BREAKING NEWS: Key Bridge Collapsed

[element94]

The Chesapeake Bay bridge always freaks me out because it is so long that at a point you are out in the middle of nowhere, just you, the bridge and a lot of water.

Did ever have to sit out there near the middle (about mile 2) with traffic stopped during high winds? Not only side to side movement but also up and down.

 

[ClaraD]

The ship had a harbor pilot on board. The pilots don't "man the helm", they "conn the bridge" meening they have control of the bridge for issuing navigation orders.



The ship pulled away from the pier in a northeasterly direction then did a 180 degree turn.

Continuing northwest would have taken it to dry land, you know that the ship was heading for open ocean water to the southeast. How is the ship supposed to go southeast when facing northwest without doing a turn?



The hit on the "supply chain" won't last that long as once the debris is cleared ships will be able to transit again. Maybe 2-4 weeks.

Ya, it sucks that HAZMAT will have to go around, but there are plenty of highways for that in the area.



This will be investigated six ways to Sunday, not to worry.

WW

Not to mention it will only take that long because they are recovering deceased construction workers

 

[Torus34]

There are 12 large ships trapped behind the collapsed bridge. Four are US naval vessels, three are bulk carriers, two are general cargo and there's also an oil/chemical tanker, a vehicle carrier and a container ship. Depending upon the port facilities, the owners can schedule some maintenance, but other than that it's non-productive time for them until the steel's cleared from the central channel. Accurate estimates for that are not yet available.

Regards, stay safe 'n well.

 

[BirdinHand]

Not to mention it will only take that long because they are recovering deceased construction workers

The search/rescue/recovery has been ceased. It is too dangerous for the divers to try to retrieve the remaining bodies. Equipment is starting to move in to remove the bridge and address the vessel.

 

[WorldWatcher]

The search/rescue/recovery has been ceased. It is too dangerous for the divers to try to retrieve the remaining bodies. Equipment is starting to move in to remove the bridge and address the vessel.

Not a diver, but I'm assuming the remains are somewhere in the wreckage.

That as the divers work in the future to attach lifting cables if the bodies are found they will still be recovered and dealt with respectfully.

WW

 

[BirdinHand]

Not a diver, but I'm assuming the remains are somewhere in the wreckage.

That as the divers work in the future to attach lifting cables if the bodies are found they will still be recovered and dealt with respectfully.

WW

Yeah, the word was it was too dangerous with the wreckage in the water, lack of visibility, water temps and currents for them to continue. They retrieved the bodies of two construction workers that were (I think?) in a construction-related pickup truck and were unable to find any further without putting themselves in unnecessary danger. I'm sure if they encounter any other remains while removing debris, they will most definitely be dealt with respectfully.

 

[TomFitz]

Here’s an article explaining why the Francis Scott Key didn’t.

They’re required on newer bridges.

And earlier in either this (or the other thread on this incident), I posted where the decision was made sometime after a 1980 bridge collapse NOT to add them to the Francis Scott Key because of cost.

They may have helped. They may not have. And newer bridges will have fender and dolphins AND be designed with these gigantic ships in mind.

Unless you have Time Machine, it’s hard to blame people in the 70’s for this. And hard to blame people who decided not to add fenders, bumpers, etc after when they didn’t have the money TO do so.

This is a tragic situation. Lots of lessons will be learned and hopefully applied. (But pardon me for expecting it to completely be forgotten about by most people in general by the end of the week)

Baltimore's Key Bridge may have lacked collision protective measures for modern cargo ships: Experts

Baltimore’s Francis Scott Key Bridge partially collapsed early Tuesday morning after a massive cargo ship collided with one of the bridge's support columns.

abcnews.go.com

Excellent post!

The collapse of the Sunshine Skyway bridge was the first similar disaster to come to mind.

There are large concrete bollards both north and south of the bridge. But the ship was propelled by wind and tide on a course that passed the north e b bollard completely, but aimed right at the abutment.

Today, engineers could model that scenario on a PC. But in 1972, that technology didn’t exist.

 

[TomFitz]

Amen. We also need to not divide neighborhoods by interstate highways that destroy neighborhoods, school districts, hospitals, parks, cultural venues, public transit and shopping areas which leads to food deserts.

What does this have to do with the Key Bridge? The causeway on the north side skirts the lower edge of Dundalk. The western approach has no residential at all.

 

[TomFitz]

I understand that just fine.

The Francis Scott Key bridge didn’t have them, wasn’t required to (grandfathered because of its age) and when they talked about doing it in the 80’s they decided it was too expensive.

It is what it is. There were no fenders. Standing here today going “they should have hand fenders” doesn’t change anything.

When the bridge is rebuilt, it will likely exceed all the current codes and requirements.

Now, will you stop with the snide posts about Google? Or am I going to have to effectively repeat myself again?

You have noted that a decision was taken in the `1980’s not to reinforce the footers. Do you have a link? I would like to read it.

 

[BirdinHand]

You have noted that a decision was taken in the `1980’s not to reinforce the footers. Do you have a link? I would like to read it.

