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Happy Birthday Conservative Debt Concerns

uh oh, another double babbling reply from Conservative. Now Con, your BDS is acting up again. I posted the Treasury data just like you posted the treasury data. See how your brain tricks you into calling it a "left wing site" when I post it but you think it proves your point when you post it. And Con, it shows Bush had 7 deficits over 500 billion. remember when you said he didn't have any. here, read it again.



Now click on the link you posted to see for yourself

Government - Historical Debt Outstanding - Annual 2000 - 2015

and see how debt is measured by budget years. You whine about "official data" so you don't get to use the made up conservative metric of "debt by inauguration day".

See how partisan you are, Vern. Obama signed the fiscal year 2009 budget in March 2009, Bush spent money from October to March and included in that spending was 350 billion TARP money that was repaid. Where did that repayment go, Vern? Obama knew he had a patsy in you when he blamed Bush for the deficit yet ignored when you sign the budget you accept responsibility for the results but then again that isn't the case with liberal supporters.

There really isn't a lot of intellectual honesty coming from Obama supporters who blame Bush for everything and ignore what Obama has done since taking office. You see, Vern, you blame Bush for trillion dollar deficits in 2009 when Bush was in office only 4 months of 2009 signing continuing resolutions based upon 2008 spending levels and excluding the 350 billion TAPR expenditures which of course were part of the projected deficit you blame Bush for ignoring that it was repaid but not credited to the Treasury.
 
See how partisan you are, Vern. Obama signed the fiscal year 2009 budget in March 2009, Bush spent money from October to March and included in that spending was 350 billion TARP money that was repaid. Where did that repayment go, Vern? Obama knew he had a patsy in you when he blamed Bush for the deficit yet ignored when you sign the budget you accept responsibility for the results but then again that isn't the case with liberal supporters.

There really isn't a lot of intellectual honesty coming from Obama supporters who blame Bush for everything and ignore what Obama has done since taking office. You see, Vern, you blame Bush for trillion dollar deficits in 2009 when Bush was in office only 4 months of 2009 signing continuing resolutions based upon 2008 spending levels and excluding the 350 billion TAPR expenditures which of course were part of the projected deficit you blame Bush for ignoring that it was repaid but not credited to the Treasury.

Con. very slowly, click on the Treasury link you posted and see that debt is measured by Fiscal years. Bush's last fiscal year started Oct1 2008. focus.
 
Con. very slowly, click on the Treasury link you posted and see that debt is measured by Fiscal years. Bush's last fiscal year started Oct1 2008. focus.
Budgets run front Oct to September so focus Vern. When was fiscal year 2009 budget signed and by who? Was TARP in that budget? Was TARP repaid?

AW Vern keep distorting and running from reality
 
Budgets run front Oct to September so focus Vern. When was fiscal year 2009 budget signed and by who? Was TARP in that budget? Was TARP repaid?

AW Vern keep distorting and running from reality

mmmm, that's odd, we've had this discussion numerous times. Your BDS is getting worse. Again, Bush signed the Fiscal 2009 budgets for 3 of the 12 depts. He signed half year budgets for the remaining 9. President Obama had to sign half year budgets for the 9. The discretionary budgets didn't cause the massive Bush Deficits. the GSE bailout, the war supplements, TARP, increased UE and other recession related costs with the massive collapse of revenue caused the massive Bush Deficits.

Now focus, the Treasury data you posted shows debt by fiscal years. Bush's last started Oct 1 2008
 
mmmm, that's odd, we've had this discussion numerous times. Your BDS is getting worse. Again, Bush signed the Fiscal 2009 budgets for 3 of the 12 depts. He signed half year budgets for the remaining 9. President Obama had to sign half year budgets for the 9. The discretionary budgets didn't cause the massive Bush Deficits. the GSE bailout, the war supplements, TARP, increased UE and other recession related costs with the massive collapse of revenue caused the massive Bush Deficits.

