Military May Relax Recruiting Standards for Fitness and Pot Use (1 Viewer)

[braindrain]

I am not a fan of Carter at all. His big idea is to end or massively cut back on the practice of "up or out", he says because "hey, we can still use these guys" which is not the point at all. The point for those who need reminding is to have the most effective military and I say the dog eat dog competition for the right to do a 20-30 year career is critical to making sure that we have the best people. I do not want substandard people sticking around because a job that they are capable of doing can be found.


up-or-out-military-promotions-joint-chiefs-of-staff-disagreement-pentagon-ash-carter

I disagree. The up or out system forces a lot of otherwise great soldiers out of the military. I have known some soldiers that were excellent as squad leaders but would not make good platoon SGTs due to either ability or simply no desire to do the job. How does kicking a very capable and experienced squad leader out of the military make for a stronger force.

 

[Brewdog]

How many times have you been in a hole with a week old funk buddy?

How many times have you been in a hole with a menstruating female?

I'd suggest if that smell gags you being a grunt just isn't for you... LOTS more rancid smells out there... eace

I've been in a mud hole or desert fighting hole for long periods, and it can get pretty rank. But my own BO smells like the other guy's does. Rotten menstration blood smells horrid. It's not to the level of burning flesh, but it's nasty and putrid and I just don't think it's necessary for an infantryman to have to deal with even more problems by having a female in the hole than he already has to deal with as a rifleman. There's enough stress without adding females into the mix. The battlefield shouldn't be a progressive social experiment.

 

[apdst]

I don't have to have a dick measuring contest. It's a long known fact that Marines have bigger johnsons that the other branches. Such a contest would be pointless and unfair to the other services.

You illustrate my point.

 

[braindrain]

After decades of bad buying choices and systems, and as well years of budget cutting and Obama, the military is highly stressed and judging by the tale of how Iran got hostages and 1000 other stories that are out there it is performing poorly. I get the idea that if Ash Carter were running a failing McD's he would be going on and and about the need to repaint the parking lot. THe military must have a 100 problems that are more acute than the promotion system.

But this is what he picks as his signature initiative.

Again have to disagree. The poor promotion system especially within the officer core is a big part of the reason the military faces as many issues as it does.

 

[apdst]

I've been in a mud hole or desert fighting hole for long periods, and it can get pretty rank. But my own BO smells like the other guy's does. Rotten menstration blood smells horrid. It's not to the level of burning flesh, but it's nasty and putrid and I just don't think it's necessary for an infantryman to have to deal with even more problems by having a female in the hole than he already has to deal with as a rifleman. There's enough stress without adding females into the mix. The battlefield shouldn't be a progressive social experiment.

When did that happen? When the Marines were deployed to The 6 Day War?

 

[Brewdog]

When did that happen? When the Marines were deployed to The 6 Day War?

You're right. You caught me. The Marines never see the desert.

 

[apdst]

You're right. You caught me. The Marines never see the desert.

I didn't say that. I'm just curious as to when and where Marines spent weeks in a desert defensive line, since, well, ever.

 

[Brewdog]

I didn't say that. I'm just curious as to when and where Marines spent weeks in a desert defensive line, since, well, ever.

Desert Storm

 

[notquiteright]

I've been in a mud hole or desert fighting hole for long periods, and it can get pretty rank. But my own BO smells like the other guy's does. Rotten menstration blood smells horrid. It's not to the level of burning flesh, but it's nasty and putrid and I just don't think it's necessary for an infantryman to have to deal with even more problems by having a female in the hole than he already has to deal with as a rifleman. There's enough stress without adding females into the mix. The battlefield shouldn't be a progressive social experiment.

You have been in a hole with a menstruating female soldier? You have gone a week without a shower in said hole? I'm at a loss on how you ever smelled menstrual flow given how a tampon works, or field sanitation is performed (do you leave your ****s laying around as well?). My best advice is grunts need to keep their faces out of their Battle Buddy's crotch- no matter the gender.

Having been an actual grunt in an actual hole with an actual nasty battle buddy- smells were THE LEAST of our concerns... take that to the bank- smells to include rotting flesh- paled next to the prospect of becoming one of THOSE stinking lumps of foul flesh...

Soooo you're ok with the smell of a young in shape female the other 25 days of the month? Seems THAT would be far more distracting to a young hard charger spending so much time in a hole in the deep dark of night... eace

 

[Brewdog]

You have been in a hole with a menstruating female soldier?

Nope.

 

[Casper]

You see folks coming in to back you up, huh?

Why would I be asking for back up, you're light work, Slick.

 

[notquiteright]

Nope.

So how do you know what her old tampons smell like... who are all the single ladies you dally with??? Must be some rough females...

Now when you was in your hole (I'm gonna hazard not as a Grunt as you don't parlez the slang) did you leave your MRE poops laying around?

Seems you are complaining about a smell you never smelled under conditions, a grunt in combat with a tampon tapped female, you never experienced....

just saying... eace

 

[apdst]

Desert Storm

Oh yeah, that's right. 1st and 2nd Marine Divisions anchored the right flank while the rest of us attacked. I forgot about that.

 

[Hawkeye10]

Again have to disagree. The poor promotion system especially within the officer core is a big part of the reason the military faces as many issues as it does.

