Activists Brace for Failure at COP21

[Jack Hays]

The 'Anthony Watts' byline.

Never trust a serial liar to report news.

Of course. There are monsters under the bed.

 

[GPS_Flex]

The 'Anthony Watts' byline.

Never trust a serial liar to report news.

Of course. There are monsters under the bed.

lol! Apparently there are monsters everywhere except where they are killing us, but those aren't monsters, they're victims of American success or some other nonsense that requires the dismantling of America by the left.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Originally Posted by Tim the plumber View Post
The medeval warm period was warmer. You have not posted anything which says that it was not.

Well...I could have sworn I posted this earlier...but maybe not.

"Temperatures in some regions matched or exceeded recent temperatures in these regions, but globally the Medieval Warm Period was cooler than recent global temperatures. Temperatures were probably between 0.1 °C and 0.2 °C below the 1961 to 1990 mean and significantly below the level shown by instrumental data after 1980."

Mann, M. E.; Zhang, Z.; Rutherford, S.; et al. (2009). "Global Signatures and Dynamical Origins of the Little Ice Age and Medieval Climate Anomaly". Science 326 (5957): 1256–60.

Oh, right it's a Mann thing.

Can you find any other temperature data sources that support him? Just asking. The answers might be surprising for you.

 

[ocean515]

The 'Anthony Watts' byline.

Never trust a serial liar to report news.

Paris climate talks: Money row bogs down progress on international agreement - ABC News (Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

Funding row 'threatens Paris climate deal', India and China warn - Telegraph


As the alarmist/deniers patter about, the truth is admitted in Paris. AGW is all about the money as alarmists have been denying for years. It's all about the global social justice agenda that created the AGW religion in the first place.

One hopes the middle finger is extended to the dictators/despots/corrupt leaders in many of the undeveloped countries who are hoping for a windfall of unimaginable size.

 

[MrT]

Oh, right it's a Mann thing.

Can you find any other temperature data sources that support him? Just asking. The answers might be surprising for you.

Yes.

"Our global temperature reconstruction for the past 1500 years is indistinguishable within uncertainty
from the Mann et al. (2) reconstruction."


Shaun A. Marcott et al. 11,300 Years A Reconstruction of Regional and Global Temperature for the Past; Science 339, 1198 (2013);

 

[flogger]

Yes.

"Our global temperature reconstruction for the past 1500 years is indistinguishable within uncertainty
from the Mann et al. (2) reconstruction."

Only if your eyes have stopped working. There isn't a proxy study anywhere in the world that would buttress Mann or Marcotts deeply flawed constructs

The only reason these two studies have been given such prominence over all the rest is that they fit the political narrative of a particular section of society

 

[Threegoofs]

Only if your eyes have stopped working. There isn't a proxy study anywhere in the world that would buttress Mann or Marcotts deeply flawed constructs

The only reason these two studies have been given such prominence over all the rest is that they fit the political narrative of a particular section of society

PAGES 2K has confirmed both of these studies in a much more comprehensive manner. It's the current gold standard paper.

Continental-scale temperature variability during the past two millennia : Nature Geoscience : Nature Publishing Group

It was the lead paper in Nature that month, which attests to its importance. It also confirmed the work of all the other paleoclimate papers leading up to it, of which there are at least a dozen or two, including Mann's seminal paper in 1998.

The only reason this hasn't been given prominence is because it's not talked about on denier websites much, but in the paleoclimate field it's considered the best evidence to date. Given this, it's not surprising you don't know about it, seeing your info comes from deniers and not scientists.

 

[Threegoofs]

Only if your eyes have stopped working. There isn't a proxy study anywhere in the world that would buttress Mann or Marcotts deeply flawed constructs

The only reason these two studies have been given such prominence over all the rest is that they fit the political narrative of a particular section of society

And to further eviscerate your laughable and frankly, clownish claim that somehow Mann and Marcott run counter to all other science, here's a list of about 20 studies of paleoclimate data that basically all point to the same thing.

Seeing the environmental forest: Enough hockey sticks for a team

 

[flogger]

PAGES 2K has confirmed both of these studies in a much more comprehensive manner. It's the current gold standard paper.