I posted that one sometime yesterday.

But here is where again - as recently as 2001 - the decision was made again

After the Sept. 11, 2001, terrorist attacks, Maryland discussed installing pier guards but decided against it because it was too expensive.

"I think they would have been effective in all this. They would have reduced the impact, or at least prevented the ship impacting directly the piers because the way it went, it looked almost effortlessly the same. The vessel hit the pier and it just went and there was no hesitation. The bridge couldn't handle it at all. So, I think the fenders, the bumpers would help," said Abieyuwa Aghayere, a civil engineering professor at Drexel University.

The history of Baltimore's Francis Scott Key Bridge

A container ship lost power early Tuesday, crashing into Baltimore's historic Francis Scott Key Bridge, causing it to snap and plug into the river below.

www.wbaltv.com

Sometimes, there just isn't the MONEY to do the infrastructure upgrades wanted or needed. It is just the reality of it.

 

[Common Sense 1]

Some news on the clean up to get the port open!

How the Army Corps of Engineers plans to reopen the Port of Baltimore​

How the Army Corps of Engineers plans to reopen the Port of Baltimore - Washington Examiner

Daily on Defense: Army Corps races to reopen Baltimore port, White House rolls out AI rules, Houthis target US warship

www.washingtonexaminer.com

RACE TO REOPEN, JOB ONE: CLEAR THE CHANNEL: The Port of Baltimore is one of the busiest on the East Coast, with between $100 million and $200 million in cargo moving through the port every day. There are 10 cargo ships trapped by the collapse of the Francis Scott Key Bridge on Wednesday and 8,000 dock and other workers idled representing about $2 million in wages. So the race is on to reopen the port to minimize disruption to global supply lines.


“No matter how quickly the channels can be reopened, we know that it can’t happen overnight. And so, we’re going to have to manage the impacts in the meantime,” Transportation Secretary Pete Buttigieg said at a White House briefing. “It’s America’s largest vehicle-handling port, which is important not only for car imports and exports but also for farm equipment.”


The Coast Guard is the lead agency, but the literal heavy lifting falls to the Army Corps of Engineers. “We’re going to go about this in three steps. The first is to get the steel truss out of a 700-foot wide by 50-foot deep channel,” Lt. Gen. Scott Spellmon, commander and chief of engineers for the corps, told CNN. “Then we’re going to look at the bottom and see what concrete members are down below. When these ships come into Baltimore harbor, there’s anywhere between a foot and a foot and a half of clearance from the bottom. So any piece of concrete, any piece of steel on the bottom is just as much a hazard.


“So that’s Step 1. That’s going to allow us to get one-way traffic going in and out of the Port of Baltimore again,” he said.

 

[JANFU]

Going forward we better do it to all bridges or terrorists will repeat the tragedy, but on purpose.

Not affordable. But identifying critical ports and upgraded protections, if needed, are funded
1 thing I read today was reference ship bunker fuel, the last place oil goes and is full of contaminants that can and do clog a ship's fuel lines

Another is the hull has been pierced
1 NG line and a major power line are close to the ship. Not sure if they have other protections such as encased in concrete??

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[JMB1911A1]

Geraldo is full of BS as usual. There have been zero reports that these were illegals. They were all immigrants but no reports have said that they were "undocumented".

 

[medi]

< < < truncated > > >


The Coast Guard is the lead agency, but the literal heavy lifting falls to the Army Corps of Engineers. “We’re going to go about this in three steps. The first is to get the steel truss out of a 700-foot wide by 50-foot deep channel,” Lt. Gen. Scott Spellmon, commander and chief of engineers for the corps, told CNN. “Then we’re going to look at the bottom and see what concrete members are down below. When these ships come into Baltimore harbor, there’s anywhere between a foot and a foot and a half of clearance from the bottom. So any piece of concrete, any piece of steel on the bottom is just as much a hazard.


“So that’s Step 1. That’s going to allow us to get one-way traffic going in and out of the Port of Baltimore again,” he said.

MY GOODNESS! Is that a misprint? ONLY a foot to a foot and a half of clearance!? That would be at low tide? If that is not a misprint.

Please excuse my surprise. I don't know about this business, but I sure know that a foot to a foot and a half is not much of a clearance for even some people backing out of a garage. For a huge ship with millions of dollars of stuff on board that seems weird. If it is true.

Just hit me, too; on airfields and a carrier flight deck we do what is known as an FOD check and I am now wondering if that foot to a foot and a half is true, does the Coast Guard do some sort of FOD style check of those channels?

 

[Common Sense 1]

MY GOODNESS! Is that a misprint? ONLY a foot to a foot and a half of clearance!? That would be at low tide? If that is not a misprint.

Please excuse my surprise. I don't know about this business, but I sure know that a foot to a foot and a half is not much of a clearance for even some people backing out of a garage. For a huge ship with millions of dollars of stuff on board that seems weird. If it is true.

Just hit me, too; on airfields and a carrier flight deck we do what is known as an FOD check and I am now wondering if that foot to a foot and a half is true, does the Coast Guard do some sort of FOD style check of those channels?

