Abortion and child support

[year2late]

Many men do that and the courts do not take that into consideration. Sorry, I know you don't like facing this but the fact is that your gender is full of inconsiderate D-bags who make sport of taking advantage of men. So far every supposed solution you have offered shows your in the class of people who do not respect or appreciate men. Don't be offended when you encounter men who don't appreciate or respect you. Your getting what your asking for.


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You are saying that men have signed documents prior to intercourse?

But like I have said umpteen times....a woman and man can have an agreement. But the agreement is not with the taxpayer/government. That is a separate issue.

I think I am done on this, we all know each others opinions and we are all dug in.

 

[trouble13]

You are saying that men have signed documents prior to intercourse?

But like I have said umpteen times....a woman and man can have an agreement. But the agreement is not with the taxpayer/government. That is a separate issue.

I think I am done on this, we all know each others opinions and we are all dug in.

I'm not dug in but you certainly are. I am open to a variety of solutions you are not.

Let's examine your latest one which I don't think you have ever suggested before but are acting like you have.

You want signed contracts, me too. If a woman does not have a signed contract stating that she is spreading her legs for pleasure only and not to reproduce it's illegal for her to abort. Let's make the same assumptions about her intent as you want to make about his intent.


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[Henrin]

It is not fair...it is acting like men are feral animals.

Do you mind telling me how? Feral male cat don't have X amount of time to opt-out so a state doesn't impose kitten support payments on them.

 

[GEIxBattleRifle]

I'm not dug in but you certainly are. I am open to a variety of solutions you are not.

Let's examine your latest one which I don't think you have ever suggested before but are acting like you have.

You want signed contracts, me too. If a woman does not have a signed contract stating that she is spreading her legs for pleasure only and not to reproduce it's illegal for her to abort. Let's make the same assumptions about her intent as you want to make about his intent.


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Is this mostly about since women can opt out with methods like abortion that men in return should be able to opt out whenever? Haven't been keep up much in this thread and the other 200+ page thread. If that's the case, I agree that men should be allowed to opt out whenever.

If taxpayers would then have a problem with providing support for newborns and such well.........I have a violent solution for that.

 

[Celebrity]

Is this mostly about since women can opt out with methods like abortion that men in return should be able to opt out whenever? Haven't been keep up much in this thread and the other 200+ page thread. If that's the case, I agree that men should be allowed to opt out whenever.

If taxpayers would then have a problem with providing support for newborns and such well.........I have a violent solution for that.

In many states, laws prevent women from getting abortions or make it very difficult. I'm having trouble finding statute about viability, but I did see a statistic that 88% of US counties have no "identifiable" abortion provider (97% in non-metro areas).Laws should prohibit men from opting out in proportion. If someone knows they are going to be a parent and voluntarily opts in at some point, there should be a point at which they are not allowed to opt out afterwards.

States have passed laws to restrict late term abortions,

Advancements in medical technology meant that a fetus might be considered viable, and thus have some basis of a right to life, at 22 or 23 weeks rather than at the 28 that was more common at the time Roe was decided. For this reason, the old trimester formula was ruled obsolete, with a new focus on viability of the fetus.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Safe-haven_law

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abortion_in_the_United_States_by_state

 

[trouble13]

Is this mostly about since women can opt out with methods like abortion that men in return should be able to opt out whenever? Haven't been keep up much in this thread and the other 200+ page thread. If that's the case, I agree that men should be allowed to opt out whenever.

If taxpayers would then have a problem with providing support for newborns and such well.........I have a violent solution for that.

For me its about men and women being treated equally and without a gender based bias by the courts.

Opting out is one aspect but its not limited to that. I would not go as far as saying men should be able to opt out after birth with 1 exception. That being that the men was only recently informed that a child existed.



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[Bodi]

You are saying that men have signed documents prior to sex.

yes. Men have but a woman's choice trumps the contract.

 

[Bodi]

For me its about men and women being treated equally and without a gender based bias by the courts.

Opting out is one aspect but its not limited to that. I would not go as far as saying men should be able to opt out after birth with 1 exception. That being that the men was only recently informed that a child existed.



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You are dug in to equality and years2late is dug in to inequality...