Continental-scale temperature variability during the past two millennia : Nature Geoscience : Nature Publishing Group

It was the lead paper in Nature that month, which attests to its importance. It also confirmed the work of all the other paleoclimate papers leading up to it, of which there are at least a dozen or two, including Mann's seminal paper in 1998.

The only reason this hasn't been given prominence is because it's not talked about on denier websites much, but in the paleoclimate field it's considered the best evidence to date. Given this, it's not surprising you don't know about it, seeing your info comes from deniers and not scientists.

This is paywalled so how can anyone make the sort of determinations you have just made about it ?

 

[Threegoofs]

This is paywalled so how can anyone make the sort of determinations you have just made about it ?

LOL. I'm sure you can find the data if you look harder.

I accept your concession that your post that there is no confirmation of Mann was clownish, though.

 

[flogger]

And to further eviscerate your laughable and frankly, clownish claim that somehow Mann and Marcott run counter to all other science, here's a list of about 20 studies of paleoclimate data that basically all point to the same thing.

Seeing the environmental forest: Enough hockey sticks for a team

I've actually already sublinked you many of these same papers via that climate map

The first half dozen confirm there has been a temperature rise since the little ice age (a point never in dispute) but if you go further down the list to studies going back before 1500 they virtually all confirm the existence of the Medieval Warming period and the Holocene maximum putting them completely at odds with Marcott and Mann.

Thanks for this link I'll bookmark it for future reference :thumbs:

 

[flogger]

LOL. I'm sure you can find the data if you look harder.

I accept your concession that your post that there is no confirmation of Mann was clownish, though.

You yourself just supplied me the evidence that there isn't !!!

This really is great fun ::lamo

 

[LowDown]

"Bums of the world?" Seriously? WTF is wrong with you that you would call every individual not living in the United States, or that does not have a certain economic status, a "bum?"

They're at COP21 with their hands out, mooching for money. Of course they are bums.

 

[Threegoofs]

I've actually already sublinked you many of these same papers via that climate map

The first half dozen confirm there has been a temperature rise since the little ice age (a point never in dispute) but if you go further down the list to studies going back before 1500 they virtually all confirm the existence of the Medieval Warming period and the Holocene maximum putting them completely at odds with Marcott and Mann.

Thanks for this link I'll bookmark it for future reference :thumbs:

Well...no.

And the synthesis of all of these in Pages 2k (you know, the paper you are too incompetent to find on the Internet, yet is linked in the link I gave you that you told us you assiduously studied and read?) states:

"Palaeoclimate records spanning the past millennium are often characterized as including some manifestation of a warm Medieval Warm Period (MWP) followed by a cool Little Ice Age (LIA)23...Our regional temperature reconstructions (Fig. 2) also show little evidence for globally synchro- nized multi-decadal shifts that would mark well-defined worldwide MWP and LIA intervals. Instead, the specific timing of peak warm and cold intervals varies regionally, with multi-decadal variabil- ity resulting in regionally specific temperature departures from an underlying global cooling trend."



http://epic.awi.de/32886/1/PAGES2k_NGEO_inpress.pdf


Epic fail, indeed.

 

[LowDown]

You yourself just supplied me the evidence that there isn't !!!

This really is great fun ::lamo

Mann got his friends to do studies supporting the hockey stick. All of them used the same flawed bristlecone pine data. Few others using other proxies confirmed it. At this point no one cites the work or mentions the hockey stick. It has disappeared from the IPCC reports.

And then there are those who try to change the definition of hockey stick graph. To be clear it's a record in which the medieval warming period doesn't exist not just a record with a rapid increase in temperatures in modern times. Mann has recently attempted to do this redefinition trick. It's not a good hockey stick if the handle is bent.

By the way, the MWP is present in Mann's more recent work. One of Mann's buddies, Keith Briffa, has also published recently with a record that shows a MWP.

A recent study found that past work with tree ring proxies has underestimated past temperatures leading to the erroneous conclusion that recent warming is unique.

"We've got to get rid of the medieval warming period." --Michael Mann in a Climategate email.

 

[flogger]

They're at COP21 with their hands out, mooching for money. Of course they are bums.

Poor countries are always going to be very keen on any hypothesis that might make the rich countries give them their money irrespective of its actual merit . Needless to say the rich countries wont be quite so keen

The 2009 Copenhagen junket collapsed on this point as will this one.