Now focus, the Treasury data you posted shows debt by fiscal years. Bush's last started Oct 1 2008

Vern, I gave you the link to the debt by day and obviously you have no idea how to access the site so let me help you. Fiscal year 2009 began in October 1, 2008 and ended on September 30, 2009. The debt on that day was 10.1 trillion dollars and there was no budget for fiscal year 2009 so Bush and Congress under Democrat control created continuing resolutions based upon 2008 funding. The fiscal year 2009 budget was signed by Obama in March 2009 and creates spending and revenue for the last half of fiscal year 2009

Now, Vern, not that you will understand it but what happened between October 1 and March 2009 that would have been part of the deficit but not part of the budget process? that's right Vern, TARP, the loan that Bush and Congress agreed upon. Any idea how much was spent between October and the time Bush left office? Want some help? $400 billion dollars. With me so far Vern? Then of course Obama signed the stimulus for shovel ready jobs the first week in February 2009 and obviously money was spent in February and March which wasn't part of the budget process. How much Vern?

Now let's take a look at the debt on October 1, 2008 which was 10.1 trillion dollars and the end of March 2009 the debt was 11.1 trillion dollars or a 1 trillion dollar deficit. With me so far, Vern? Now of that 1 trillion dollars 400 billion was TARP expenditures. Need some help on understanding that TARP was a loan to be repaid and was repaid late in fiscal year 2009. So if there was a deficit of 1 trillion dollars and 400 billion of it was spent on TARP the first 6 months of 2009 and was repaid the latter part of 2009 wouldn't that make Bush responsible for 600 billion dollars in deficits? Oh but there is more, Vern, how much of the stimulus was spent in February and March, Vern? How about maybe 100-200 billion of the 842 billion stimulus? wouldn't that reduce the Bush deficit to 400-500 billion dollars? Of course then Vern there is more, how about the GM/Chrysler takeover, the bailout of AIG, the Afghanistan supplemental expenditures.

So now, Vern, based upon the information above, please explain to us all how Bush is responsible for the 1.4 trillion you claim in deficits for 2009? Doubt you will respond or if you do it will be with some totally incoherent argument or personal attack. It is fun however making you look foolish.
 
So now, Vern, based upon the information above, please explain to us all how Bush is responsible for the 1.4 trillion you claim in deficits for 2009? Doubt you will respond or if you do it will be with some totally incoherent argument or personal attack. It is fun however making you look foolish.

Bush destroyed the economy which drove up costs and hammered revenues. That and the fact that FY 2009 is bush's budget. And fyi Con, people who post a tortured narrative like this don't get claim others will post something "totally incoherent".

Now let's take a look at the debt on October 1, 2008 which was 10.1 trillion dollars and the end of March 2009 the debt was 11.1 trillion dollars or a 1 trillion dollar deficit. With me so far, Vern? Now of that 1 trillion dollars 400 billion was TARP expenditures. Need some help on understanding that TARP was a loan to be repaid and was repaid late in fiscal year 2009. So if there was a deficit of 1 trillion dollars and 400 billion of it was spent on TARP the first 6 months of 2009 and was repaid the latter part of 2009 wouldn't that make Bush responsible for 600 billion dollars in deficits? Oh but there is more, Vern, how much of the stimulus was spent in February and March, Vern? How about maybe 100-200 billion of the 842 billion stimulus? wouldn't that reduce the Bush deficit to 400-500 billion dollars? Of course then Vern there is more, how about the GM/Chrysler takeover, the bailout of AIG, the Afghanistan supplemental expenditures.
 
Bush destroyed the economy which drove up costs and hammered revenues. That and the fact that FY 2009 is bush's budget. And fyi Con, people who post a tortured narrative like this don't get claim others will post something "totally incoherent".

That doesn't explain your claim that Obama saved us and where the shovel ready jobs for new taxpayers went that would have created more revenue. How is the 2009 budget Bush's with Obama's signature on it? I don't see the repayment of TARP anywhere in your comments but just more diversion and distortions. Very childish, Vern. Wy again are you posting in a debate forum?
 
over $18 Trillion in Debt, now well north of 100% of GDP

It topped out at 103.6 two years ago, and was down to 100.5 in Q3 2015. That's not "well north of 100%."

national_debt_as_perc_GDP_1990_2015.jpg
 
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It topped out at 103.6 two years ago, and was down to 100.5 in Q3 2015. That's not "well north of 100%."

