Does your morality and ethics define your political beliefs?

[johndylan1]

Speaking for myself i've always believed in helping those who cannot help themselves.
I'm a Social Democrat in which I believe in a mixed socialist and capitalist market with an extensive welfare system.
I think it is society and governments job to help the vulnerable and 'weak'.

I would also define myself as quite a moral human being. I'm very anti discrimination of any kind and regularly attend marches in favour of human rights and equality as well as against racism and fascism.

I would like to know your opinion on this matter and whether or not you believe your ethical philosophy directly effects your political philosophy!


(Written at 3am so apologies for anything poorly written.)

Yes it does. When asked I like to say I am not conservative or liberal, I am a moralist. I am also very conservative / libertarian.

 

[RGacky3]

you are free to that opinion but the very simple answer is, it still isnt my PERSONAL ethical statement.

thank you for proving my point. As a politician that will guide me more than anything. Not my personal ethics.

So again my personal ethics will take a back seat or may never play a role at all.

Obviously, just like your enimal rights ethics don't play a role in economic issues .... the point is ANY politicla decision in the end comes down to ethics, personal ethics are by definition ethics which only apply to you, and your moral character, however how you act in civic society is also driven by ethics.

If it isn't give me an example of a political decision that doesn't involve ethics ...

 

[AGENT J]

Obviously, just like your enimal rights ethics don't play a role in economic issues ....

1.)the point is ANY politicla decision in the end comes down to ethics, personal ethics are by definition ethics which only apply to you, and your moral character, however how you act in civic society is also driven by ethics.

2.) If it isn't give me an example of a political decision that doesn't involve ethics ...

1.) and again this is simply and factually not true

2.) me and many others already have my personal ethics, which is what we have been discussing, doesn't come into play for many many things.

Many of my decisions will be based on laws and rights and not my personal ethics.

 

[RGacky3]

1.) and again this is simply and factually not true

2.) me and many others already have my personal ethics, which is what we have been discussing, doesn't come into play for many many things.

Many of my decisions will be based on laws and rights and not my personal ethics.

What is and is not a right is an ETHICAL issue.

Whether or not a law is good or not is an ETHICAL issue.

 

[anatta]

No. I look for the best way to govern, since this is a hyperpartisan enviornment, I eschew any ideological approach

 

[anatta]

Marching didn't end slavery, a long brutal war did.

but the March on Washington, in 1963 help raise public consciousness, got JFK to fianlly push for civil rights legislation.

 

[AGENT J]

1.)What is and is not a right is an ETHICAL issue.

2.)Whether or not a law is good or not is an ETHICAL issue.

1.)nope they are not my personal ethics, they just are rights that i will use to guide me.
2.) nobody talking about subjective opinions of good or bad and its meaningless to our discussion

the fact remains many of my decisions will be based on laws and rights and not my personal ethics.

I have no clue way this fact bothers you but you have ZERO power to change it.

My personal ethics will at best be secondary and not be involved in many of decisions.

 

[RGacky3]

1.)nope they are not my personal ethics, they just are rights that i will use to guide me.
2.) nobody talking about subjective opinions of good or bad and its meaningless to our discussion

the fact remains many of my decisions will be based on laws and rights and not my personal ethics.

I have no clue way this fact bothers you but you have ZERO power to change it.

My personal ethics will at best be secondary and

Rights, i.e. what is and is not a right IS an ethical issue.

Tell me one political issue that isn't based on ethics. Name and issue.

 

[AGENT J]

Rights, i.e. what is and is not a right IS an ethical issue.

2.)Tell me one political issue that isn't based on ethics. Name and issue.

1.) nope not a personal ethical issue
2.) see now you are trying to change the goal posts a little by dropping "personal" from ethics and saying political issues in general but the answer is easy.

joe biden is personally, morally and ethically pro-life, yet as a politician he is fine with pro-choice because he is following what he believes to be the rules of government, against his personal morals.

this is not a hard concept, my original post, post

after your post:

BTW, its IMPOSSIBLE to not have your political beliefs defined by your ethics, since your ethics are the ground for what political goals or end's one has.

this is simply factually not true, many people including myself have different politic views and goals than their own personal ethics, believes, morals and opinions.


