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Donald Trump has a 7-point healthcare plan

How is anything in there going to reduce healthcare costs? Obama's plan didn't do it. Neither does Trump's plan. "Repeal Obamacare"? Deduct insurance premiums on our taxes? Use HSAs?
Off the top of my head, allowing insurance companies to sell across state lines should allow them to reduce the costs of duplicating functions plus it will increase competition. Also, if people are using cash from HSAs to pay for medical expenses that gives them greater opportunity to negotiate reduced prices, and if it's widespread it should reduce the overhead costs of doctors if they have to process fewer insurance claims.
 
So the Donald's plan to revise the law to REQUIRE hospitals and other medical provider to be entirely transparent in their fees and costs is really necessary, yes?

You ought to really sit down and study how the system works now. There is one price--an exhorbitant one--that is shown as the actual price and that can be charged to anybody willing to pay it. Then there are myriad other charges for various insurance companies, VA, Medicaid, and Medicare. Then there is another charge for the individual who is paying out of pocket. But there is zero chance that anybody looking at a hospital bill can know what the hospital or doctor's clinic actually got paid.
People should have a choice as there are a myriad of plans that offer either flat "x"% discounts or will only pay a maximum of "y" amount. Try again.
 
Selling health insurance across state lines suddenly removes the minimum standards of coverage guidelines that American citizens now enjoy.

No, it doesn't necessarily do that at all. Did the ACA establish minimum standards? Is it national in scope?
 
No, it doesn't necessarily do that at all. Did the ACA establish minimum standards? Is it national in scope?

Yes, and yes.

Thanks for showing how little you know about this discussion.

Essential health benefits
In the context of health care in the United States, essential health benefits (EHBs) are a set of benefits that certain health insurance plans are required to cover for patients.
 
- Repeal Obamacare. “Our elected representatives must eliminate the individual mandate. No person should be required to buy insurance unless he or she wants to.”

OK, without a mandate, you can't address pre-existing conditions. And no one has to buy insurance, they just have to pay a tax for being a freeloader and expecting the rest of us to cover his medical bills should he get sick or in a bad accident.

- Repeal the McCarran-Ferguson Act, and allow the sale of insurance across state lines. “By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.”

First of all, no need for Federal legislation to allow this. Just have states disband their insurance regulatory agency and allow any and all comers.

Second, several states (e.g. Georgia) have opened up their markets and no one came. The problem is some company in N. Dakota wanting to sell in Georgia has to establish provider networks, which takes a lot of work, and to negotiate good rates a market presence or some other negotiating leverage, and if they want to do that work, complying with the laws in, say, Georgia isn't that hard.

- Allow tax payers to fully deduct health insurance premium payments in their tax returns, as businesses can. “Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?”

If it's a credit versus a deduction, OK, but otherwise it's typical of these kinds of subsidies. Person making $200k with $8,000 in premiums saves maybe $2,400 (30% marginal rate). Poor person who really NEEDS premium assistance doesn't have an income tax liability and gets a benefit of $0.00, or it's at 10% or 15% rate, so poor person saves $800-1,200. So rich gets two or three times the tax subsidy as a poor person. Stupid, subsidies (tax savings) shouldn't increase as income and wealth increase unless we want to waste a lot of money.

- Review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
- Allow all individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), and make those contributions tax-free and allow them to accumulate year after year. Make them part of an individual’s estate, able to be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty.
- Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, including clinics and hospitals.
- Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Incentivize the states to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve government resources.
- Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, generic options. “Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service.”

This all sounds fine but essentially it's just talking points, meaningless without a lot more specifics.

It's not that it's bad, but it's more of "Hey, we need a healthcare plan" and some consultant drew this up so Trump can say "I have a SEVEN POINT PLAN! And here are some buzz words you'll love!! It's the greatest plan ever!" Etc. And it carefully avoids all the real issues, which is how to pay for subsidies for the poor, and (if he does eliminate the mandate) how to address pre-existing conditions.
 
Yes, and yes.

Thanks for showing how little you know about this discussion.

Essential health benefits
In the context of health care in the United States, essential health benefits (EHBs) are a set of benefits that certain health insurance plans are required to cover for patients.