View attachment 67196516

You must be so proud, 18.9 trillion dollar debt. What exactly did Obama propose to reduce it? You do realize that Congress controls the purse strings or didn't they teach you that in your liberal education system? Last time I checked the GOP Controlled Congress thus the purse strings and legislative process

Would love to have an answer to post 205 and exactly what spending Bush did from October 2008 to March 2009 that you blame him for the 1.4 trillion deficit left Obama and what Obama did with his responsibility as President to reduce it?
 
You must be so proud, 18.9 trillion dollar debt. What exactly did Obama propose to reduce it? You do realize that Congress controls the purse strings or didn't they teach you that in your liberal education system? Last time I checked the GOP Controlled Congress thus the purse strings and legislative process

Would love to have an answer to post 205 and exactly what spending Bush did from October 2008 to March 2009 that you blame him for the 1.4 trillion deficit left Obama and what Obama did with his responsibility as President to reduce it?

If Congress controls the purse strings, then why do you keep blaming Obama for the debt? You are doing your damnedest to have it both ways.
 
If Congress controls the purse strings, then why do you keep blaming Obama for the debt? You are doing your damnedest to have it both ways.

No, you don't understand. It's Obamas fault the debt is so high. It's the GOPs doing that the debt isn't so high. Totally logical!
 
Yes, you were born...
What is wrong with you people? The left. Are you unable to even admit that big government, high taxes, social engineering, and ever increasing debt are your lifeblood? It's what you live for. Then, it skyrockets during the Obama presidency with the help of democrats and the establishment republicans. And you are complaining?

Part of a conservative philosophy? You've got to be kidding.

And, let me say, you must be a Tea Party supporter if you are so upset about the debt. The tea Party was born out of opposition to too much spending and taxes. Welcome.
 
What is wrong with you people? The left. Are you unable to even admit that big government, high taxes, social engineering, and ever increasing debt are your lifeblood? It's what you live for. Then, it skyrockets during the Obama presidency with the help of democrats and the establishment republicans. And you are complaining?

Part of a conservative philosophy? You've got to be kidding.

And, let me say, you must be a Tea Party supporter if you are so upset about the debt. The tea Party was born out of opposition to too much spending and taxes. Welcome.

To be fair, the TP also contained a fair amount of Jesus and racism at birth.
 
To be fair, the TP also contained a fair amount of Jesus and racism at birth.

Didn't mention the dwelling on the insignificant, misleading, feigned ignorance, etc... That's more of a tactic. But, great example. Thanks.
 
If Congress controls the purse strings, then why do you keep blaming Obama for the debt? You are doing your damnedest to have it both ways.

You blame Bush for the debt that occurred with a Democrat Congress and I blame Obama for the debt occurred with a Democrat Congress. Did Obama get everything he wanted when he took office including the 2009 budget?
 
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No, you don't understand. It's Obamas fault the debt is so high. It's the GOPs doing that the debt isn't so high. Totally logical!

Post 205 explains it all but again you and other liberals want no part of the facts
 
If Congress controls the purse strings, then why do you keep blaming Obama for the debt? You are doing your damnedest to have it both ways.

For those of you who want to give Obama credit for cutting the deficit here is what he proposed for fiscal year 2016 which doesn't show someone interested in reducing the deficit and tackling the debt but simply promoting bigger and more massive central govt. How do you lower the deficit by proposing more spending?

https://www.nationalpriorities.org/analysis/2015/president-obamas-2016-budget/
 
You blame Bush for the debt he occurred with a Democrat Congress and I blame Obama for the debt occurred with a Democrat Congress. Did Obama get everything he wanted when he took office including the 2009 budget?

