Attack by truck in Nice, France * dozens feared dead [W:15,W:30]

[Chagos]

If you so desire you can go back and look up where we crossed words earlier, for example, on violence going on in Europe. You were ONLY concerned with acts that seemed to affect you, I believe you had a friend die in one. Remember?

What has any of that to do with squat. To give you some help in focussing:

Unlike you who distorts at almost EVERY opportunity.

Give an example

Now your claim is that I distort. In this context in the manner I addressed wrt someone else. Like, if you bothered to make an attempt at comprehension, putting words into somebody else's mouth that were never said. Straw manning it's called in case you're not aware of it.

So give me an example of where I did that.

 

[Chagos]

Yes, it was originally a response to Saxon initiated incursion [see the Saxon attack on Deventer] and so was not, as you quickly admit, all about religious Imperialism on Charlemagne's part.

Well, if this quick digression from topic may be pardoned, religion was the core of imperial power then and before. However pious or downright godless those exploiting it may or may not have been, it was the unifying catalyst that made for consolidation of power. Conversion was the ultimate tool of subjugation.

The Franks are what became the French,

better said the Franks were. And they didn't just become the French, they became the forerunners of later Germans as well. Or German realms, if one prefers.

which had power structures divided between those of governance and religion.

agreed, even where the two were in constant conflict.

 

[joG]

I don't think either of those were religions that I am aware of?

The Frank religion, didn't it combine with beans, that turned out to be a bit of stinker. And I am pretty sure sure Belgium, even when it didn't have a true government there for a while, was not a religion but a country, yano?

I think for this topic religion is the wrong differentiator. It is the combined set of cultural beliefs, ideology and religion that perform the same function here. That is why the Christian religions are now so affable, while they were so brutal in pursuit of their goals.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

What has any of that to do with squat. To give you some help in focussing:

Now your claim is that I distort. In this context in the manner I addressed wrt someone else. Like, if you bothered to make an attempt at comprehension, putting words into somebody else's mouth that were never said. Straw manning it's called in case you're not aware of it.

So give me an example of where I did that.

You seem to do a lot of squatting [ I remember many of those primitive French toilets while bicycling from Belgium to the Italian border back in '82 ]I gave you one if you wanted to go back and look. Secondly, give an example where distortion was done here by the poster you were accusing on this thread, eh? That is an example of YOUR distortion.

So proof right here on the thread, Charlie.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

I think for this topic religion is the wrong differentiator. It is the combined set of cultural beliefs, ideology and religion that perform the same function here. That is why the Christian religions are now so affable, while they were so brutal in pursuit of their goals.

How are statements like your original combined with these getting us any closer to solving the problem of radical Islam which is plainly visible on the globe in which we live in today?

 

[joG]

How are statements like your original combined with these getting us any closer to solving the problem of radical Islam which is plainly visible on the globe in which we live in today?

At least it tells us, where to start looking.

 

[joG]

What do you think is the inspiration? What else could it be but Islamic doctrine? There is no difference between what is sanctioned and the acts of a crazy evil person emulating his prophet. This is what is taught and therefore the religion is to blame. There is no way around it.

The evidence points at the problem being at the intersections of libertine with traditional beliefs and ethics combined with the societal and economic circumstances we have structured.

 

[Chagos]

~................... Secondly, give an example where distortion was done here by the poster you were accusing on this thread, eh? That is an example of YOUR distortion.

Info posted on the driver having past history of mental problems, another poster takes it up and in response to that our resident distorter implies that it was said that Islam is a mental illness. To then question this imaginative claim that nobody made.

To not see that would be pretty much a distortion on your part.

So proof right here on the thread, Charlie.

yes indeed, to anyone possessed of reading comprehension.

All of which notwithstanding, you can now go and play your little prevaricating games on your own. Or with the other two having an equally pronounced penchant for dishonest presentations.

Bye.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Well, if this quick digression from topic may be pardoned, religion was the core of imperial power then and before. However pious or downright godless those exploiting it may or may not have been, it was the unifying catalyst that made for consolidation of power. Conversion was the ultimate tool of subjugation. better said the Franks were. And they didn't just become the French, they became the forerunners of later Germans as well. Or German realms, if one prefers. agreed, even where the two were in constant conflict.

Charlemagne was undeniably Christian, but to make his motivations and his power base that only of Christianity is a bit of a stretch. Fact of the matter, two examples, he conquered the lands of fellow Christians, Desiderius and Tassilo III, in his efforts to expand/consolidate his own empire.

As to wording, I think you should stick to trying to figure out the reality of what is actually going on in the world currently and in the past before you try to become my editor. I word things the way I want them worded. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Name_of_France That the Franks become others things as well, well yeah...

And as agreed, we agree on my last point which takes us full circle back to my first point here.

 

[Chagos]

Buh-Bye

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Info posted on the driver having past history of mental problems, another poster takes it up and in response to that our resident distorter implies that it was said that Islam is a mental illness. To then question this imaginative claim that nobody made.

To not see that would be pretty much a distortion on your part.
yes indeed, to anyone possessed of reading comprehension.

All of which notwithstanding, you can now go and play your little prevaricating games on your own. Or with the other two having an equally pronounced penchant for dishonest presentations.

Bye.

Having a history of mental problems does not preclude anyone from joining any murderous group. ISIS is just such a group and it has taken responsibility, called him one of its soldiers. How do you now run away from that and your own distortions? Don't you keep up with the thread?

