Zinke chartered flight in oil executive's plane for $12,000: report

[ttwtt78640]

So you know for a FACT that what happened was illegal? Never mind answering because we know you don't.

Something does not have to be illegal to be unethical. Like I said, it is easy to say that a personal schedule is incompatible with commercial airline service. You simply look at the flight schedule and then schedule the meeting (or trip home) to be an hour or two before (or after) the flight(s) available.

 

[ttwtt78640]

IDK why officials don't use the if it was my money would I do this test. If they would use their own money to do such things, then I'd argue they have no business being in office as they are ****ing clueless about the plight of the people they purport to represent.

If you had an annual travel budget of $500K (to spend only on travel) would you worry about anything until it was getting low or gone? It is not as if they get to keep the balance if they did not use it (for travel) or unlikely that they would not have that budgeted amount reduced (next year) if it were not "needed" (for travel) this year. This is, after all, the DC mindset we are working with here.

 

[Fletch]

Read more here: Zinke chartered flight in oil executive's plane for $12,000: report | TheHill

So basically we have two ethically challenged actions here.

1. Like other members of the Trump administration, he is using extremely expensive charted flights on the taxpayer's dime.

2. He is using that taxpayer money on oil industry planes.

Once again, they are filling the swamp.

I suspect this will be a big story. Until it comes out that it was common practice during the Obama administration. Then the story will disappear.

 

[MaggieD]

Nothing is a Trump problem.

If Trump shot someone on 5th Avenue, that would be a symptom of America's violent tendencies but still not a Trump problem.

Brilliant.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

I agree government employees shouldn't do this. However, what does it matter that the plane belonged to an oil company?

Because it is a conflict of interest.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

When the Obamas took two aircraft on one vacation, you said nothing.

Trump has spent more on travel in his first 8 months than the Obamas spent in 8 years. Trump on pace to surpass 8 years of Obama's travel spending in 1 year - CNNPolitics

 

[MaggieD]

Hmm... the ethics staff in that department approves the action of the scheduling staff in that department so all is well in that department so long as you ask only staff in that department if it complied with its own poiicy.

the first thing at thoight ofnwhen I read it.

:lamo

You people are a crack up. You have all spent the last 10 months or so since 9 November dumpster diving, crawling through sewers, digging through dumps, foraging in waste, literally covering yourself in **** and once every 4 or 5 months you pop your head and shriek "look! I found something!!!"

i agree. But that doesn't make chartering planes Willy-nilly appropriate. Speaking of Tom Price now.

This is something I've addressed to you before, which is that this level of abuse and waste is unusual. And it's this rampant because Trump was sent to Washington to shake it up, not to be ethical. Trump and the people he's surrounded himself with are well aware of this.

You don't know it's unusual. Your opinion is one thing. But stating that as if it is fact without a trusted to back it up is JUST that. Your opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that Price, in particular, is the tip of the iceberg.

Something does not have to be illegal to be unethical. Like I said, it is easy to say that a personal schedule is incompatible with commercial airline service. You simply look at the flight schedule and then schedule the meeting (or trip home) to be an hour or two before (or after) the flight(s) available.

Those who travel on business often have to arrive the night before and spend $500 on hotel expenses. Instead of $7000 on a charter flight the next morning. The time of these people isn't that tight. Or it shouldn't be.

If you had an annual travel budget of $500K (to spend only on travel) would you worry about anything until it was getting low or gone? It is not as if they get to keep the balance if they did not use it (for travel) or unlikely that they would not have that budgeted amount reduced (next year) if it were not "needed" (for travel) this year. This is, after all, the DC mindset we are working with here.

yep, that's the swamp all right. Spend it all or your budget will be cut.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

Vendors are all the time offering to take me to lunch to discuss this product or that, take me to baseball and football games - even opening day, fly me out to this event or that event and so on. I don't even so much as take a lunch from a vendor. I consider it unethical. Any purchases I make for my company or recommend my company make are based upon an objective cost / needs analysis on my part, and I do not want it to even appear that anything else influenced my decisions.

As far as travel goes. Anytime I travel for my employer, I stay in reasonably priced accommodations, search for the most inexpensive flight options, and eat reasonably priced meals. I always end up spending far less than I am allotted. Why? Because I consider it unethical to needlessly spend my employers money.

