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Is Bernie Sanders a coward?

Is Bernie Sanders a coward?

  • Total voters
    85
Bucky said:
How can this man be fit to be the commander in chief?
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What's the definition of "fit"? Someone who refuses to fight a war based on principle, or someone who cynically sends someone else's kid to his death to support a corrupt, unpopular government? This country's had its fill of "fit" presidents who seem to have a knack for bringing home body bags and keeping VA bureaucrats employed. And for what? To keep up our rep for having the biggest set of balls on the planet? In the meantime, we're losing the war at home. While we were focused on nation building, our highway trust fund went broke and one in seven Americans ended up on Food Stamps.
 
Bucky said:
Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms - ABC News

Isn't a conscientious objector just another way to say you are a coward?

How can this man be fit to be the commander in chief?
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Can't join you on the coward claim, although it's not hard to lean that way.

What is remarkable is the loss of memory by socialist progressives who certainly have expended tremendous energy during previous administrations making the same coward claims.

It seems this selective dementia has a ideological genesis, a fact that further erodes any real credibility by those who are afflicted by it.

I would say it ranks right up there with the Republicans are the party of angry white people. A laughable claim given who the Democratic Party Presidential candidate are. I guess the "old, white" blather doesn't count when ideology enters the picture.
 
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I'm not even a Sanders supporter and I say this poll is dumb. If Sanders objected to the Vietnam War, then it kinda looks like he was right on that issue, no? The Vietnam War was a complete waste of human life and didn't even accomplish its objective. Kind of like the Iraq and Afghanistan wars.
 
Paleocon said:
The war in Vietnam was pretty unequivocally just. It was fought to protect the legitimate South Vietnamese government from socialist aggression./QUOTE]

In what way was the South Vietnamese government legitimate?
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ttwtt78640 said:
Hillary already has high negatives while Sanders does not. Sanders is doing extremely well and is thus without need of attacking Hillary. Attacking her would confer "victim" status to Hillary which, IMHO, would be exactly the wrong thing to do.

Sanders has succeeded in getting Hillary to tack much further left in her (latest?) policy positions - that leaves the left leaning voter with a choice of supporting the real demorat socialist or the one supported by Wall Street who is (lately?) pretending to be one.
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I agree with you for the most part. Sanders has gotten has far as he has by, in part, NOT attacking Clinton. However, I do think he could benefit from countering Clinton when he is in one-on-one debates with her. I don't necessarily think he should be negative or nasty to her, but I do think he should call her out when she's deceiving voters. For instance, in the last debate, Clinton got testy over Sanders saying she isn't a progressive. At one point, Sanders responded by reminding her that the reason he says she isn't progressive is because Clinton called herself a moderate recently. He wasn't rude or negative about it, but he got the point across. Those are the kind of moments I think Sanders could take advantage of more.

Dissatisfaction with politics as usual is the driving force in this POTUS election cycle for both the republicants and the demorats - Sanders would not benefit from attacking Hillary since the republicants are doing a fine job of that on a daily basis.
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I hadn't thought about this aspect. That's true. Clinton has an entire group of Republican candidates attacking her on a daily basis which means that they're essentially doing the dirty work for Sanders. Hm. Thanks for sharing your thoughts.
 
Opposing an unjust war that wastes the lives of thousands of American troops, even more Vietnamese citizens, over a trillion dollars of American wealth, and destroys a struggling, poor nation makes you something of a patriot.

ThePlayDrive said:
I wouldn't say this makes him a coward, but I find this really annoying too. Sanders has had SO MANY openings in debates to demolish Clinton and he has refused to take most of them. It's stupid.
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Sanders is too nice.

Calling Obama a progressive? You could tell he had to bite his tongue on his real feelings with that one. Not to mention, letting Hillary say she wasn't the establishment candidate, which was absolute bull****.
 
