MH17 missile 'came from Russia', Dutch-led investigators say

[flogger]

OK, you're not interested in historical behavior. Somehow, I'm not surprised.

What has an airliner shot down by Russia over their occupied territory have to do with things that happened 6000 miles away and half a century ago in a country not involved ?

How about the Pat Tillman deception? Or are you even aware of it?

So was it him that shot it down then ? :lol:

 

[Thoreau72]

What has an airliner shot down by Russia over their occupied territory have to do with things that happened 6000 miles away and half a century ago in a country not involved ?



So was it him that shot it down then ? :lol:

I forgot to mention to you that I am a student of human behavior. I am not unique in that regard, but I see and study human behavior, both on an individual basis, and the behavior of groups of humans.

The Pentagon's propensity for deception and lies is well established, going back decades. You may not be able to perceive it, but many are.

I also forgot to tell you that some of the video taken that day and subsequently taken down, apparently, included about 30 seconds of MH17 as it slowly spiralled to earth. Just guessing, its final seconds of descent from about 2500 feet AGL.

It was amateur footage, and slightly out of focus, but the aircraft was in a spiral, and one of its engines was on fire.

So my guess is that the 2 climbing fighters took turns maybe, as 2 cats might play with a mouse. One fired AAM which started the engine fire observed, while the second maneuvered for the successful cannon fire.

 

[braindrain]

I forgot to mention to you that I am a student of human behavior. I am not unique in that regard, but I see and study human behavior, both on an individual basis, and the behavior of groups of humans.

The Pentagon's propensity for deception and lies is well established, going back decades. You may not be able to perceive it, but many are.

I also forgot to tell you that some of the video taken that day and subsequently taken down, apparently, included about 30 seconds of MH17 as it slowly spiralled to earth. Just guessing, its final seconds of descent from about 2500 feet AGL.

It was amateur footage, and slightly out of focus, but the aircraft was in a spiral, and one of its engines was on fire.

So my guess is that the 2 climbing fighters took turns maybe, as 2 cats might play with a mouse. One fired AAM which started the engine fire observed, while the second maneuvered for the successful cannon fire.

You don't honestly expect anyone one to believe you do you. Especially with your track record.

Oh I also forgot to tell you that there was a short video taken of the Russians shooting their BUK missiles at the plane. Unfortunately that video was taken down but you just need to take my word for it.

It's beyond believe to think that there would be proof out their that Russia could use to prove they had nothing to do with this but yet they just choose not to. Only a CTer in complete denial of reality would believe such garbage.

 

[Thoreau72]

You don't honestly expect anyone one to believe you do you. Especially with your track record.

Oh I also forgot to tell you that there was a short video taken of the Russians shooting their BUK missiles at the plane. Unfortunately that video was taken down but you just need to take my word for it.

It's beyond believe to think that there would be proof out their that Russia could use to prove they had nothing to do with this but yet they just choose not to. Only a CTer in complete denial of reality would believe such garbage.

I don't really give a GGD whether anybody believes me. I have merely stated the facts I observed as this event unfolded 2 years ago.

I understand full well that in a time of universal deception, speaking the truth is a radical act.

I predicted and expected that the NATO governments would conduct the modern equivalent of a Star Chamber event, for the simple reason that is what it started as.

The Spaniard ATC controller spilled the beans on Kiev changing altitude and routing, and Kiev never did provide records, and it's a safe assumption that Carlos was quickly dispatched.

Feel free to buy into the propaganda, but I'll pass. It is irrational to believe known liars.

 

[Quag]

I don't really give a GGD whether anybody believes me. I have merely stated the facts I observed as this event unfolded 2 years ago.

I understand full well that in a time of universal deception, speaking the truth is a radical act.

I predicted and expected that the NATO governments would conduct the modern equivalent of a Star Chamber event, for the simple reason that is what it started as.

The Spaniard ATC controller spilled the beans on Kiev changing altitude and routing, and Kiev never did provide records, and it's a safe assumption that Carlos was quickly dispatched.

Feel free to buy into the propaganda, but I'll pass. It is irrational to believe known liars.

Your attempted deception isnt fooling anyone.

 

[Rogue Valley]

I don't really give a GGD whether anybody believes me. I have merely stated the facts I observed as this event unfolded 2 years ago.

'Facts' that you keep only to yourself. It's easy to ballyhoo 'facts' when you never show any.

 

[Thoreau72]

'Facts' that you keep only to yourself. It's easy to ballyhoo 'facts' when you never show any.

Precisely how the US has handled it since the start. All sorts of allegations from "anonymous sources", but not one single fact to support those claims. You might be gullible enough to buy into that crap, but I'm not.