Why don't you come clean here for everybody and tell them all that you are (or were) in fact one of those insurance sales people and that a couple of years ago here you positively glowed over the ACA because you were assured business? Then your remarks would have a proper context. And can the condescension. You aren't impressing me.
 
Why don't you come clean here for everybody and tell them all that you are (or were) in fact one of those insurance sales people and that a couple of years ago here you positively glowed over the ACA because you were assured business? Then your remarks would have a proper context. And can the condescension. You aren't impressing me.

Since I sell medicare supplemental insurance the ACA had no effect on me whatsoever re: my sales commissions. Correction: It actually had a detrimental effect because it caused people who don't have medicare to call in to purchase products they could not have.

And "a couple of years ago" I was correcting blatant lies you and others were spreading about the ACA. Correcting lies /= support. You may have noticed the slew of people getting called out by non-Trump supporters regarding false statements. Saying that Obama is not a cannabal does not mean I support Obama. Saying that the "death panel" paranoia is ridiculous doesn't mean I love the ACA. That's how the truth works, as most people are quick to point out lies. Are there any other ignorant comments you'd like to make or will you stop now while still behind?
 
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I'd like to see a law passed that made employer provided health insurance illegal. Sounds kind of weird at first, but hear me out... We would still allow employers to pay a person's premiums as a tax deductible expense, but the policy stays with the employee and doesn't disappear when they change jobs. Provides complete portability between jobs, minimizes the impact of being denied coverage for pre-existing conditions just because you changed jobs and gives the individual control over what they want to pay for.

I'm not sure how that's possible without underwriting every person. I'm on my wife's employer's plan and I know what would happen if I'm underwritten separately - the first $25,000 or $30,000 or so I make each per year goes to my insurance costs because a drug I take as prescribed costs something like $1500 per month, $18k per year.... There are a lot of people like me who are in the same boat but who don't know it because they're in a big group at work and the healthy and young subsidize the sick and old in a sort of back door way.
 
Three weeks ago he was talking about how much he liked the mandate. The fact that, after the last debate, someone on his staff realized that they should google "conservative ideas about healthcare policy" doesn't give me even the slightest confidence that he means it or would stick to it.

Not to mention his "plan" is the same things many republicans have said for years that has had little enthusiasm. The Donald says it and "oh wow great plan"
 
Since I sell medicare supplemental insurance the ACA had no effect on me whatsoever re: my sales commissions. It actually had a detrimental effect because it caused people who don't have medicare to call in to purchase products they could not have.

Heh. My memory isn't as bad as you seem to think. You glowed.

And "a couple of years ago" I was correcting blatant lies you and others were spreading about the ACA. Correcting lies /= support. You may have noticed the slew of people getting called out by non-Trump supporters regarding false statements. Saying that Obama is not a cannabal does not mean I support Obama. Saying that the "death panel" paranoia is ridiculous doesn't mean I love the ACA. That's how the truth works, as most people are quick to point out lies. Are there any other ignorant comments you'd like to make or will you stop now while still behind?

I never said you supported Obama. I don't need to make ignorant comments because you're covering them in an equivalent to that of at least ten people. I never lied about the ACA. I was wrong about a counter proposal, and I apologized. Your memory doesn't seem to be as good as mine. And yes, sales across state lines will be good for the consumer if structured properly. Increased competition usually is. The other things above you mention you are falsely attributing to me. So yes, the federal government has established minimum standards, so yes, sales across state lines can be accomplished without reducing standards of health care coverage. Now go ahead and make some demeaning and snarky comment, as is your habit.
 
People should have a choice as there are a myriad of plans that offer either flat "x"% discounts or will only pay a maximum of "y" amount. Try again.

I can't find where I was arguing anything different from this. I was only describing how the system is now.
 
Donald Trump has a 7-point healthcare plan | McClatchy DC
Damn you donald, I LIKE that plan, I hate you though, still stayin home.

Wait a minute.