We have often promoted the wrong people, but that because the culture sucks, not the mechanics of the promotion system. This here is an attempt to pretend fix the problem. Either that or the DC are even dumber than I figured.

 

[apdst]

Why would I be asking for back up, you're light work, Slick.

Because you're wrong. That's why.

https://www.drugabuse.gov/publications/drugfacts/substance-abuse-in-military

 

[Hawkeye10]

I disagree. The up or out system forces a lot of otherwise great soldiers out of the military. I have known some soldiers that were excellent as squad leaders but would not make good platoon SGTs due to either ability or simply no desire to do the job. How does kicking a very capable and experienced squad leader out of the military make for a stronger force.

It puts fear in the hearts of those who want to stay. They will go the extra mile to do good so that they can eliminate any chance that the up or out system comes for them.

Exactly fair? No, no it is not, but I dont give a ****.

Life is not fair, and this is important.

Question answered.

 

[VanceMack]

Silly human, a 'fattie' won't make it out of Ft Benning's School for Bad Boys... :roll:

Now 'the job' 99.99% of the service members do these days doesn't involve a ruck, a wounded buddy and more than likely a good deal of computer skills.

When it comes to humping a ruck or fireman carry a wounded comrade the grading is the same as any other skill... can the service member pass given the task, conditions and standards...

same for manning a radar set, pulling an engine, testing commo gear, hitting a vein, humping projos, or driving a truck... eace

Not sure where the disconnect comes from in this conversation. My statement was that weight is a lousy predictor of fitness. I never suggested unfit people should be allowed to serve in any capacity.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

 

[JamesGang]

Just FYI it was under Bill Clinton's administration that the "Zero Tolerance" for pot use concerning military personnel was implemented...

 

[braindrain]

We have often promoted the wrong people, but that because the culture sucks, not the mechanics of the promotion system. This here is an attempt to pretend fix the problem. Either that or the DC are even dumber than I figured.

No the Army promotion system is rather flawed and it leads to politicking and butt kissing rather then actual job performance being the main factor that determines promotion.

 

[braindrain]

It puts fear in the hearts of those who want to stay. They will go the extra mile to do good so that they can eliminate any chance that the up or out system comes for them.

Exactly fair? No, no it is not, but I dont give a ****.

Life is not fair, and this is important.

Question answered.

No the question is not even close to answered.

It has nothing to do with doing good or being fair. Take me for instance. I have zero desire to do the job of a SGM. It simply holds zero interest for me. But I have been very successful as a senior E7 on my team. I am purposefully not doing several of the tasks that ensure promotion to E8 until I am closer to the 16 year mark as after two years as a E8 my team time will most likely be over and the only other real place to go is SGM. Those tasks provide zero benefit to my ability on my ODA.
What sense does it make to kick me off my team and out of the military when I am an experienced Soldier who is depended by team leadership to get things done and have always received very good NCOERs. How is my team or my company more effective with me gone because I don't want to do a staff job.

 

[Hawkeye10]

No the question is not even close to answered.

It has nothing to do with doing good or being fair. Take me for instance. I have zero desire to do the job of a SGM. It simply holds zero interest for me. But I have been very successful as a senior E7 on my team. I am purposefully not doing several of the tasks that ensure promotion to E8 until I am closer to the 16 year mark as after two years as a E8 my team time will most likely be over and the only other real place to go is SGM. Those tasks provide zero benefit to my ability on my ODA.
What sense does it make to kick me off my team and out of the military when I am an experienced Soldier who is depended by team leadership to get things done and have always received very good NCOERs. How is my team or my company more effective with me gone because I don't want to do a staff job.

Has nothing to do with you, it has to do with the culture of the Army, it has to do with promoting greatness in the army.

You(F) are one guy, you(F) are expendable in the pursuit of the greater cause.

But you gotta understand that I am a socialist.

As well an Eastern trained mind.

What I say is the normal.

The best way,

Says I.

:nails

 

[notquiteright]

Not sure where the disconnect comes from in this conversation. My statement was that weight is a lousy predictor of fitness. I never suggested unfit people should be allowed to serve in any capacity. Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Not sure either though 'unfit' depends on the job at hand... most who serve will never leave an office except to go home. Most will never have to carry a ruck so 'unfit' is a sliding scale depending on the job... eace

 

[Fledermaus]

Oh yeah, that's right. 1st and 2nd Marine Divisions anchored the right flank while the rest of us attacked. I forgot about that.

Ummmmm Wrong.

The Marines swept to Kuwait City, stopping to allow Coalition Forces to "Liberate" the city.

 

[EnigmaO01]

There are some solid goods that can come out of this.

1. The tat restrictions are idiotic.
2. The weight standards are similarly idiotic - I had a Marine who was a competition body builder. Girl had a resting 6-pack. The Marine Corps told her she was "obese". :roll: Physical standards should be capability based, not how-thick-is-your-neck-and-how-tall-are-you based.

We had a male body builder in the NG that was booted for being overweight. Never mind the weight was all muscle. i agree with you 100 percent.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

We had a male body builder in the NG that was booted for being overweight. Never mind the weight was all muscle. i agree with you 100 percent.

In the National Guard??? When I was in the Guard back in the 90s they didn't even kick out morbidly obese people. Maybe things changed when it became a wartime Army.