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Does a Trump win save democracy?

Bugsy said:
So you've never heard of The Twitter Files?

Ok...examine them.
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You got a link to what you specifically want me to look at? This would be a good blog article :)
 
You. said:
Like I said in the OP. I think the lack of faith in the system is more dangerous for democracy than one term by one bad person.
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Let me translate that sentence for other viewers to interpret what you just said:
There IS a lack of faith in the system despite every analysis of the 2020 election having deemed it one of the most secure ever (google it, it's a fact) but the narrative is still being pressed by Rightwing media which has caused this lack of faith, and THAT is supposed to be MORE dangerous than one term by one bad person? Why not just say the one term was by Trump? AND HIS BELIEF OF A STOLEN ELECTION.
IN short, you just said Trump is LESS dangerous to democracy and that our lack of faith in elections (again, perpetrated by Rightwing media) is MORE dangerous to democracy

Damn, that is some logic there :rolleyes:
 
PoliSciPulse said:
Specifically, the ones that make the news. Here's the standard in specific: During the Obama election(s), there was news going around about the Black Panthers scaring voters by brandishing weapons. I would say if Trump's cadre, or "Antifa" (which isn't really an organization in the sense of officially existing last I knew) or BLM (which -is- an organization) did the same, that would be the "voter suppression" I would be talking about.

Also, Republicans don't distance themselves from their political extremes. They use them to their advantage. It's how the TEA Party became part of the GOP, which led to the Trump takeover of the GOP. GOP leaned into Trump in 2016 because it saw the political benefit. Now, he's useful to be kept an arm's length.

Democrats did the same thing with BLM, ANFITA, and Occupy Wall Street (Remember them?). Except the problem is, with at least Occupy Wall Street, was if these movements wanted to influence government, they had to go the way of the TEA Party. Occupy, especially, seemed to believe that it had its own government and could play by a unofficial (and at times Constitutionally illegal -- they wanted to punish bankers for doing what was legal at the time, remember?) set of rules. BLM was absolutely fine until it splintered and you have like the regular BLM and the extreme BLM, and no Democrat I know wants to go the route of the extreme BLM -- which means they have to distance themselves from BLM as a whole since the extreme wing is the most visible. Then, you have ANTIFA, which Biden discarded as "an idea.," if you remember. If you read between the lines, if ANTIFA is "an idea," then you can't really negotiate with them or speak with them because they don't exist in a form that you're able to talk to. Yes, it minimized some of the misbehavior, but it also delegitimized them as an organization that he could approach in the same breath.
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No republican I know supports any supremacists. That includes Trump by his own words.
Minimized some behavior? They egged BLM and ANTIFA on! If you wanna discuss this, please get reacquainted with something commonly known as "truth".
 
You. said:
Im guessing there are a bunch foreign trolls and AI bots here? Im just a regular American troll 😂
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Oh lord, here we go again, someone who gets their shorts into a knot because other contributors on here don't see things his way.
 
SNOWFLAKE said:
Oh lord, here we go again, someone who gets their shorts into a knot because other contributors on here don't see things his way.
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😂 I thought that was you?

I’m mostly a contrarian smart(dumb)ass
 
Bugsy said:
Contrarian?
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My natural tendency is to think about most things from the side that’s different than what was presented (even when I might agree)

It’s more fun to debate than to hate or smile and nod
 
You. said:
I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?
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No matter who wins, the other side will claim the election was rigged. That's just where we are now.

The way the Trump Haterz go on about Trump becoming a dictator and destroying democracy, is itself far more acidic to democracy than Trump could ever be IMO.
 
eman623 said:
No matter who wins, the other side will claim the election was rigged. That's just where we are now.

The way the Trump Haterz go on about Trump becoming a dictator and destroying democracy, is itself far more acidic to democracy than Trump could ever be IMO.
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If Trump becomes President again, he will very likely rule as a dictator. The Congress needs to pass Senator Lee's Article One Bill to limit the power of the President.
www.lee.senate.gov

Sen. Lee Introduces ARTICLE ONE Act to Reclaim Congressional Power

Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) introduced the ARTICLE ONE Act, a bill that would reclaim significant legislative powers delegated to the executive branch by the National Emergencies Act of 1976.
www.lee.senate.gov www.lee.senate.gov
 
You. said:
I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?
Click to expand...
 
You. said:
I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.

First premise: Voting IS a faith-based endeavor. Voters have to have faith that the system is fair. By this I mean that the vast majority of voters have zero proof that their vote was recorded as they intended it to be cast. It’s basically a black box system for most people. Push button and have faith in the system after that.

Second premise: Election deniers belief that the system is rigged will only be exacerbated by a Biden win. Democrats would be unhappy but will likely accept the results.