 

[Jack Hays]

Climate News
[h=1]CFACT presents four inconvenient facts about global warming at #COP21 display[/h] CFACT has participated in the UN climate process going back to the original Rio Earth summit. We are an officially recognized NGO observer at COP 21. CFACT’s display is in the NGO pavilion at booth 37c. We used our space to inject four “inconvenient facts” into the COP. They are the kind of rock solid,…

 

[Tim the plumber]

Well...no.

And the synthesis of all of these in Pages 2k (you know, the paper you are too incompetent to find on the Internet, yet is linked in the link I gave you that you told us you assiduously studied and read?) states:

"Palaeoclimate records spanning the past millennium are often characterized as including some manifestation of a warm Medieval Warm Period (MWP) followed by a cool Little Ice Age (LIA)23...Our regional temperature reconstructions (Fig. 2) also show little evidence for globally synchro- nized multi-decadal shifts that would mark well-defined worldwide MWP and LIA intervals. Instead, the specific timing of peak warm and cold intervals varies regionally, with multi-decadal variabil- ity resulting in regionally specific temperature departures from an underlying global cooling trend."



http://epic.awi.de/32886/1/PAGES2k_NGEO_inpress.pdf


Epic fail, indeed.

Wow!!!!

He actually quoted it!!

I strongly suspect that he got somebody on a different forum to do the actual work for him but... still well done 3g.

Just because the text actually says that the MWP was a thing which happened over different periods in different regions does not make it go away. It was there and if there had been global temperature data it would have been warmer than now. Just as the USA seems npt to be experiencing this present period of warmth as much as other places.

 

[IB daMann]

A carbon tax is VERY reasonable.

A better solution would be a breathing tax. If you want to breathe, pay your fair tax...to the government, of course, and they'll use that money to fix the breathing problem. Who doesn't want to fix the breathing problem first?

 

[MrT]

A better solution would be a breathing tax. If you want to breathe, pay your fair tax...to the government, of course, and they'll use that money to fix the breathing problem. Who doesn't want to fix the breathing problem first?

Animals, including humans, are biologically limited from producing too much CO2 by our metabolic rate. Even if you had an unlimited amount of food and water, you could not run 100 miles, non-stop, for example.

Machines are not similarly limited. They are the primary sources of excessive CO2 production because of that reason.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Animals, including humans, are biologically limited from producing too much CO2 by our metabolic rate. Even if you had an unlimited amount of food and water, you could not run 100 miles, non-stop, for example.

Machines are not similarly limited. They are the primary sources of excessive CO2 production because of that reason.

Do you know how much CO2 is produced by fossil fuels as a proportion of the total CO2 production?

Do you think it is more or less than the natural rate of production?

 

[MrT]

Do you know how much CO2 is produced by fossil fuels as a proportion of the total CO2 production?

Do you think it is more or less than the natural rate of production?

Much, much less. Somewhere around 1/10th of the natural rate.

Do you think that the natural rate of absorption does an adequate job of sequestering and/absorbing the CO2 produced by fossil fuels?

 

[Tim the plumber]

Much, much less. Somewhere around 1/10th of the natural rate.

Do you think that the natural rate of absorption does an adequate job of sequestering and/absorbing the CO2 produced by fossil fuels?

Yes. I do not see the increased amount of CO2 in the air being anywhere near to being damaging. I do not see it becoming such in the future, as far as is reasonable to predict.

I do not see fossil fuels being the primary power source of humanity for that long. I think solar power and other things will come along fairly quickly, within a few decades. This will make the hype over GW utterly irrelivant.

 

[Threegoofs]

Yes. I do not see the increased amount of CO2 in the air being anywhere near to being damaging. I do not see it becoming such in the future, as far as is reasonable to predict.

I do not see fossil fuels being the primary power source of humanity for that long. I think solar power and other things will come along fairly quickly, within a few decades. This will make the hype over GW utterly irrelivant.

Except for the fact that we have only seen a portion of the warming occur from the CO2 we have already released.

And despite your beliefs that CO2 isn't an issue, the science tells us differently.

 

[Tim the plumber]

Except for the fact that we have only seen a portion of the warming occur from the CO2 we have already released.

And despite your beliefs that CO2 isn't an issue, the science tells us differently.

The science (questionable that it is) tells us that at it's maximum it is not that big a deal.

The hype says that it is the end of the world.