In fact the best leaders and politicians understand they need to have an amount of separation.

THinking my personal morals and ethics need to be forced on the country is ass backwards and goes against what this country is.

nothing has changed, this fact remains, again not sure why this fact is hard to understand

 

[RGacky3]

1.) nope not a personal ethical issue
2.) see now you are trying to change the goal posts a little by dropping "personal" from ethics and saying political issues in general but the answer is easy.

joe biden is personally, morally and ethically pro-life, yet as a politician he is fine with pro-choice because he is following what he believes to be the rules of government, against his personal morals.

this is not a hard concept, my original post, post

So Joe Biden thinks that he personally would not support an abortion in his family, yet he believes that it is ok for someone else to have one, that's a moral distinction, i.e. that people in society should have a right to decide for themselves whether or not they should have an abortion, he obviously doesn't think it's murder, because if he did, he woudl be against it, for moral reasons.

I'm dropping "personal" because that wasn't the question, the question is "does your morality and ethics define your political beliefs." Not does you're personal ethics, unless there is a difference ... what is the difference between you're "personal" ethics and your opinions on ethical things?

nothing has changed, this fact remains, again not sure why this fact is hard to understand

Look, I'm going to just go by your sig.

Pro-Choice .... That's an ethical issue, does a woman have a right over what happens in her body? Even if there is a seperate life in there? Or does that life have rights in itself.
Pro-Human Rights .... also ethical, what are and are not human rights is an ethical question.
Pro-Gun .... Do citizens have a right to hold arms? That's an ethical question, is it morally right for governments to restrict them or not?
Pro Equal rights .... That's DEFINATELY a moral question.

But explain to me what the difference is between "personal ethics" and "ethics" when you use them.

 

[AGENT J]

1.)So Joe Biden thinks that he personally would not support an abortion in his family, yet he believes that it is ok for someone else to have one, that's a moral distinction, i.e. that people in society should have a right to decide for themselves whether or not they should have an abortion, he obviously doesn't think it's murder, because if he did, he woudl be against it, for moral reasons.

2.)I'm dropping "personal" because that wasn't the question, the question is "does your morality and ethics define your political beliefs." Not does you're personal ethics, unless there is a difference ...

3.) what is the difference between you're "personal" ethics and your opinions on ethical things?



Look, I'm going to just go by your sig.

4.) Pro-Choice .... That's an ethical issue, does a woman have a right over what happens in her body? Even if there is a seperate life in there? Or does that life have rights in itself.
5.)Pro-Human Rights .... also ethical, what are and are not human rights is an ethical question.
6.)Pro-Gun .... Do citizens have a right to hold arms? That's an ethical question, is it morally right for governments to restrict them or not?
7.) Pro Equal rights .... That's DEFINATELY a moral question.

8.) But explain to me what the difference is between "personal ethics" and "ethics" when you use them.

1.) translation his PERSONAL ethics different from his political decisions
2.) but the factually wrong statement that you made said YOUR. You said "its IMPOSSIBLE to not have your political beliefs defined by your ethics, since your ethics are the ground for what political goals or end's one has."

that statement is factually wrong as i pointed out which this whole conversation is about

3.) its HUGE what i do personal is for me not others and i may judge myself for those ethics and not judge others

4.) nope my PERSONAL ethics could be different from my political views on this and many peoples are as just pointed out
5.) yes this is true, and HUMAN rights arent all legal rights and laws, again they are SEPARATE
6.) nope again my personal ethics may differ from the rights already established. Many people would personally and ethically never have a gun but politically are fine with others having it
7.) nope thats definitely not, many people still feel woman and minorities arent equal but are ok with the law treating them equal, same thing with equal rights for gays. once again many people have separate and different ethics between personal and political

8.) already did in the examples above

sorry you will never be able to change the fact that personal ethics, morals, opinions and views can differ from political ones, this is just basic common sense and a fact that will never change

 

[Jayhawker30]

Say, wouldn't it be a part of your morality to not let your morality and ethics define your political beliefs?