 

[trouble13]

You are dug in to equality and years2late is dug in to inequality...

Y2l is an anti-choicer just like so many of the others who like to throw that word around. They protest profusely when the pro-life people tell them they should not have a choice and anyone who kills their baby is immoral yet they have no shame about doing the exact same thing to men.




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[Bodi]

Y2l is an anti-choicer just like so many of the others who like to throw that word around. They protest profusely when the pro-life people tell them they should not have a choice and anyone who kills their baby is immoral yet they have no shame about doing the exact same thing to men.




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I just say hypocrite..m

 

[Doppelgangirl]

For me its about men and women being treated equally and without a gender based bias by the courts.

Opting out is one aspect but its not limited to that. I would not go as far as saying men should be able to opt out after birth with 1 exception. That being that the men was only recently informed that a child existed.



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Personally, I agree with you on many levels. Men should not be forced to become a parent anymore than women.

Unfortunately (or fortunately? Depending on one's views :mrgreen the physical pregnancy only affects the woman. In the most private, intimate, physical way possible. I don't think men should have a say in whether or not a woman aborts or not. I would never want to *coerce* a woman into having an abortion simply because she can't afford a child on her own.

However, I would be all in favor of allowing men to "opt out," provided the resulting *child* wouldn't suffer as a result. I'm just not sure there is a way to feasibly do that -- unless people decide ensuring a healthy upbringing for the most disadvantaged is a cause worth investing in. Personally, I'd prefer to live amongst well-adjusted, contributing individuals, as I think society as a *whole* benefits. I wouldn't mind my taxes going towards this type of thing, but many others would fight tooth and nail over such a thing.

I do agree that men get a raw deal in that regard. Parenting should be a choice. It should be a joy. It should be *wanted* -- not only for the man & woman involved, but for that child, too.

 

[trouble13]

Personally, I agree with you on many levels. Men should not be forced to become a parent anymore than women.

Unfortunately (or fortunately? Depending on one's views :mrgreen the physical pregnancy only affects the woman. In the most private, intimate, physical way possible. I don't think men should have a say in whether or not a woman aborts or not. I would never want to *coerce* a woman into having an abortion simply because she can't afford a child on her own.

However, I would be all in favor of allowing men to "opt out," provided the resulting *child* wouldn't suffer as a result. I'm just not sure there is a way to feasibly do that -- unless people decide ensuring a healthy upbringing for the most disadvantaged is a cause worth investing in. Personally, I'd prefer to live amongst well-adjusted, contributing individuals, as I think society as a *whole* benefits. I wouldn't mind my taxes going towards this type of thing, but many others would fight tooth and nail over such a thing.

I do agree that men get a raw deal in that regard. Parenting should be a choice. It should be a joy. It should be *wanted* -- not only for the man & woman involved, but for that child, too.

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. It's very nice to hear from a woman who isn't interested in oppressing men to get what she wants.

The only thing i disagree with in your post is the idea that a woman's choice is being coerced if a man didn't share her desire to be a parent. He should not be under any obligation to make her choices easier.

The birth of a child is not essential to my survival it is however essential to society's survival. Society should not be making its burden somebody else's. If society wants unwanted children it should support them.

Anyhow that's just my opinion on it


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[Doppelgangirl]

Thanks so much for sharing your thoughts. It's very nice to hear from a woman who isn't interested in oppressing men to get what she wants.

The only thing i disagree with in your post is the idea that a woman's choice is being coerced if a man didn't share her desire to be a parent. He should not be under any obligation to make her choices easier.

The birth of a child is not essential to my survival it is however essential to society's survival. Society should not be making its burden somebody else's. If society wants unwanted children it should support them.


Anyhow that's just my opinion on it


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Nor should she be obliged to him in that manner.

Abortion is a medical procedure. It-- in & of itself-- *is* a consequence of sorts. It's far more complicated than signing one's name on an opt out form.

If you truly want equality, you have to acknowledge that, physically, the woman is impacted far more than the male. That's a fact. There's no avoiding that.

"Signing on the dotted line" is not equivalent to an abortion. In theory, maybe-- but not in practice.

 

[trouble13]

Nor should she be obliged to him in that manner.