In stark contrast, within days the Russians provided radar information to the international community (which essentially rejected it), and it supported at least some of the statements by the peasants who saw the fighters going out and the airliner fluttering down.

Why is it the Russians play a more honest game than the US? To me that FACT is embarassing. Why is my government always lying and fabricating? Why are they not interested in the truth? Why are they always attempting to overthrow legitimate governments?

 

[Quag]

Precisely how the US has handled it since the start. All sorts of allegations from "anonymous sources", but not one single fact to support those claims. You might be gullible enough to buy into that crap, but I'm not.

In stark contrast, within days the Russians provided radar information to the international community (which essentially rejected it), and it supported at least some of the statements by the peasants who saw the fighters going out and the airliner fluttering down.

Why is it the Russians play a more honest game than the US? To me that FACT is embarassing. Why is my government always lying and fabricating? Why are they not interested in the truth? Why are they always attempting to overthrow legitimate governments?

That's a load of hooey

 

[flogger]

I forgot to mention to you that I am a student of human behavior. I am not unique in that regard, but I see and study human behavior, both on an individual basis, and the behavior of groups of humans.

The Pentagon's propensity for deception and lies is well established, going back decades. You may not be able to perceive it, but many are.

I also forgot to tell you that some of the video taken that day and subsequently taken down, apparently, included about 30 seconds of MH17 as it slowly spiralled to earth. Just guessing, its final seconds of descent from about 2500 feet AGL.

It was amateur footage, and slightly out of focus, but the aircraft was in a spiral, and one of its engines was on fire.

So my guess is that the 2 climbing fighters took turns maybe, as 2 cats might play with a mouse. One fired AAM which started the engine fire observed, while the second maneuvered for the successful cannon fire.

Well based on the verifiable evidence to date your guess is clearly wrong. You have an anti US agenda that pervades everything you post here leading you to project the wildest and most improbable scenarios ever if you think it will bolster that cause. Believe it or not the US is not responsible for all the evils of the world. Other people do bad things completely indepently of them

 

[Fledermaus]

Wow, what a complete surprise that in this day and age a NATO group and western media would find Russia guilly of a crime for which there is no evidence. Color me totally shocked!!

No evidence? That is usually your gig.

 

[Fledermaus]

I forgot to mention to you that I am a student of human behavior. I am not unique in that regard, but I see and study human behavior, both on an individual basis, and the behavior of groups of humans.

The Pentagon's propensity for deception and lies is well established, going back decades. You may not be able to perceive it, but many are.

I also forgot to tell you that some of the video taken that day and subsequently taken down, apparently, included about 30 seconds of MH17 as it slowly spiralled to earth. Just guessing, its final seconds of descent from about 2500 feet AGL.

It was amateur footage, and slightly out of focus, but the aircraft was in a spiral, and one of its engines was on fire.

So my guess is that the 2 climbing fighters took turns maybe, as 2 cats might play with a mouse. One fired AAM which started the engine fire observed, while the second maneuvered for the successful cannon fire.

And your EVIDENCE for this is?

 

[flogger]

And your EVIDENCE for this is?

Don't you know ? Its all been 'taken down' by the sinister dark forces of the US :wink:

 

[Fledermaus]

Don't you know ? Its all been 'taken down' by the sinister dark forces of the US :wink:

Henry David AKA Thoreau72 is the master of the nebulous and fact-free accusation. In fact he has broke his normal mode by actually suggesting something that isn't entirely smoke and ghosts...

However, his "theory" is one floated by various conspiracy sights that the holes near the cockpit are cannon fire. Completely ignoring the normal load-out for soviet fighter consists of a mix that includes HE-T/HEI-T rounds... And those are very different in appearance than the AP rounds.

 

[sanman]

What the heck are you blabbing about. Where did I say anything about criminal nap prosecution of anyone. I don't think for one second Russia or the rebels they were supporting shot it down that plane down on purpose. Most likely a case of mistaken identity.

Here's a helpful hint for the future. Actually read what people post and argue against that. Not what you imagined they said in your head.

Give me a break - the whole premise of the arguments being pursued by yourself and others here is that the Russians have committed some "war crime" that the good ol' USofA would never be caught doing.

Uhh, excuse me - but IranianCivilianAirlinerDowning?

I'm saying that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

 

[Quag]

Well based on the verifiable evidence to date your guess is clearly wrong. You have an anti US agenda that pervades everything you post here leading you to project the wildest and most improbable scenarios ever if you think it will bolster that cause. Believe it or not the US is not responsible for all the evils of the world. Other people do bad things completely indepently of them

 

[Thoreau72]

Well based on the verifiable evidence to date your guess is clearly wrong. You have an anti US agenda that pervades everything you post here leading you to project the wildest and most improbable scenarios ever if you think it will bolster that cause. Believe it or not the US is not responsible for all the evils of the world. Other people do bad things completely indepently of them

You have been very much asleep at the switch Flogger. The only verifiable evidence submitted in this case by anybody at all has been submitted by the Russians, in the form of their radar records within days of the event.