Bull****. You're absolving Bush of every nickel, regardless of who held Congress, and are blaming Obama for every nickel, regardless of who held Congress. Stop lying.
 
Bull****. You're absolving Bush of every nickel, regardless of who held Congress, and are blaming Obama for every nickel, regardless of who held Congress. Stop lying.

Take a reading comprehension class and tell he how i absolve Bush of any responsibility? The lying comes from partisans like you who blame Bush for leaving Obama with a deficit which is a huge lie, there was a deficit PROJECTION not a true deficit as all revenue hadn't arrived yet including the repayment of TARP

I blame Obama and liberals for incompetence, lack of civics understanding, and absolutely no understanding of the budget.
 
Take a reading comprehension class and tell he how i absolve Bush of any responsibility? The lying comes from partisans like you who blame Bush for leaving Obama with a deficit which is a huge lie, there was a deficit PROJECTION not a true deficit as all revenue hadn't arrived yet including the repayment of TARP

I blame Obama and liberals for incompetence, lack of civics understanding, and absolutely no understanding of the budget.

Sure. :roll:
 
Sure. :roll:

That's your answer? LOL, how typical when you cannot refute the actual facts and data including post 205. Wonder how much revenue was generated by those shovel ready jobs in 2009 and 2010? Now of course it was Bush's fault that the shovels never arrived at the work sites and of course it is Bush's fault for the trillion dollar deficits in 2010-2011-2012 and thus the 8.2 trillion added to the debt since Obama took office yet Obama cut the deficit in half, LOL. Do you people realize how foolish support for Obama makes you look? Guess that will be carried forward with Hillary as well as people focus on her titles held but not her lack of accomplishments in those positions
 
exactly what spending Bush did from October 2008 to March 2009 that you blame him for the 1.4 trillion deficit left Obama

It's not difficult to find this information. I've discussed it repeatedly in this forum. You just don't like the facts:

  • President Bush signed the massive spending bill under which the government was operating when Obama took office. That was Sept. 30, 2008. As The Associated Press noted, it combined "a record Pentagon budget with aid for automakers and natural disaster victims, and increased health care funding for veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan."
  • Bush also signed, on Oct. 3, 2008, a bank bailout bill that authorized another $700 billion to avert a looming financial collapse (though not all of that would end up being spent in fiscal 2009, and Obama later signed a measure reducing total authorized bailout spending to $475 billion).
  • On Jan. 7, 2009 — two weeks before Obama took office — the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued its regular budget outlook, stating: "CBO projects that the deficit this year will total $1.2 trillion."
  • CBO attributed the rapid rise in spending to the bank bailout and the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — plus rising costs for unemployment insurance and other factors driven by the collapsing economy (which shed 818,000 jobs in January alone).
  • Another factor beyond Obama’s control was an automatic 5.8 percent cost of living increase announced in October 2008 and given to Social Security beneficiaries in January 2009. It was the largest since 1982. Social Security spending alone rose $66 billion in fiscal 2009, and Medicare spending, driven by rising medical costs, rose $39 billion.

But it’s also true that Obama signed a number of appropriations bills, plus other legislation and executive orders, that raised spending for the remainder of fiscal 2009 even above the path set by Bush. By our calculations, Obama can be fairly assigned responsibility for a maximum of $203 billion in additional spending for that year.

It can be argued that the total should be lower. Economist Daniel J. Mitchell of the libertarian CATO Institute — who once served on the Republican staff of the Senate Finance Committee — has put the figure at $140 billion. — "Obama’s Spending: 'Inferno' or Not?," FactCheck.org, Jun 4, 2012​

>>what Obama did with his responsibility as President to reduce it?

Obummer cut $225 billion from TARP, as noted above, but more importantly he signed the ARRA, which helped lead us out of the morass the GOP placed us in by, as CBO calculates, adding five million jobs to the economy. Now if we can avoid sending more asses to Washington, …

Are you unable to even admit that big government, high taxes, social engineering, and ever increasing debt are your lifeblood? It's what you live for.