Abortion is a medical procedure. It-- in & of itself-- *is* a consequence of sorts. It's far more complicated than signing one's name on an opt out form.

If you truly want equality, you have to acknowledge that, physically, the woman is impacted far more than the male. That's a fact. There's no avoiding that.

"Signing on the dotted line" is not equivalent to an abortion. In theory, maybe-- but not in practice.

I absolutely agree that neither gender should be obligated to the other on this matter. Being a parent is a very personal commitment and it should be done independently.

As for equality, I say it like this 7+3=6+4 Equal but not the same. I don't deny that women have different concerns than men do. What I don't accept is that a woman's concerns are more important than a mans.

I support a woman's right to abort and I accept that it means that men who wanted a child have to deal with and accept a woman's right to excercise her right butt hat works both ways. Women also need to accept that if she insists on giving birth and the man is uninterested she may be raising that child without any type of support from him.

That's the rub in this. Most women are unreceptive to taking on a burden that they chose to bring into this world. They think they are entitled to the males support even though they went against his wishes.

That's what I mean by equal


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[Celebrity]

We can give the state a D- grade for collection of child support. That is because only 62.3% of child support was collected in 2013. Is non-payment the fault of the enforcement not being stringent? Maybe if non-custodial parents were to be beaten into submission, then they would learn their lesson. Wait, that would be victimizing them. It must be their fault for not coming up with the money we demanded. Majority self-rule is very different than peer pressure of a class of society, namely, biological fathers who have no choice in the outcome of pregnancy.

Biological fathers should not be committed to an economic institution because someone else needs economic aid.

:beatdeadhorse

 

[year2late]

That's the rub in this. Most women are unreceptive to taking on a burden that they chose to bring into this world. They think they are entitled to the males support even though they went against his wishes.

That's what I mean by equal


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Wow. You think most women are unreceptive to taking on the burden???


WTH??????

Please show us the stats!!!!

 

[Celebrity]

Wow. You think most women are unreceptive to taking on the burden???


WTH??????

Please show us the stats!!!!

Child support legal definition of child support

 

[trouble13]

Wow. You think most women are unreceptive to taking on the burden???


WTH??????

Please show us the stats!!!!

You want me to show you stats supporting that women exhibit the behavior that your guilty of exhibiting yourself. Lol.

In other news, water is wet

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[year2late]

You want me to show you stats supporting that women exhibit the behavior that your guilty of exhibiting yourself. Lol.

In other news, water is wet

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As for your personal attack...I willingly took on 100 percent of the financial burden. 100 percent.

Your misrepresentation just shows the needs for statistics.

Show me that most women do not take on this burden.

Thank you for proving exactly why I want numbers.

Do you realize that many women have not pursued support legally (personally perhaps) the issue only gets forced when they seek public assistance?

 

[trouble13]

As for your personal attack...I willingly took on 100 percent of the financial burden. 100 percent.

Your misrepresentation just shows the needs for statistics.

Show me that most women do not take on this burden.

Thank you for proving exactly why I want numbers.

Do you realize that many women have not pursued support legally (personally perhaps) the issue only gets forced when they seek public assistance?

I'm only saying that your asking for me to provide you with stats demonstrating there are people with the position you've already claimed as being yours. If that's a personal attack than maybe you should reconsider your position.

Women like yourself feel that men should be financially liable for children the woman bore against a mans wishes. Are you really going to deny this as a fact. You really need statistical data to confirm this. Seriously???


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[year2late]

I'm only saying that your asking for me to provide you with stats demonstrating there are people with the position you've already claimed as being yours. If that's a personal attack than maybe you should reconsider your position.

Women like yourself feel that men should be financially liable for children the woman bore against a mans wishes. Are you really going to deny this as a fact. You really need statistical data to confirm this. Seriously???


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The personal attack was lying about exhibiting the behavior of not wanting to support my child. I 100 percent supported my child.

Again, show me the stats. Many women do not go after child support and the government forces the issue if they ask for help with food, healthcare, or other forms of welfare.

So, without the stats, and in light of your misrepresentation of me personally...I consider your "argument" throwing crap up against the wall to see what sticks.

Well your misrepresentation of me did not stick.