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digsbe said:
Yes, I believe Bernie is a coward. Not necessarily for dodging the draft, but over his policies and pacifism. He's naive, liberals like him who fear war or think diplomacy is the answer behind stopping international evils display cowardice. I think his economic policies are also pretty cowardly. I've yet to hear him address anything relating to work ethic, just a weak pity party of blame the rich and that everyone deserves free things at the expense of others. He's naive, ignorant, and the root of some of his positions in my opinion is a sense of cowardice and intellectual weakness not grounded in reality.
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I'd just remove the insults and say that what Bernie preaches sells well to people who have very little: property, money, ambition, self-reliance, or pride in accomplishment. What they do have is an entitlement mentality for themselves and a "you didn't earn that" mentality for others. He is what the Right thought Obama was: a socialist pacifist.
 
EMNofSeattle said:
So were the many people who got National Guard appointment so they could avoid going to Vietnam cowards?

Hell I know a guy who join the Air Force just so he could avoid having to serve in the jungles of Vietnam.

There is nothing wrong with applying for conscientious object or status in accordance with the laws and procedures the military has set up to evaluate such a claim. Jim Webb, a decorated combat veteran (and one of my favorite Democrats) set exactly that during the first Democratic debate.
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You should pick/sign up for the job you think you would be best at/ most capable of doing
 
Eric7216 said:
Totally disagree. While I have a great deal of respect for true conscientious objectors and pacifists I have little patience for non-pacifists who refuse to assist others in need by taking up arms. The lack of international concern and military support for Austria, Czechoslovakia, Ethiopia, Manchuria and China in the mid 1930s was shameful. As was the lack of involvement in Burundi, Rwanda, Cambodia, and other countries that have witnessed massive killings. To stop these atrocities, soldiers on the ground are needed and that leads to people dying on foreign fields. You don't stop genocides by dropping bombs from above or staying on the sidelines.
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How many wars have you served in? How many genocides have you stopped? It's pretty ****ing easy to sit from your comfortable Internet chair and talk about what "real men" should do.

We lost 58,000 Americans in Vietnam for literally no reason whatsoever. Simply flushed down the toilet. How dare you call people out for not throwing their lives away in a war that had no other purpose than to kill people.

I went to Afghanistan as a VOLUNTEER, and would never ask someone to go through that who didn't want to. You don't want someone who can't or won't fight being forced to watch your back.
 
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EMNofSeattle said:
So were the many people who got National Guard appointment so they could avoid going to Vietnam cowards?

Hell I know a guy who join the Air Force just so he could avoid having to serve in the jungles of Vietnam.

There is nothing wrong with applying for conscientious object or status in accordance with the laws and procedures the military has set up to evaluate such a claim. Jim Webb, a decorated combat veteran (and one of my favorite Democrats) set exactly that during the first Democratic debate.
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<----------This is one conservative that would vote for Jim Webb. Good man!
 
Chomsky said:
I do very much agree with you, in that if Bernie sent our boys into battle it would only be for damn good reason, when all other avenues have been expired.

He would be the 'anti-Cheney, and I'm fine with that.

After examining the article more closely, I see he voted for military force in Afghanistan and stated that America will stand militarily to defend itself and it's enemies. I think that's an appropriate tact, and a fine departure from Bush-Cheney.

I can now vote for him with clear conscience in these matters.
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Good assessment overall. I don't think I could vote for Ole Bern, but I like the fact that he is not a war hawk.
 
Fishking said:
Maybe he doesn't like to be negative and doesn't feel his ego needs to be propped up by getting into some kind of machismo shouting match.
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I am not talking about BARlatics, I am talking about a debate strategy. His is lacking in assertiveness where it is warranted.
When I watched the debate, Hillary left herself open quite a few times, and Bernie did not take advantage of that.
That is a very big difference from macho shouting. I am talking debate strategy.
 
earthworm said:
Perchance, he is attempting to be a gentleman .. a rarity today ...We do NOT need another Chris "Motor-mouth " Matthews ..Most of these TV "poli-tainers" are rude, uncivil .
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You can still be a gentleman, and also be assertive in your debate strategy.
He had many openings to score some good points for his side, but his passive nature would not let him do it.
This is Hillary Clinton we are talking about. NOT a normal, rational, sensitive, caring woman.

Take the gloves off, Bernie, or she will bury you.
 
