First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down plane

[Thoreau72]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Maybe it's not hyper-perceptive but hyper-paranoid that you are.

I always love how the CTers always think they are the only ones smart enough to see through the conspiracy and everyone else(the vast majority of the population) is just to dumb, scared, or close minded to figure it out.
I wonder if it is some sort of mental disorder

Paranoid? Cripes, I live in the US. Never been to Ukraine, and don't want to go. I don't care what happens there dude, it's none of my business. Why am I paranoid when commenting about a very public airliner crash?

Even on the first day, the incident was an obvious propaganda effort, a huge one. The US and Kiev hid everything. The only country to provide anything substantial was Russia.

Pretty damn obvious to me what happened, but I am a cynical bastard. :mrgreen:

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

230 people died on that flight? What's cool about it?

It's cool that they both came down on 17 July. Coincidence, or more? :shock:

 

[Montecresto]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Thanks for this update. It appeared that the pro-Russian rebels were the most likely candidate for having shot down the civilian airliner. It will be interesting to see the finished report when it comes out and then whether Russia would maintain its position of precluding prosecution of the involved parties through its Security Council veto.

I have no doubt that the Russians will use their UNSC veto to protect the separatists as the US has done so very often to protect Israel's aggressions, and UNHRC condemnations from becoming binding, and even point to that for their justification.

 

[flogger]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Well not everything, but many things.

I could tell it was a false flag, or at least a major propaganda effort, by the way it was presented by the mainstream media in the US.

Maybe I am just hyper-perceptive?

Paranoid is perhaps a better word

 

[DA60]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

To the bolded, of course. Didn't the US "accidentally" shoot down an Iranian civilian aircraft?

Good point...I forgot about that.

CNN: US Never Apologized or Admitted Shooting Down Iranian Airliner in 1988 « Antiwar.com Blog

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Iran_Air_Flight_655

 

[DA60]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

A number of airlines were using that airspace.
The referendum was bogus.

A) then they were stupid as well.

and B) Bogus? Hardly. Bogus means 'not genuine or true'. It obviously took place, so it is not 'bogus'. Less then ideal? Definitely. Then have Ukraine hold a 'proper' one that is monitored by unbiased sources? Oh...that's right. They won't because they know the vast majority of people in that region want to split from the Ukraine. And Kiev just cannot face that truth.

Kiev started the war because they refuse to honor the will of it's own people. They would have tried to do the same in the Crimea but fortunately there were Russian troops there to stop it and force Kiev to accept the will of the people and save a civil war in another part of Ukraine.

Enough said.

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Enough said.

Hardly...

Plan to take Crimea hatched before referendum says Putin

Putin admits Russian forces were deployed to Crimea

Premeditated theft of sovereign land by force ... plain and simple.

 

[JANFU]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

A) then they were stupid as well.

and B) Bogus? Hardly. Bogus means 'not genuine or true'. It obviously took place, so it is not 'bogus'. Less then ideal? Definitely. Then have Ukraine hold a 'proper' one that is monitored by unbiased sources? Oh...that's right. They won't because they know the vast majority of people in that region want to split from the Ukraine. And Kiev just cannot face that truth.

Kiev started the war because they refuse to honor the will of it's own people. They would have tried to do the same in the Crimea but fortunately there were Russian troops there to stop it and force Kiev to accept the will of the people and save a civil war in another part of Ukraine.

Enough said.

Kiev started he war- No.
Just like Georgia, how they play both sides in the Armenian conflict- Russian troops invaded Ukraine- and the referendum was bogus.

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Paranoid is perhaps a better word

Paranoid of what, exactly?

 

[flogger]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

Paranoid of what, exactly?

In my experience of responding to you ....everything Whatever crackbrained theory comes along on whatever topic you will instantly buy into it hook line and sinker no matter how improbable it may be !

 

[jamesrage]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down plane



The Dutch Safety Board draft is several hundred pages long. The final report is expected to be competed and published in the first half of October 2015.