The REALLY funny thing is that as an "ex" I would have been a dream to you. No quibbles about visitation. No demands for money. But he always knew that if I hit hard times and needed public support, that he would be asked to contribute financially. Like I have said before....a man and a woman having consensual sex should be the ones footing the bill for their kid. Whenever possible, the taxpayer should be left out of it.

But again, I want your statistics showing that women are not taking on the burden of supporting their children.

 

[Henrin]

Well, 33% of women will abort in their lifetime with the vast majority being elective. Women are also more likely than men to not pay their child support payments regardless of their personal wealth. No offense, but that is a lot of women. Just sayin'.

 

[year2late]

Well, 33% of women will abort in their lifetime with the vast majority being elective. Women are also more likely than men to not pay their child support payments regardless of their personal wealth. No offense, but that is a lot of women. Just sayin'.

Have you been through pregnancy?

Before the baby is even born, from the pregnancy itself...not even childbirth.....the woman may lose her job, her place to live, her health or even her life.

I was out of work for nearly 6 months due to serious complications (over 20 years later I still have medical issues relating to my pregnancy). I had credit good enough and a family situation stable enough to weather the storm. Without a strong social structure I could easily have been homeless and without access to decent health care. I would have had to transition off of private insurance at the very time I needed the most continuity.

Come back to me about abortion being only a financial issue when you have an inkling of a grasp of how bad a pregnancy can go for even a woman who was as healthy as I was.

Like I have said before...in terms of support....if a child is born, the issue should be about a fairer support structure and custody arrangements. Not whether or not a man or woman should support their child.

 

[trouble13]

The personal attack was lying about exhibiting the behavior of not wanting to support my child. I 100 percent supported my child.

Again, show me the stats. Many women do not go after child support and the government forces the issue if they ask for help with food, healthcare, or other forms of welfare.

So, without the stats, and in light of your misrepresentation of me personally...I consider your "argument" throwing crap up against the wall to see what sticks.

Well your misrepresentation of me did not stick.

The REALLY funny thing is that as an "ex" I would have been a dream to you. No quibbles about visitation. No demands for money. But he always knew that if I hit hard times and needed public support, that he would be asked to contribute financially. Like I have said before....a man and a woman having consensual sex should be the ones footing the bill for their kid. Whenever possible, the taxpayer should be left out of it.

But again, I want your statistics showing that women are not taking on the burden of supporting their children.

I see your confusion, I did not mean that you exploited the father of your child personally. I don't know if you did or did not. However you do defend women who do it. You have argued numerous times that you agree that the courts are unfair to men and if they don't like it they should practice abstinence because if a child is a born it's tough luck for him.

Even if I produced the stats your requesting it would not prove or disprove my claim. I personally not like using stats to prove an argument because they are too easily skews by sampling and interuptation. What your really looking for is a poll of how many women agree that men should be compelled to financially support children that were born without their consent,

I believe the poll results would heavily support what I claimed but again I would not claim it to be conclusive evidence. Surprisingly i did a quick search to link a few of those polls and did not find any.

Why should the taxpayer be left out of it if it's something the taxpayer is demanding? Do you think the taxpayer should be left out of schools too? Why should we be on the hook to pay for other people's kids educations?


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[trouble13]

Have you been through pregnancy?

Before the baby is even born, from the pregnancy itself...not even childbirth.....the woman may lose her job, her place to live, her health or even her life.

I was out of work for nearly 6 months due to serious complications (over 20 years later I still have medical issues relating to my pregnancy). I had credit good enough and a family situation stable enough to weather the storm. Without a strong social structure I could easily have been homeless and without access to decent health care. I would have had to transition off of private insurance at the very time I needed the most continuity.

Come back to me about abortion being only a financial issue when you have an inkling of a grasp of how bad a pregnancy can go for even a woman who was as healthy as I was.

Like I have said before...in terms of support....if a child is born, the issue should be about a fairer support structure and custody arrangements. Not whether or not a man or woman should support their child.

Why should men make any of your concerns theirs when you clearly don't care about theirs?

You act like the woman is the only who is impacted by a pregnancy or at least how it impacts her is the only thing that should be considered.


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