That is Flogger, the US has presented NO verifiable evidence, no evidence at all. Neither has Kiev.

You should learn to pay attention mate, and you should learn to mistrust the unsubstantiated claims of known liars.

 

[braindrain]

Give me a break - the whole premise of the arguments being pursued by yourself and others here is that the Russians have committed some "war crime" that the good ol' USofA would never be caught doing.

Uhh, excuse me - but IranianCivilianAirlinerDowning?

I'm saying that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

You might need to actually read what people are posting instead of just making crap.

First of all I don't think the Russians did it. It was more likely the rebels they were supporting. Secondly I don't think it was a war crime but a tragic case of mistaken identity. I doubt the rebels knew it was a civilian plane. Finally I am well aware of the US accidentally shooting down that Iranian civilian plane.

The only thing I have been discussing here is who actually did it. Not any of the crap you just made up. So once again read the words people actually type and not just guess at what they are saying. It would prevent you from looking so silly in the future.

 

[Thoreau72]

And your EVIDENCE for this is?

Same question/burden for you Maus. What facts and evidence has the US provided in this investigation?

The answer: NONE

Just like 911, they had all the answers 1 hour after it happened, and they don't need no stinkin' investigation, thanks very much.

Or, any investigation will EXCLUDE any issues as to how and why routing and altitude for MH17 was changed as it entered Ukrainian airspace, and any investigation will be done by NATO governments.

They have provided no evidence, and you are just gullible enough to believe everything they say, even without evidence.

Brilliant analysis laddy, brilliant! :lol:

 

[Fledermaus]

You have been very much asleep at the switch Flogger. The only verifiable evidence submitted in this case by anybody at all has been submitted by the Russians, in the form of their radar records within days of the event.

That is Flogger, the US has presented NO verifiable evidence, no evidence at all. Neither has Kiev.

You should learn to pay attention mate, and you should learn to mistrust the unsubstantiated claims of known liars.

And yet the investigators find differently than you...

Isn't that a trend?

 

[Thoreau72]

You might need to actually read what people are posting instead of just making crap.

First of all I don't think the Russians did it. It was more likely the rebels they were supporting. Secondly I don't think it was a war crime but a tragic case of mistaken identity. I doubt the rebels knew it was a civilian plane. Finally I am well aware of the US accidentally shooting down that Iranian civilian plane.

The only thing I have been discussing here is who actually did it. Not any of the crap you just made up. So once again read the words people actually type and not just guess at what they are saying. It would prevent you from looking so silly in the future.

Care to hazzard a guess as to why the flight was re-routed and assigned a lower altitude, or would you prefer to deny that it was?

 

[Casper]

Give me a break - the whole premise of the arguments being pursued by yourself and others here is that the Russians have committed some "war crime" that the good ol' USofA would never be caught doing.

Uhh, excuse me - but IranianCivilianAirlinerDowning?

I'm saying that those in glass houses shouldn't throw stones.

The Americans admitted to the mistake and the Russians (Putin) never admit to making them.:doh

 

[Fledermaus]

Same question/burden for you Maus. What facts and evidence has the US provided in this investigation?

The answer: NONE

Just like 911, they had all the answers 1 hour after it happened, and they don't need no stinkin' investigation, thanks very much.

Or, any investigation will EXCLUDE any issues as to how and why routing and altitude for MH17 was changed as it entered Ukrainian airspace, and any investigation will be done by NATO governments.

They have provided no evidence, and you are just gullible enough to believe everything they say, even without evidence.

Brilliant analysis laddy, brilliant! :lol:

And your EVIDENCE is?

And 911 is a case where the investigators knew who did it because they can READ. You do know the Bad Muslims had names, right? And the names were on the manifests... Right? And those manifests could be matched to other records... Right?

 

[Thoreau72]

And yet the investigators find differently than you...

Isn't that a trend?

How strange that a gang of NATO 'investigators' would find against Russia, eh Maus?

 

[Fledermaus]

Care to hazzard a guess as to why the flight was re-routed and assigned a lower altitude, or would you prefer to deny that it was?

Is that EVIDENCE as to who did it?

 

[Fledermaus]

How strange that a gang of NATO 'investigators' would find against Russia, eh Maus?

That they are NATO means they cannot look at EVIDENCE and find differently than you?

It appears to be a trend in that investigators world wide normally find completely different things than you.