One year on, MH17 evidence against separatists appears overwhelming

MH17 Lawsuit Filed In U.S. Court Against Ex-Separatist Leader Girkin

Russia Blocks UN Tribunal On MH17

Dutch Safety Board draft says pro-Russia rebels shot down MH17 with a Russian BUK missile killing 298

I will say the say the same thing I said almost a year ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...a-recorder-why-not-public.html#post1063612367
I could care less if the plane was shot down with a missile or with bullets. The people mostly responsible for the plane being shot down are the pilot and the idiots who said it was okay to fly a civilian plane over a war-zone.Troops have no way of distinguishing the difference between a civilian aircraft or a legitimate military target like a bomber,military transport, gun-ship, spy plane or some other legitimate military target. What ****ing idiot and airline flies a civilian plane over a war zone and expects that plane to somehow not be a target.Is there some uncrackable beacon that only civilians planes have that I do not know about so that people engaged in conflicts do not strike it down and if this sort of beacon does exist how is it kept out of the hands wishing to use it for military/spying purposes?

This whining over a aircraft that was shot down in a war zone and trying to demonize Russia is a ****ing idiotic ploy by **** sucking piece of **** neocons and other war mongering scum trying to start some ****.There are also those with their lips firmly wrapped around MIC's **** making a big fuss out of this so they can claim we gotta send military aid to Ukraine and other European countries.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

I wonder if one of the overwhelming pieces of evidence was the twitter post from a Russian separatists minutes after the plane crashed wherein he said something to the effect of, "We warned you not to fly in our air space." A tweet that was deleted just a few minutes after reports first started to come out that a passenger jet had just lost contact over the airspace in Ukraine.

It is also quite shameful the structure of the UN Security Council that a single member can veto such an investigation and there is no way to override that veto.

It is sad that we even allow Russia and China in the UN.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

I will say the say the same thing I said almost a year ago.

http://www.debatepolitics.com/consp...a-recorder-why-not-public.html#post1063612367
I could care less if the plane was shot down with a missile or with bullets. The people mostly responsible for the plane being shot down are the pilot and the idiots who said it was okay to fly a civilian plane over a war-zone.Troops have no way of distinguishing the difference between a civilian aircraft or a legitimate military target like a bomber,military transport, gun-ship, spy plane or some other legitimate military target. What ****ing idiot and airline flies a civilian plane over a war zone and expects that plane to somehow not be a target.Is there some uncrackable beacon that only civilians planes have that I do not know about so that people engaged in conflicts do not strike it down and if this sort of beacon does exist how is it kept out of the hands wishing to use it for military/spying purposes?

This whining over a aircraft that was shot down in a war zone and trying to demonize Russia is a ****ing idiotic ploy by **** sucking piece of **** neocons and other war mongering scum trying to start some ****.There are also those with their lips firmly wrapped around MIC's **** making a big fuss out of this so they can claim we gotta send military aid to Ukraine and other European countries.

:eye roll:

Russia is the poor innocent victim in their warmongering bull crap, but those dastardly neocons are the devil!

 

[jamesrage]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

:eye roll:

Russia is the poor innocent victim in their warmongering bull crap, but those dastardly neocons are the devil!

So they were not trying to drag us into a war with Russia?

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

In my experience of responding to you ....everything Whatever crackbrained theory comes along on whatever topic you will instantly buy into it hook line and sinker no matter how improbable it may be !

You are a poor judge of how people think and what motivates them, at least in my case.

Don't give up your day job. :lol:

 

[Thoreau72]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

It is sad that we even allow Russia and China in the UN.

Yeah. We shouldn't allow anybody but our friends into the UN. :roll:

 

[Rogue Valley]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

So they were not trying to drag us into a war with Russia?

How long does it take your "war on Russia" theory to maturate? It's been well over a year now since Russia invaded Ukraine.

 

[blackjack50]

First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

So they were not trying to drag us into a war with Russia?

Dude. We are already at war with Russia. Economically, clandestine war, and cyber war. Maybe it is all proxy, but you are delusional if you don't think our little game of chess with them is anything but maneuvers for war.

They aren't our ally, and they certainly are not neutral.

 

[flogger]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

You are a poor judge of how people think and what motivates them, at least in my case.

I'm more than happy to let others be the judge of that ! :lol:

 

[jamesrage]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Dude. We are already at war with Russia. Economically, clandestine war, and cyber war. Maybe it is all proxy, but you are delusional if you don't think our little game of chess with them is anything but maneuvers for war.