I don't play games and yes, you need not respond to my post as you have proven yourself, besides being limp-wristed, to be unable to read, comprehend and logically assimilate the facts that logically lead one to the conclusion we have on the planet a worldwide murderous set of affiliated and non affiliated groups following Islam that intend many of the rest of us harm. Destruction if it can be occasioned by namby-pamby coddlers like the folks in 'leadership' who feel like you do, afraid to offend, afraid to call a spade a spade. Afraid to take action unless its your friends or relatives that are threatened... and only after the fact.

Sorry, most of us are not that suicidal.

Ciao.

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

Buh-Bye

Dominate you on the OP and Charlemagne, you got nothing so best make your quickest exit... Great debate skills offered up by the true resident distorter and ad homer who collapses at first sign of anyone taking your stupid claims and exposing them for what they truly are.

What a joke. So yes, this is a debate site... as they say, can't handle the heat, get outta the kitchen. See you leaving with your tail between you legs, ha ha ha. How do one say good riddance in French, Charlie? :2wave::lamo:lamo:lamo

 

[Gaugingcatenate]

At least it tells us, where to start looking.

And where is that in your mind?

 

[Chagos]

Well, seeing that at least for the time being French investigators cannot find any link between Bouhlel and IS, guess we'll just have to take IS's word for it.

 

[coldjoint]

I'd rather wait till more evidence comes to light. The suspect ate pork, drank alcohol and wasn't religious. Putting up the blame game at this point is just knee jerk silliness.


Thanks for proving my point. :doh

And what he did absolves him of all those transgressions. There is nothing Allah values more than jihad. For devout Muslims he is a martyr and is in Paradise as we speak. And someone else is on their knees.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

Mixed bag, sort of. Probably more Sunni, than others.

98% Sunni.

I'm not arguing that we religiously profile sunnis in Europe but I guess I wasn't answered by the person I previously quoted because that old "all muslims are evil rapist / terrorists etc" doesn't stand up when you look at the sect most involved in terror crimes against us.

What it does raise is why primarily this sect of islam? It also has ramifications and answers in past dealings but it may also have the beginnings of answers for the future.

 

[Chagos]

~............What it does raise is why primarily this sect of islam? It also has ramifications and answers in past dealings but it may also have the beginnings of answers for the future.

The biggest of the factions and the most susceptible to the Wahhabism that is one of the schools within it.

The whole radicalism is rooted within that school. From Pakistan to London and wherever it's exported to and has been by force of Saudi money.

 

[Chagos]

Four men held over lorry attack in Nice - Four men held over lorry attack in Nice - BBC News

He had accomplices? Who'd have thought it!

We don't really know yet.

 

[coldjoint]

The biggest of the factions and the most susceptible to the Wahhabism that is one of the schools within it.

The whole radicalism is rooted within that school. From Pakistan to London and wherever it's exported to and has been by force of Saudi money.

And that radicalism is the fundamental Islam of Mohammad, and originates in the Koran, Hadith, and other holy literatue.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

And that radicalism is the fundamental Islam of Mohammad, and originates in the Koran, Hadith, and other holy literatue.

Seems you read Chagos' and my words but somehow don't understand as you then go back to default position about the whole religion. I repeat my point to you - Sunni or Shia?

Do you also broad brush the Kurds in there too?

 

[joG]

And where is that in your mind?

That will depend on the area on the globe you are looking at. But we did not deradicalize Christianity by fighting it. We corrupted the believers with the success of our societies.

 

[joG]

98% Sunni.

I'm not arguing that we religiously profile sunnis in Europe but I guess I wasn't answered by the person I previously quoted because that old "all muslims are evil rapist / terrorists etc" doesn't stand up when you look at the sect most involved in terror crimes against us.

What it does raise is why primarily this sect of islam? It also has ramifications and answers in past dealings but it may also have the beginnings of answers for the future.

In the case of Bin Laden it was in a simplified manner of speaking that he was angered that the Saudi elite was working so closely with the US. He did not like the policies of the US in the Middle East. At least that was the reason the family seems to have had for it, more or less. Now this is anecdotal, but most terrorists have an individual CV within the structures of the societies in which they are socialized and live. It is like with the Mafia or with gangs. Some join and become criminal. Most do not.

 

[Infinite Chaos]

~ most terrorists have an individual CV within the structures of the societies in which they are socialized and live. It is like with the Mafia or with gangs. Some join and become criminal. Most do not.

True enough but Wahabbism is a branch of sunni islam, that tends to link those "individual CVs" you mention.

 

[joG]

True enough but Wahabbism is a branch of sunni islam, that tends to link those "individual CVs" you mention.

As social systems tend to do.

 

[coldjoint]

Seems you read Chagos' and my words but somehow don't understand as you then go back to default position about the whole religion. I repeat my point to you - Sunni or Shia?

Do you also broad brush the Kurds in there too?

I am broad brushing no one. It seems you cannot figure out I am talking about the religion, not the people or sects that belong to it.

What you call the default position is what the Koran says about the religion and how it should be interpreted. That is what I have been posting about and what the apologists will not admit by avoiding my questions and deflecting.

One more time. The Koran itself it is subject to literal interpretation. Therefore Islam is supposed to be as violent and intolerant and hateful. How the Sunnis, Shiites or Kurds act does not change that fact. And also shows that ISIS is strict literal interpretation and Mohammads Islam. Mohammad and Islam are inseparable, another fact.