 

[RGacky3]

1.) translation his PERSONAL ethics different from his political decisions
2.) but the factually wrong statement that you made said YOUR. You said "its IMPOSSIBLE to not have your political beliefs defined by your ethics, since your ethics are the ground for what political goals or end's one has."

that statement is factually wrong as i pointed out which this whole conversation is about

3.) its HUGE what i do personal is for me not others and i may judge myself for those ethics and not judge others

4.) nope my PERSONAL ethics could be different from my political views on this and many peoples are as just pointed out
5.) yes this is true, and HUMAN rights arent all legal rights and laws, again they are SEPARATE
6.) nope again my personal ethics may differ from the rights already established. Many people would personally and ethically never have a gun but politically are fine with others having it
7.) nope thats definitely not, many people still feel woman and minorities arent equal but are ok with the law treating them equal, same thing with equal rights for gays. once again many people have separate and different ethics between personal and political

8.) already did in the examples above

sorry you will never be able to change the fact that personal ethics, morals, opinions and views can differ from political ones, this is just basic common sense and a fact that will never change

You keep throwing around the fact that PERSONAL ethics arnt invovlved (that wasn't the question, the question was does your morality and ethics define your political beliefs), but you never actually devine what personal ethics are, or how they are diferrent from regular ethics ... what do you mean when you say "personal ethics?"

 

[AGENT J]

1.)You keep throwing around the fact that PERSONAL ethics arnt invovlved (that wasn't the question,

2.) the question was does your morality and ethics define your political beliefs), but you never actually devine what personal ethics are, or how they are diferrent from regular ethics ... what do you mean when you say "personal ethics?"

1.)what imaginary question are you referring to. YOU made a statement and you didnt quote anybody
I pointed out the fact your statement was 100% false

2.) which is the same question lol and actually i did many times with many examples, reread the thread

sorry, again your statement was factually wrong and you will never be able to change the fact that personal ethics, morals, opinions and views can differ from political ones/views, this is just basic common sense and a fact that will never change

examples were already given

 

[RGacky3]

1.)what imaginary question are you referring to. YOU made a statement and you didnt quote anybody
I pointed out the fact your statement was 100% false

2.) which is the same question lol and actually i did many times with many examples, reread the thread

sorry, again your statement was factually wrong and you will never be able to change the fact that personal ethics, morals, opinions and views can differ from political ones/views, this is just basic common sense and a fact that will never change

examples were already given

1 the Question in the title of this thread ....

2. No it isn't the same question since the word "personal" wasn't in the question.

But go ahead Tell me what the difference is between PERSONAL ethics and jsut ethics ....

Or give me an exampel of one political position that doesn't involve ethics.

If you already gave me and example which post was it.

 

[AGENT J]

1 the Question in the title of this thread ....

2. No it isn't the same question since the word "personal" wasn't in the question.

3.) But go ahead Tell me what the difference is between PERSONAL ethics and jsut ethics ....

4.)Or give me an example of one political position that doesn't involve ethics.

5.) If you already gave me and example which post was it.

1.) yes and ive given that answer already, the answer for me like many people is no
2.) yes it is since the question contains the word YOUR, lol if your doesnt mean MINE as in my personal morality and ethics what could it possible mean?
3.) never said there was a difference between them i said my personal ethics and my political decision are different. Did you forget YOUR 100% false statment already?
this is what you said:
BTW, its IMPOSSIBLE to not have your political beliefs defined by your ethics, since your ethics are the ground for what political goals or end's one has.
4.) again already did many times one was the Biden example
5.) just read back the last couple


again your statement was 100% factually wrong, nothing will change that and my morals and ethics factually will not define my political beliefs

what fact arent you getting? why is this basic common sense and fact so hard to understand?