...- Repeal the McCarran-Ferguson Act, and allow the sale of insurance across state lines. “By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.”
- Allow tax payers to fully deduct health insurance premium payments in their tax returns, as businesses can. “Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?”
- Review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.
- Allow all individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), and make those contributions tax-free and allow them to accumulate year after year. Make them part of an individual’s estate, able to be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty.
- Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, including clinics and hospitals.
- Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Incentivize the states to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve government resources.
- Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, generic options. “Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service....

That is already law. I put money in my HSA tax-free Every Year.


...
...
...


:lamo :lamo :lamo


OOOOOHHhhhh now that is hilarious. His staffers put so little effort into this list of grab-bag items that they didn't even bother to check to see if the proposals that they had googled had ever been passed into law. :lamo

But, but, but, but, The Donald Only Hires The Best People!!!! :mrgreen: gotta wonder why The Best People seem to continually make obvious, bone-headed mistakes.
 
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I so really super-duper hope that someone trips him up on this tonight.


"Hey Donald, you've read this plan, yes?"

"Why yes, I wrote it, I wrote all of it, in fact, lots of people say it's the best plan they've ever seen, it's gonna really do great things, I actually may have invented healthcare".

"What do you think of the HSA provision"

(Donald, desperately trying to remember what "HSA" stands for) "Well, it's great, it's really great, once we get that passed, it's gonna be really great".

"Were you aware when you made that your plan that it has been US law since 2003?"

(Donald stares, still trying to figure out what an HSA is) "You're a lying dummy, you lying dummy dummy poo poo head!!!"​
 
Wait a minute.



That is already law. I put money in my HSA tax-free Every Year.


...
...
...


:lamo :lamo :lamo


OOOOOHHhhhh now that is hilarious. His staffers put so little effort into this list of grab-bag items that they didn't even bother to check to see if the proposals that they had googled had ever been passed into law. :lamo

But, but, but, but, The Donald Only Hires The Best People!!!! :mrgreen: gotta wonder why The Best People seem to continually make obvious, bone-headed mistakes.

Yeah, and you have to use it annually, he's talking about one that you can just build up and pass on to a loved one if you die. Big diff
 
I so really super-duper hope that someone trips him up on this tonight.


"Hey Donald, you've read this plan, yes?"

"Why yes, I wrote it, I wrote all of it, in fact, lots of people say it's the best plan they've ever seen, it's gonna really do great things, I actually may have invented healthcare".

"What do you think of the HSA provision"

(Donald, desperately trying to remember what "HSA" stands for) "Well, it's great, it's really great, once we get that passed, it's gonna be really great".

"Were you aware when you made that your plan that it has been US law since 2003?"

(Donald stares, still trying to figure out what an HSA is) "You're a lying dummy, you lying dummy dummy poo poo head!!!"​

The amount taxable to a beneficiary other than the estate is reduced by any qualified medical expenses for the decedent that are paid by the beneficiary within 1 year after the date of death.
Filing Form 8889

You must file Form 8889 with your Form 1040 or Form 1040NR if you (or your spouse, if married filing a joint return) had any activity in your HSA during the year. You must file the form even if only your employer or your spouse's employer made contributions to the HSA.

If, during the tax year, you are the beneficiary of two or more HSAs or you are a beneficiary of an HSA and you have your own HSA, you must complete a separate Form 8889 for each HSA. Enter “statement” at the top of each Form 8889 and complete the form as instructed. Next, complete a controlling Form 8889 combining the amounts shown on each of the statement Forms 8889. Attach the statements to your tax return after the controlling Form 8889.
https://www.irs.gov/publications/p969/ar02.html#en_US_2015_publink1000204096

CPWill, you staring a little blankly now?
 
Yeah, and you have to use it annually, he's talking about one that you can just build up and pass on to a loved one if you die. Big diff

No - that's an FSA. An HSA continues to build, you can invest it in equities, etc., you can use it as part of your retirement plan, etc. The HSA's as he describes have been part of US Law since 2003.


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No it isn't. That's an FSA. An HSA continues to build, you can invest it in equities, etc., you can use it as part of your retirement plan, and pass it on to loved ones when you die. The HSA's as he describes have been in US Law since 2003.

Ahh yes, I was thinking partially of FSA, but you pay taxes now on it if you die, he wants to rid that... so you were like wrong here friend, sorry.
 