This is the reactionary fiction that the GOP peddles. Democrats/liberals/progressives want to use gubmint to solve problems, like ending the Great Depression, winning the Second World War, and doing something about the unjust and dysfunctional consequences of the enslavement and persecution of millions of African-Americans. We don't want gubmint to be any larger than it needs to be, we don't want to spend money unwisely, and, as I've repeatedly noted in this community, we eliminate deficits and the resulting debt created by so-called conservatives, not the other way around.

View attachment 67196532

>>The tea Party was born out of opposition to too much spending and taxes.

I'd say it was founded out of ignorance and bigotry.
 
You blame Bush for the debt that occurred with a Democrat Congress

Republicans controlled the House for the first six of Bush43's eight years, and they controlled the Senate for four, from 2003-07. Democrats had the Senate 2001-03, but only because Jeffords declared as an Independent and caucused with them. He did not seek to advance leftist causes and was not a reliable vote in support of them.

>>I blame Obama for the debt occurred with a Democrat Congress.

Republicans have held a majority in the House since 2011.

>>Did Obama get everything he wanted when he took office including the 2009 budget?

I'd say he got lots of things he didn't want, like an economy on the verge of a worldwide depression. He didn't "want" to have very large deficits, he was handed a mess that required them. Slashing spending and/or jacking up taxes would have made things worse. Policies you support placed the economy in the ER, with very serious injuries and at risk of bleeding out. Obummer had to keep the patient in the ICU until we were out of danger. Then he had to pay the hospital bill. Now you partisan/ideological hacks turn around and blame him for what happened. And you do it obnoxiously, stridently, shamelessly.

Obama … here is what he proposed for fiscal year 2016

And here's what he proposed in earlier years, what Congress authorized, and what the administration then spent:

2015 — 3.90 -- 3.97 -- 3.69
2014 — 3.77 -- 3.64 -- 3.51
2013 — 3.80 -- 3.77 -- 3.45
2012 — 3.73 -- 3.75 -- 3.54
2011 — 3.83 -- 3.65 -- 3.60
2010 — 3.55 -- 3.60 -- 3.46

Requests — 22.58
Authorizations — 22.38
Outlays — 21.25

Congress reduced Obummer's requests by $200 billion over five years, less than one percent. He then spent $1.13 trillion less than was authorized, a savings of five percent.
 
Republicans controlled the House for the first six of Bush43's eight years, and they controlled the Senate for four, from 2003-07. Democrats had the Senate 2001-03, but only because Jeffords declared as an Independent and caucused with them. He did not seek to advance leftist causes and was not a reliable vote in support of them.

>>I blame Obama for the debt occurred with a Democrat Congress.

Republicans have held a majority in the House since 2011.

>>Did Obama get everything he wanted when he took office including the 2009 budget?

I'd say he got lots of things he didn't want, like an economy on the verge of a worldwide depression. He didn't "want" to have very large deficits, he was handed a mess that required them. Slashing spending and/or jacking up taxes would have made things worse. Policies you support placed the economy in the ER, with very serious injuries and at risk of bleeding out. Obummer had to keep the patient in the ICU until we were out of danger. Then he had to pay the hospital bill. Now you partisan/ideological hacks turn around and blame him for what happened. And you do it obnoxiously, stridently, shamelessly.



And here's what he proposed in earlier years, what Congress authorized, and what the administration then spent:

2015 — 3.90 -- 3.97 -- 3.69
2014 — 3.77 -- 3.64 -- 3.51
2013 — 3.80 -- 3.77 -- 3.45
2012 — 3.73 -- 3.75 -- 3.54
2011 — 3.83 -- 3.65 -- 3.60
2010 — 3.55 -- 3.60 -- 3.46

Requests — 22.58
Authorizations — 22.38
Outlays — 21.25

Congress reduced Obummer's requests by $200 billion over five years, less than one percent. He then spent $1.13 trillion less than was authorized, a savings of five percent.
Which goes to show that he never has been serious over reducing the deficit.

Now as I recall the GOP took Congress in Jan 2015 and their first budget was 2016.