 

[RGacky3]

1.) yes and ive given that answer already, the answer for me like many people is no
2.) yes it is since the question contains the word YOUR, lol if your doesnt mean MINE as in my personal morality and ethics what could it possible mean?
3.) never said there was a difference between them i said my personal ethics and my political decision are different. Did you forget YOUR 100% false statment already?
this is what you said:
BTW, its IMPOSSIBLE to not have your political beliefs defined by your ethics, since your ethics are the ground for what political goals or end's one has.
4.) again already did many times one was the Biden example
5.) just read back the last couple


again your statement was 100% factually wrong, nothing will change that and my morals and ethics factually will not define my political beliefs

what fact arent you getting? why is this basic common sense and fact so hard to understand?

The Biden example isn't an example ... if he thinks abortion is wrong, but he doesn't think it should be enforced by the state ... that IS a moral decision, it's based on the ethical concept of individual autonomy, there is a reason he has that position, he believes that the government doesn't have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body ... that's a MORAL CONCEPT.

You're pro-choice ... why? You're pro-gun? Why? Pro-equal rights? .... Common, ALL OF THESE are ethical questions ...

I'ts not hard to understand it's just wrong ...

 

[AGENT J]

1.)The Biden example isn't an example ...
2.)if he thinks abortion is wrong, but he doesn't think it should be enforced by the state ... that IS a moral decision, it's based on the ethical concept of individual autonomy
3.) there is a reason he has that position, he believes that the government doesn't have the right to tell a woman what to do with her body ... that's a MORAL CONCEPT.
4.) You're pro-choice ... why?
5.) You're pro-gun? Why?
6.) Pro-equal rights? ....
7.) Common, ALL OF THESE are ethical questions ...
8.) I'ts not hard to understand it's just wrong ...

1.) no matter your opinion it factually is a perfect and factual example
2.) wrong his moral position is that its wrong. His political belief is its not for him to decided for others
3.) nope that his POLITICAL BELIEF, his MORAL BELIEVE is that its wrong
4.) Im prochoice because the facts are its the only way to get close to equal and politically thats whats rights. Morally i have a little different view. See factually different.
5.) im pro-gun because of the constitution and it drives my political belief. Morally i feel differently, id restrict it more if i went on my morals
6.) again, our country and constitution is based one this and it drives my political beliefs, now in this case my morals happen to match up
7.) nope factually wrong as i just proved they in fact can be separate
8.) facts disagree with you and prove you wrong . . again

bottom line is my morals and political belifes can be and in fact are different in cases and your statment is wrong, this fact will never change and you havent offered anything factual that even comes close

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

 

[RGacky3]

1.) no matter your opinion it factually is a perfect and factual example
2.) wrong his moral position is that its wrong. His political belief is its not for him to decided for others
3.) nope that his POLITICAL BELIEF, his MORAL BELIEVE is that its wrong
4.) Im prochoice because the facts are its the only way to get close to equal and politically thats whats rights. Morally i have a little different view. See factually different.
5.) im pro-gun because of the constitution and it drives my political belief. Morally i feel differently, id restrict it more if i went on my morals
6.) again, our country and constitution is based one this and it drives my political beliefs, now in this case my morals happen to match up
7.) nope factually wrong as i just proved they in fact can be separate
8.) facts disagree with you and prove you wrong . . again

bottom line is my morals and political belifes can be and in fact are different in cases and your statment is wrong, this fact will never change and you havent offered anything factual that even comes close

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

1. No it isn't a good example, and I explianed why.
2. THat belief, that its not for him to decide for others ... IS A MORAL POSITION!!!!
3. political beliefs are based on moral judgements.
4. equality, i.e. the desire for equality is an ethical judgement, a moral judgement.
5. The constitution is based on ethical principles, the right to life liberty and so on, all are moral judgements.
6. Again our constitution is full of ethical judgements and it's BASED on ethical judgements, also the concept that the constitution should be the final authority is an ethical judgement.