I personally don't know?

The ship has major damage from the bridge falling on it.

It's going to be a major project just to open a passage for ship to enter and exit the port.

 

[medi]

I personally don't know?

The ship has major damage from the bridge falling on it.

It's going to be a major project just to open a passage for ship to enter and exit the port.

Oh yes, I get it that the ship itself is presently a problem. I saw that yesterday when I had some time to look at some information about that accident.

But that Army fella might have been referring to the usual parameters for that channel when not taking into account that accident. And if that is true for that channel, I wonder about others around the world. Heck, I thought sand style stuff gets moved around in those shallower waters and that is another reason that foot to a foot and a half surprised/surprises me.

But I ain't no seafaring type and know zip-zero-nothing about that stuff.

 

[JMB1911A1]

MY GOODNESS! Is that a misprint? ONLY a foot to a foot and a half of clearance!? That would be at low tide? If that is not a misprint.

Please excuse my surprise. I don't know about this business, but I sure know that a foot to a foot and a half is not much of a clearance for even some people backing out of a garage. For a huge ship with millions of dollars of stuff on board that seems weird. If it is true.

Just hit me, too; on airfields and a carrier flight deck we do what is known as an FOD check and I am now wondering if that foot to a foot and a half is true, does the Coast Guard do some sort of FOD style check of those channels?

The Ft McHenry channel is dredged to a depth of 50 feet.

Source:

https://www.nab.usace.army.mil/Portals/63/docs/Navigation/1DE/Map/map.pdf

The MV Dali has a draught of 49' 4" full loaded. Which could explain why she was not fully loaded leaving Baltimore.

MV Dali - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

And it gets worse:
"Baltimore is one of only three Eastern U.S. ports with a 50-foot (15.2 meters) shipping channel and a 50-foot container berth"

Port of Baltimore, Maryland

So, we have cut Eastern US deep water container port capacity by a third. This is going to hurt.

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[CaughtInThe]

 

[Tangmo]

NTS Board Chair Jennifer Homendy said there are 56 containers carrying hazardous materials on the Dali and that she has seen "some of them" in the water. Homendy said a preliminary report of what's known will be issued in "two to four weeks." Sounds pretty casual if not dismissive to me anyway.

The Baltimore Fire Chief James Wallace said Wednesday that the cargo ship's bridge structure and containers at the bow remain unstable. "It's going to be very difficult, if not impossible, and very dangerous, to place people on the bow of that boat right now," Wallace told CNN's Kaitlan Collins. Naturally, we're still very cognizant of the fact that there are hazardous materials on board the vessel itself," Wallace said, alluding to the National Transportation Safety Board saying earlier that 56 containers were carrying hazardous materials.

Wallace said his team is relying heavily on aerial recognizance, including drones. "That's the only way we're able to see in," he said.


I wonder what the possibility or probability is right now the bow could crack open or have a major breach from the midship that would result in harbor water flowing in to further destabilize or outright sink the whole of the sucker. That's a lot of already crashed steel weighing down 24-7 onto the structure of the bow. Nobody there is talking about any risk or possible danger of this.

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Not affordable. But identifying critical ports and upgraded protections, if needed, are funded
1 thing I read today was reference ship bunker fuel, the last place oil goes and is full of contaminants that can and do clog a ship's fuel lines

Another is the hull has been pierced
1 NG line and a major power line are close to the ship. Not sure if they have other protections such as encased in concrete??

Welp, The cost of replacing the bridge and lives lost cost a lot more than that.

 

[JANFU]

Welp, The cost of replacing the bridge and lives lost cost a lot more than that.

That would not cover costs for critical bridges to have fenders installed

 

[BirdinHand]

Please excuse my surprise. I don't know about this business, but I sure know that a foot to a foot and a half is not much of a clearance for even some people backing out of a garage. For a huge ship with millions of dollars of stuff on board that seems weird. If it is true.

Just hit me, too; on airfields and a carrier flight deck we do what is known as an FOD check and I am now wondering if that foot to a foot and a half is true, does the Coast Guard do some sort of FOD style check of those channels

18” is actually a decent clearance.

In plenty of places, ships and boats have to time their coming and going from ports, marinas, etc based on tides. Baltimore apparently does a good job dredging keeping it that deep and able to clear these monster ships - even at low water.

 

[Gladiator]

Why did the lights on Dali go out a couple minutes before the crash?

Did the electric panel for the whole ship trip out?

Was the Dali lights-out result from over-loaded circuits?

Was the Dali power loss a result of the same problems reported by the ship's crew around lunch-time the day before?

Were the Pilots informed that the Dali had been having trouble with power-loss, when they started work on the Aldi?

Was the original design of the Electrics on the Dali sufficient for current number of refrigerated containers?

Did the owner of the Dali fail to keep the capacities of the electrics up-to-date with current practices?

Was the duty to upgrade the Aldi's electrics clearly spelled out in leasing documents?

Should the Coast Guard inspect container ships' leasing documents for updating electrics on all container ships?




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