I’m sure some deniers would claim a Trump win was 5-D chess by the cabal to trick conservatives the system isn’t rigged, but wouldn’t some have to begin to believe in the system again?
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Your opener is correct. The erosion of faith in the voting system is a bigger problem than any one person.
Voting is faith based, but, it is based upon what happens surrounding the voting process.
Election deniers belief that the system is rigged. Let's look at that. There were numerous changes, many in the last few months or weeks prior to the 2020 voting. Those changes create doubt. They look suspicious. In some cases the people who are supposed to set the rules, didn't set the changes. That's a problem.
You have made claims against Trump supporters but why do you think that happened? In fact the election deniers started with Trump election where many on the left immediately began declaring Trump an illegitimate President. Many in government on the left, including Chuck Schumer, Maxine Waters, Hakeem Jeffries, and even Hillary Clinton. These are just a few well known democrats. Stacy Abrams claimed the GA governors race was stolen from her and she was supported by many well known democrats.
And these claims by democrats of stolen elections isn't just in 2016, they have gone on for decades.
So the hypocritical left is once again casting stones from inside their own glass house.
The real shame is the left media has pushed these same claims.
gop.com

WATCH: 12 Minutes Of Democrats Denying Election Results

Democrats have a lengthy history of refusing to accept the results of elections they lost.
gop.com gop.com
www.aei.org

Being a Democrat Means Never Having to Accept an Election Loss

Before former President Donald Trump refused to accept an election he clearly lost, whipping up a series of conspiracy theories and idiotic lawsuits and stoking deadly riots at the U.S. Capitol, there were the Democrats. They literally have not accepted a single presidential election loss this...
www.aei.org www.aei.org
www.politico.com

What Happened to the Democrats Who Never Accepted Bush’s Election

The 2004 vote-fraud conspiracy movement never really died. What does that mean for Trump’s true believers—and America?
www.politico.com www.politico.com
 
Brack said:
If Trump becomes President again, he will very likely rule as a dictator. The Congress needs to pass Senator Lee's Article One Bill to limit the power of the President.
www.lee.senate.gov

Sen. Lee Introduces ARTICLE ONE Act to Reclaim Congressional Power

Sen. Mike Lee (R-UT) introduced the ARTICLE ONE Act, a bill that would reclaim significant legislative powers delegated to the executive branch by the National Emergencies Act of 1976.
www.lee.senate.gov www.lee.senate.gov
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Thanks for proving my point. Drip, drip, drip goes the acid.

Repealing the NEA would not stop Trump if he were going to be a dictator.
 
eman623 said:
Thanks for proving my point. Drip, drip, drip goes the acid.

Repealing the NEA would not stop Trump if he were going to be a dictator.
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It would make it harder for him. Trump was able to use the National Emergencies Act to use the power of the purse to build more border wall. He will use that bad law again, if he becomes president again.
 
Brack said:
It would make it harder for him. Trump was able to use the National Emergencies Act to use the power of the purse to build more border wall. He will use that bad law again, if he becomes president again.
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More border wall?!

OMG, DICTATOR!!!! :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO: :ROFLMAO:
 
Brack said:
Biden didn't do the big campaign rallies in 2020 due to the pandemic.
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I am referring to the states that used pandemic porn to rush into unsecure mass mailout balloting in the lead up to the election without even taking the time to clean up their voting rolls. That some states like Arizona and Colorado already had mass mailout baloting does not remove or excuse the rush by swing states in the 2020 election.
Brack said:
Hand recounts of the paper ballots confirmed that Biden won
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Baloney. Counting ballots that may or may not be fraudulent is not a confirmation of a legitimate win. I only trust the counts in states with largely traditional in person voting, traditional absentee balloting, and solid voter ID bills
 
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Along Came Jones said:
Contrary to widespread fearmongering, there is no threat to our democracy. What a Trump election win will likely evoke is a fresh round of asserting an imperial presidency which will be thwarted by the legislative and judicial branches, as well as undermining by the nongovernmental institutions upon which our democracy relies.
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Not with the gutting of the entire civil service, which is what's in the plans.
Did you catch the Heritage Foundation's big idea?

PS: Gutting the civil service is a classic dictator move.
 
You. said:
I think that an erosion of faith in voting is a bigger threat to democracy than any one term by any one person.
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OK. And where did this "erosion of faith" come from? Was there any erosion of faith in US elections prior to Trump running in 2016? I certainly do not recall any. I know the Russians flooded social media in 2015 with disinformation, and one of their intentions was to erode our faith in our free and fair elections. And erosion of faith in our elections was and continues to be a major intention of Trump. Trump and the Russians -- they sought the same thing.

I hope you realize that there is no basis, no reason for any American to have any doubts about the integrity of US elections. How do I know? Because after he lost in 2020 Trump filed sixty -- SIXTY lawsuits claiming there was fraud in that election. You'd think if there was any reason to doubt the election's integrity, it certainly would have come forward in those lawsuits.

But no. Not one of those lawsuits presented any evidence, any reason to question the fact that the election was free and fair. So this "erosion of faith" in US elections that you speak of is false. The only people whose faith has been eroded have been duped -- they've fallen for the disinformation put out there by the Russians and Trump which is utterly baseless, without evidence, and without any reason.... all because of the immaturity and severe personality disorders of Trump who just can't take a loss like a man and thinks he is above the law.
 
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