When will you stop carrying water for Obama. He isn't worth it
 
It's not difficult to find this information. I've discussed it repeatedly in this forum. You just don't like the facts:

  • President Bush signed the massive spending bill under which the government was operating when Obama took office. That was Sept. 30, 2008. As The Associated Press noted, it combined "a record Pentagon budget with aid for automakers and natural disaster victims, and increased health care funding for veterans returning from Iraq and Afghanistan."
  • Bush also signed, on Oct. 3, 2008, a bank bailout bill that authorized another $700 billion to avert a looming financial collapse (though not all of that would end up being spent in fiscal 2009, and Obama later signed a measure reducing total authorized bailout spending to $475 billion).
  • On Jan. 7, 2009 — two weeks before Obama took office — the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office issued its regular budget outlook, stating: "CBO projects that the deficit this year will total $1.2 trillion."
  • CBO attributed the rapid rise in spending to the bank bailout and the federal takeover of Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac — plus rising costs for unemployment insurance and other factors driven by the collapsing economy (which shed 818,000 jobs in January alone).
  • Another factor beyond Obama’s control was an automatic 5.8 percent cost of living increase announced in October 2008 and given to Social Security beneficiaries in January 2009. It was the largest since 1982. Social Security spending alone rose $66 billion in fiscal 2009, and Medicare spending, driven by rising medical costs, rose $39 billion.

But it’s also true that Obama signed a number of appropriations bills, plus other legislation and executive orders, that raised spending for the remainder of fiscal 2009 even above the path set by Bush. By our calculations, Obama can be fairly assigned responsibility for a maximum of $203 billion in additional spending for that year.

It can be argued that the total should be lower. Economist Daniel J. Mitchell of the libertarian CATO Institute — who once served on the Republican staff of the Senate Finance Committee — has put the figure at $140 billion. — "Obama’s Spending: 'Inferno' or Not?," FactCheck.org, Jun 4, 2012​

>>what Obama did with his responsibility as President to reduce it?

Obummer cut $225 billion from TARP, as noted above, but more importantly he signed the ARRA, which helped lead us out of the morass the GOP placed us in by, as CBO calculates, adding five million jobs to the economy. Now if we can avoid sending more asses to Washington, …



This is the reactionary fiction that the GOP peddles. Democrats/liberals/progressives want to use gubmint to solve problems, like ending the Great Depression, winning the Second World War, and doing something about the unjust and dysfunctional consequences of the enslavement and persecution of millions of African-Americans. We don't want gubmint to be any larger than it needs to be, we don't want to spend money unwisely, and, as I've repeatedly noted in this community, we eliminate deficits and the resulting debt created by so-called conservatives, not the other way around.

View attachment 67196532

>>The tea Party was born out of opposition to too much spending and taxes.

I'd say it was founded out of ignorance and bigotry.

What a very selective memory you have plus a lack of understanding of expenses. Do you know what a loan is versus an actual expense? Do you realize that the money given to GM was a loan? That TARP was a loan. If you loan someone money it is a deficit when not part of the budget but when that money is repaid it reduces that deficit. That didn't happen under Obama. TARP has been repaid but Obama recycled that payment instead of reducing the deficit. He did things he had no business doing like bailing out state expense items like teachers to payback the unions for support. He gave tax cuts with strings which was nothing more than another giveaway with no benefits. He failed to create the shovel ready jobs projected thus hurting govt. revenue. Now of course all this is Bush's fault

As for the military spending I gave you the deficit from October 1, 2008 to March 31, 2009 which obviously you ignored just like you ignored that Obama increased military spending to fund the Afghanistan surge, recycled TARP, took over GM/Chrysler, Bailed out AIG knowing that people like you would blame Bush. he was right and you are wrong in your support for as you call him Obummer.

According to people like you Obummer prevented a worldwide depression which is liberal talking points, how exactly did he do that and with what legislation? It was TARP that supposedly saved the banks and ended the recession nothing Obama did but you buy the leftwing spin and rhetoric. The question is why?
 
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