Ahh yes, I was thinking partially of FSA, but you pay taxes now on it if you die, he wants to rid that... so you were like wrong here friend, sorry.

This was the item highlighted:

Allow all individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), and make those contributions tax-free and allow them to accumulate year after year.

That is already US Law. :lol: I do this every year.
 
Donald Trump has a 7-point healthcare plan | McClatchy DC



Damn you donald, I LIKE that plan, I hate you though, still stayin home.

- Repeal the McCarran-Ferguson Act, and allow the sale of insurance across state lines. “By allowing full competition in this market, insurance costs will go down and consumer satisfaction will go up.”

Umm, MFA prevents the feds from regulating insurance except under specific circumstances. Repealing it means Congress and the Feds can regulate insurance even more.

And insurers are *already* allowed to sell plans in multiple states, as long as the plans comply with the regulations in those states. IOW, Trump's plan is to "change" the law to work the way it already works.

- Allow tax payers to fully deduct health insurance premium payments in their tax returns, as businesses can. “Businesses are allowed to take these deductions so why wouldn’t Congress allow individuals the same exemptions?”

This is a good idea. It's also a pretty old idea and rejected by the GOP and rightwingers.

- Review basic options for Medicaid and work with states to ensure that those who want healthcare coverage can have it.

Meaningless drivel. In DC, "review" and "work with" are code for "do nothing"

- Allow all individuals to use Health Savings Accounts (HSAs), and make those contributions tax-free and allow them to accumulate year after year. Make them part of an individual’s estate, able to be passed on to heirs without fear of any death penalty.

Not a horrible idea but does nothing to address the rising cost of health care or insurance

- Require price transparency from all healthcare providers, including clinics and hospitals.

Umm, ACA already did this

- Block-grant Medicaid to the states. Incentivize the states to seek out and eliminate fraud, waste and abuse to preserve government resources.

"Elminate fraud and waste...." - more code for "do nothing"

- Remove barriers to entry into free markets for drug providers that offer safe, generic options. “Congress will need the courage to step away from the special interests and do what is right for America. Though the pharmaceutical industry is in the private sector, drug companies provide a public service.”

A liberal idea.
 
Ahh yes, I was thinking partially of FSA, but you pay taxes now on it if you die, he wants to rid that... so you were like wrong here friend, sorry.

So I looked that up, and it turns out no you don't. If it passes to a spouse, there is no change and no tax. If it passes to a non-spouse, there is no tax, but it ceases being an HSA (and changes to a simple investment account), and so they pay taxes on it from then as part of their income taxes.
 
Umm, MFA prevents the feds from regulating insurance except under specific circumstances. Repealing it means Congress and the Feds can regulate insurance even more.

And insurers are *already* allowed to sell plans in multiple states, as long as the plans comply with the regulations in those states. IOW, Trump's plan is to "change" the law to work the way it already works.



This is a good idea. It's also a pretty old idea and rejected by the GOP and rightwingers.



Meaningless drivel. In DC, "review" and "work with" are code for "do nothing"



Not a horrible idea but does nothing to address the rising cost of health care or insurance



Umm, ACA already did this



"Elminate fraud and waste...." - more code for "do nothing"



A liberal idea.

It really does look like they just googled up "healthcare reform ideas", and smashed a quick list together, so as to avoid getting mocked any more about the "Lines Around The States" plan. :lol: man. this election. If you wrote it as a novel, people would assume it was satire. :lol:
 
No, the GOP establishment presents SOME of those things but not all of those things, and it's in various plans.

Plan A might have point 2, 5, and 7
Plan b might have a point not mentioned, 1, and point 6
and so on and so forth. Basically the GOP establishment has been kicking around a multitude of plans: and many of them are indeed worse than the ACA.

Actually, the GOP has been strongly opposed to several of his points. Most notable the one about drug companies.

Remember? It was (and still is) the GOP who opposes letting the govt negotiate prices with the drug companies.
 
Selling health insurance across state lines suddenly removes the minimum standards of coverage guidelines that American citizens now enjoy.

Even if insurers were allowed to sell plans across state lines, they would refuse to do so for the reasons you already laid out (it's too complicated and risky for them)
 
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