They aren't our ally, and they certainly are not neutral.

I never claimed they were our ally or neutral. That does not change the fact that those with their lips planted on the cocks of the military were trying to pull us into a war with Russia(When I say war I mean real war, not cyber war, war on drugs, economic war or some other stupid use of the word war). These people were saying we should arm the Ukrainians, we should help them, they were saying how some agreement 20 or 30 years ago obligates us to be involved and so on.

 

[blackjack50]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

I never claimed they were our ally or neutral. That does not change the fact that those with their lips planted on the cocks of the military were trying to pull us into a war with Russia(When I say war I mean real war, not cyber war, war on drugs, economic war or some other stupid use of the word war). These people were saying we should arm the Ukrainians, we should help them, they were saying how some agreement 20 or 30 years ago obligates us to be involved and so on.

You honestly don't understand foreign policy, and I don't know of anyone who wants us to get into a shooting war with a nuclear power. And the only way to engage in a proxy war is to arm the enemy of our enemies.

And our agreements? Which ones? And did these policies have time limits? Or not?

 

[jamesrage]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

How long does it take your "war on Russia" theory to maturate? It's been well over a year now since Russia invaded Ukraine.

Luckily most people had the sense to not listen to the neocons trying to pull us into another war.

 

[blackjack50]

First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

Luckily most people had the sense to not listen to the neocons trying to pull us into another war.

Can you please list where any neocon said we should go to war? I just want to see who you are talking about.

 

[jamesrage]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting dow...

You honestly don't understand foreign policy, and I don't know of anyone who wants us to get into a shooting war with a nuclear power. And the only way to engage in a proxy war is to arm the enemy of our enemies.

You can most certainly start a shooting war by trying to arm your enemies and enacting sanctions on a country with a decent size military.

Sen. McCain: Ukraine Needs U.S. Military Aid After Crimea Vote - Washington Wire - WSJ
The Crimean referendum on joining Russia is a “done deal,” and the U.S. should focus on pressuring Russian President Vladimir Putin and providing military assistance to Ukraine, Sen. John McCain said Sunday.
Republican Hawks Already Have a War Plan for ISIS, Ukraine, and Obama - The Daily Beast
Republicans Launch New Push To Arm Ukraine - The Daily Beast

And our agreements? Which ones? And did these policies have time limits? Or not?

President Clinton and President Obama Promised to Protect Disarmed Ukraine - The Rush Limbaugh Show
I mentioned yesterday that Bill Clinton in 1994 (and then the Obama administration in 2009, reaffirmed it) gave official diplomatic assurances to Ukraine that their borders would be safe in exchange for the Ukrainians gutting their army and completely doing away with their sizable nuclear deterrent.

This has not been reported other than the UK Daily Mail has now published an article that reminds us that that wasn't all Obama did for Ukraine. But the point is... Because the media isn't telling you, I want to stress this again. As you're watching what happened, as you watch us act outraged that Putin would do this, there were the number of signatories to this agreement. The UK, John Major and the Ukrainian prime minister. It was Boris Yeltsin for the Russian Federation, and Bill Clinton, and there was the ChiCom leader.

There were five of them, and they signed. They promised. They promised Ukraine that their borders would not be attacked, that their sovereignty would not be challenged, and that they would be considered for admission to the European Union. There was all this stuff dangling carrots if they would just gut their army and do away with their nuclear deterrent -- and Ukraine did. That agreement was reaffirmed in 2009 by Barack Obama.


Getting Rid of Nukes: The Trilateral Statement at 20 Years | Brookings Institution

 

[Beaudreaux]

Re: First on CNN: Sources say MH17 report blames Russian missile for shooting down pl

I wonder if one of the overwhelming pieces of evidence was the twitter post from a Russian separatists minutes after the plane crashed wherein he said something to the effect of, "We warned you not to fly in our air space." A tweet that was deleted just a few minutes after reports first started to come out that a passenger jet had just lost contact over the airspace in Ukraine.

It is also quite shameful the structure of the UN Security Council that a single member can veto such an investigation and there is no way to override that veto.

There is a way to override the veto. The measure (whatever it is that was vetoed) can be brought before the entire general assembly of the UN, and all it needs is a simple majority to override the veto. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Nations_Security_Council_veto_power