thus earn the ire of everyone, a few groups really do come in and spend a few weeks doing some hard work (building a load bearing road, digging a plumbing system, constructing houses, etc) and it is appreciated and very kind to see.

 

[Cephus]

Okay, got it. It's certainly a good thing, in my opinion, that hundreds of millions of people worldwide disagree with you. :shrug:

Argumentum ad populum is a fallacy for a reason. It doesn't matter how many people agree or disagree, it matters if the proposition is true. Try again.

 

[Cephus]

How can you hate Christianity without hating its adherents.........without Christ and his disciples (of old and present) there'd be no Christianity.....would there? I don't really see how it's possible to hate Christianity as a practice/belief system without hating those who are actually putting it into "practice."

Your bigotry is thus noted.

How can you claim to hate sin without hating sinners? Geez, don't you know your own theology?

 

[Knowledge=power]

I see you discussing a lot on religious topics, and am assuming you've read the New Testament. Do you find anything major wrong with the New Testament to where you believe it causes more harm than good, and if so, what?

Where do I begin?

Two entire books of the new testament - Leviticus and Deuteronomy - start there. And for all of the 'modern' Christians who think they can dismiss those to parts of the New Testament, form your own religion and call it Neo Chrisitanity or something because you aren't really a Christian, you just like reading an old story book and picking your favorite parts.

There's a lot of things in the New Testament that would cause harm. It promotes slavery, it objectifies women and promotes killing them for a number of ridiculous reasons, it is elitist and calls for the killing of non-believers, etc etc etc. I really hope we don't have to get into actual scripture quoting.

My issue is not with people believing in a God or loving Jesus. It's with people who are not happy simply believing and feel the need to make everyone else believe too. I also have a problem with people thinking they can ignore some parts of the bible, ignore the old testament and it's barbarism, and continue to call themselves Christians when in fact they are, most of the time, just good people who love Jesus and his teachings - just as people loved Ghandi and his teachings, or Martin Luther King Jr. and his teachings, or any number of other figures throughout history.

 

[Knowledge=power]

IDK. I know a woman who is on a mission trip to Ireland. When she gets back, I will ask her what atrocities she committed on the doorless Celtic masses.

Can't tell if sarcasm...

 

[Knowledge=power]

Receiving a death sentence for expressing one's religious beliefs perhaps? :shrug:

If you think recieving a death sentence for expressing one's religious beliefs isn't common in Christian history - then you don't know Christian history. And since you think it is a violation of human rights, you are admitting that Christians have violated human rights throughout history.

 

[Knowledge=power]

Maybe, K=P will post again here and clear that up. It would be interesting to know if he still identifies himself as a Christian. As for the despise/hate issue it would be good to know what he meant by that.

Thank you Risky. I have cleared it up, but I will reiterate. I do not hate Christians. The word despise may have been misused in my op. I do not like a lot of things they do, and I do not limit my dislike to Christian practices only. I do not I identify myself as a Christian, but I also do not mind if other people do. It becomes an issue to me when it is pushed onto people. Believe for yourself.

Personally, I have hated and I didn't like it. It is an insidious feeling that grows to the point that it has the power to overcome you and define you. That little kid TJ, who was sentenced to life in prison in Ohio, is an example of what real hatred can become. I don't hate and I don't wish hatred on anyone. Perhaps I am wrong, but I don't detect hatred in K=P.

I didn't know Risky Thicket was a Jedi name You are right, I do not hate them. I simply dislike a lot of their practices. It has grown recently. My extended family is devoutly religious. They shove it in my face all of the time.

I have no way of knowing, but K=P may be vocalizing his doubts about his own faith. I've certainly been that and done there. If we all agreed, if all of us had no problems with the practices of other faiths we'd all be the same faith. That ain't gonna happen. What we can hope for is for the members of all faiths to respect each other. Your faith doesn't need to be wrong in order that mine can be right. That's perhaps the main reason people really don't like proselytizing.

I started doubting my faith a long time ago. It was a very scary experience and the change was very slow, especially because of how religious my family is.

I remember a few years ago when a group of Baptists (SBA or whatever, I do not remember) became so fed up with bell ringing, bicycle riding proselytizers that they flew to Utah to ring door bells and hand out religious tracts! Who can blame those Baptists for feeling frustrated with bell ringers? No one likes it. I remember the event because I thought it had the elements of a good comedy.

Put a young Chevy Chase in a movie called Mormon Vacation and I'd pay to see it.

Certainly great work is done by many people in the name of their faith. It is my belief and my practice that when I contribute money or effort to needy people, the intent and intrinsic good is diminished if the money or effort must be connected to me or to my religion.

It is not the work and the help I have an issue with. I think it is great. I just do not like the attached agenda.

 

[Van Basten]

Haven't gone on one yet, yet, that is.

It's about reaching and helping people, not tricking them with food or any sort of compulsory conversion. Jeez, the crap people are willing to say.

 

[Knowledge=power]

Haven't gone on one yet, yet, that is.

It's about reaching and helping people, not tricking them with food or any sort of compulsory conversion. Jeez, the crap people are willing to say.

You can reach and help people without asking them to change their religion or learn about a new one.

 

[Fisher]

Can't tell if sarcasm...View attachment 67144750

Hey I didn't know people did missions to Ireland either so I have many questions for her all on my own.......