RetiredNSmilin said:
I do not care what he did 40 years ago. I say he is a coward TODAY because in every debate I have seen him in, he lets Hillary talk over him all the time. He also does not take advantage of some openings Hillary gives him. He is way too passive in the debates, and let's Hillary dominate him. Maybe that is his kink.
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I don't see him as a coward, just not forceful. Many very brave vets I know are incredibly soft spoken in public. The loud mouth forceful ones aren't the brave ones, a lifetime record of service over monetary gain indicates a strong moral compass to me.

Bernie isn't presidential material, but he is no coward... :peace
 
notquiteright said:
I don't see him as a coward, just not forceful. Many very brave vets I know are incredibly soft spoken in public. The loud mouth forceful ones aren't the brave ones, a lifetime record of service over monetary gain indicates a strong moral compass to me.

Bernie isn't presidential material, but he is no coward... :peace
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He certainly shows the white flag when he is in a debate with Hillary. She DOMINATES the hell out of him.

but....I have to agree with you. I do not see him as a coward either. I have changed my stance.

He just needs to be much more assertive to be presidential material.

and definately more assertive when in a debate with Hillary. He needs to show more righteous indignation. He also needs to not have Hillary talk over him all the time. Normally he just shuts up and lets her have her way when she interrupts him. I see that as a weakness.
 
Bucky said:
Bernie refusing to serve his country, analogous to a father who refuses to pay child support or a citizen that refuses to pay taxes. Cowardly and quite frankly scary. Bernie Sanders's foreign policy would be disastrous to say the least.
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Sooo Dick Cheney is the biggest coward of all? I forget, just how many exemptions did Dickie get? Cheney's very aggressive foreign policies were a disaster for sure- but not because he and the other NEO- CONs were afraid to act, but rather they chose to go to war and worked very hard to convince some of us with a series of lies and twisted facts.

It is probably a very good thing for younger politicians we stopped an active draft... :peace
 
RabidAlpaca said:
How many wars have you served in? How many genocides have you stopped? It's pretty ****ing easy to sit from your comfortable Internet chair and talk about what "real men" should do.

We lost 58,000 Americans in Vietnam for literally no reason whatsoever. Simply flushed down the toilet. How dare you call people out for not throwing their lives away in a war that had no other purpose than to kill people.

I went to Afghanistan as a VOLUNTEER, and would never ask someone to go through that who didn't want to. You don't want someone who can't or won't fight being forced to watch your back.
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I am confused. Why did you volunteer to go to Afghanistan?
I responded to the comment of "sending other people's kids to die in a foreign field is shameful". You obviously disagree with that comment also since you volunteered. Why volunteer if you think that person who sent you there was shameful? Perhaps you wanted to take part in a shameful operation for the money.

You don't know me so I will ignore you ad hominens.
Some wars are more moral to me than others. I did not mention Afghanistan which I consider a stupid war with no international legality. (2,381 and counting Americans died there.) Like Vietnam. I mentioned Rwanda and Burundi. Two former UN trusteeships that the international community owed something and which Bill Clinton called his non-involvement the biggest mistake of his administration. I mentioned Cambodia. Have you gone to the killing fields and seen the towers of skulls? Read about babies being smashed against trees to save bullets? Sorry if that offends you but I stand by my comments. ESPECIALLY now that the US has a volunteer military. 2 million innocent people died in the 3 countries I mentioned.
 
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Higgins86 said:
I think he is a coward just based on the fact he wasn't willing to go to war for his country but now is running for a position which will see him send young men/women into danger.
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That position would be worth something if he was a warmonger, which anybody can tell by listening to him for two minutes that he is not.
 
Well this poll is going the opposite way the OP intended
 
Bucky said:
Bernie Sanders Applied for 'Conscientious Objector' Status During Vietnam, Campaign Confirms - ABC News

Isn't a conscientious objector just another way to say you are a coward?

How can this man be fit to be the commander in chief?
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I personally like all the CHICKENHAWKS who got us into Iraq and the fiasco that has unfolded. I really like the brave guy who shot his partner in the face while quail hunting. Real hero's these guys were yet they were able to make decisions about our military presence for 8 years. Even president moron was able to get a public flight education but avoid combat. How nice.
 
To make a moral principled stand against a lemming rush to death or glory takes more courage, not less. His detractors are severely lacking in moral fibre.
 
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