The facts are there ... there isn't a political opinoin that isn't rooted in some moral judgement.

 

[AGENT J]

1. No it isn't a good example, and I explianed why.
2. THat belief, that its not for him to decide for others ... IS A MORAL POSITION!!!!
3. political beliefs are based on moral judgements.
4. equality, i.e. the desire for equality is an ethical judgement, a moral judgement.
5. The constitution is based on ethical principles, the right to life liberty and so on, all are moral judgements.
6. Again our constitution is full of ethical judgements and it's BASED on ethical judgements, also the concept that the constitution should be the final authority is an ethical judgement.


7.)The facts are there ... there isn't a political opinoin that isn't rooted in some moral judgement.

1.) its a perfect example and your explanation factually failed
2.) its his political position
3.) factual false and not always true
4.) factual false and not always true
5.) factually false and not true
6.) again see#5
7.) yes they are and you keep ignoring them, facts prove you wrong as they have been doing and your origingal statment is still factually wrong :shrug:

i will ask you AGAIN

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

 

[RGacky3]

1.) its a perfect example and your explanation factually failed
2.) its his political position
3.) factual false and not always true
4.) factual false and not always true
5.) factually false and not true
6.) again see#5
7.) yes they are and you keep ignoring them, facts prove you wrong as they have been doing and your origingal statment is still factually wrong :shrug:

i will ask you AGAIN

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

1. How did it fail.
2. based on ethical judgements.
3. How is it false, give me an example.
4. how is it false?
5. How?

YOu have no arguemtnss here ... just claims ....

 

[AGENT J]

1. How did it fail.
2. based on ethical judgements.
3. How is it false, give me an example.
4. how is it false?
5. How?

YOu have no arguemtnss here ... just claims ....

translation: you have ZERO facts to support your already proven false claim

the facts and examples already proved your statement false, its funny that you think your opinion trumps facts.

you can tell yourself whatever you wish and repeat any lie you want but facts prove you wrong and this is way you keep dodging and running from my request.

ill ask AGAIN.

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

who wants to bet the request is dodged again?

 

[RGacky3]

translation: you have ZERO facts to support your already proven false claim

the facts and examples already proved your statement false, its funny that you think your opinion trumps facts.

you can tell yourself whatever you wish and repeat any lie you want but facts prove you wrong and this is way you keep dodging and running from my request.

ill ask AGAIN.

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

who wants to bet the request is dodged again?

The fact is that you can't produce a single political position that doesn't have ethics as his base.

The fact is that all politics are the way society SHOULD be run, what RIGHTS people have, and so on, these are all ethical quesetions.

 

[AGENT J]

1.)The fact is that you can't produce a single political position that doesn't have ethics as his base.

2.)The fact is that all politics are the way society SHOULD be run, what RIGHTS people have, and so on, these are all ethical quesetions.

BOOM! and its dodged again i called ait and thats what i thought!
you got nothing, not ONE fact to support you

1.) repeating this lie doesnt make it true at this point ive given you like 6, ignoring them doesnt mean they didnt happen
2.) they can be but dont have to be

lets reflect on the facts
fact is your statments was 100% wrong as proven already


ill ask AGAIN.

let me know when you have one single fact that supports your proven wrong statement . . one

who wants to bet the request is dodged AGAIN?

 

[loader]

Speaking for myself i've always believed in helping those who cannot help themselves.

Often happen that help destroy the helpless desire to help themselves. For example: African economist and author Dambisa Moyo, writes in its book "Dead Aid" that the American food aid Africa, only worsens the situation on the continent.
Also, do not forget that the aid is often humiliating for the person to whom you want to help and causes an unexpected reaction of rejection and aggression.
And most importantly, not everyone who needs help, deserve of assistance. We need to develop clear criteria for assistance. In the first place, should get help children and the elderly. There seems clear. But the kids have parents, and old people have children. Does this mean that we should only help children without parents and lonely old men?
Indeed, the complex ethical and moral issue.