 

[Grand Mal]

There may be a problem here but they would have to isolate out the noise.
Oil companies own planes, when they are not using the plane, they charter it out to
ease the burden of having the plane available.
Question 1 would be, did the Government official pay more (or less) for the charter of the plane
than if he had chartered the plane from some other service?
Note: this is a completely separate question from, can he justify the need to charter a plane.

Which would be worse, if the government official paid more for the oil company plane or if he paid less for it?

 

[VanceMack]

the first thing at thoight ofnwhen I read it.



i agree. But that doesn't make chartering planes Willy-nilly appropriate. Speaking of Tom Price now.



You don't know it's unusual. Your opinion is one thing. But stating that as if it is fact without a trusted to back it up is JUST that. Your opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that Price, in particular, is the tip of the iceberg.



Those who travel on business often have to arrive the night before and spend $500 on hotel expenses. Instead of $7000 on a charter flight the next morning. The time of these people isn't that tight. Or it shouldn't be.



yep, that's the swamp all right. Spend it all or your budget will be cut.

Considering the people that are expressing poutrage over this instance saw absolutely nothing inappropriate with their presidential candidate selling access to the state department and profiteering while she was the Sec of State, I'm going to have to go ahead and not be too overly concerned about their newfound ethical conscience. Their article said it passed an ethics review. Beyond that...these guys are just dumpster diving.

 

[MaggieD]

Considering the people that are expressing poutrage over this instance saw absolutely nothing inappropriate with their presidential candidate selling access to the state department and profiteering while she was the Sec of State, I'm going to have to go ahead and not be too overly concerned about their newfound ethical conscience. Their article said it passed an ethics review. Beyond that...these guys are just dumpster diving.

It was an in-house ethics review. That's like the pot passing judgement on the kettle. Let's see if it passes the overall smell test with the investigation going on.

Edit... as to comparing it to liberals who overlooked anything HC did? That doesn't make abuse of private charters right. It just makes it rampant. Every conservative should be outraged over Price rather than defend him because he's a Trump appointee.

 

[apdst]

Trump has spent more on travel in his first 8 months than the Obamas spent in 8 years. Trump on pace to surpass 8 years of Obama's travel spending in 1 year - CNNPolitics

The Obamas took two aircraft to the same place and you said nothing.

 

[VanceMack]

It was an in-house ethics review. That's like the pot passing judgement on the kettle. Let's see if it passes the overall smell test with the investigation going on.

Sure...we can wait and see. But thats not what is happening.

 

[Cardinal]

You don't know it's unusual. Your opinion is one thing. But stating that as if it is fact without a trusted to back it up is JUST that. Your opinion. There is no doubt in my mind that Price, in particular, is the tip of the iceberg.

You and I have covered this already, but I'll repost it:

It isn't SOP. From the article alone:

The flights aboard private jets — including one Price took last week in a cabin with high-backed leather chairs and a kitchen — have even led some senior administration officials to distance the White House from Price’s travel practices.

A senior administration official who spoke on condition of anonymity said Thursday that the White House did not approve Price’s travel on chartered planes. Politico also quoted an unnamed White House official questioning Price’s effectiveness this week as he has traveled outside D.C. amid a last-minute push in the Capitol to repeal the Affordable Care Act, also known as Obamacare.

Also, the office of the Inspector General is looking into this:

The HHS inspector general's office is reviewing HHS Secretary Tom Price’s taxpayer-funded travel on private jets, a spokesperson told POLITICO.

“We take this matter very seriously, and when questions arose about potentially inappropriate travel, we immediately began assessing the issue,” the spokesperson said. “I can confirm that work is underway and will be completed as soon as possible.”

OIG: Investigation of Tom Price’s charter travel is 'underway' - POLITICO

“I can understand why the secretary might have to use a charter flight to get to a hurricane-devastated region, but Philadelphia is not one of those regions this year,” said Walter Shaub, who was director of the United States Office of Government Ethics until July. “I find it hard to believe he couldn’t find a suitable commercial flight to Philadelphia.”

“This wasteful conduct reflects disdain for the ethical principle of treating public service as a public trust,” said Shaub, who was appointed by former President Barack Obama. “Public office isn’t supposed to come with frivolous perks at taxpayer expense.”
Price’s private-jet travel breaks precedent - POLITICO

Price’s private-jet travel breaks precedent - POLITICO

It's considered a misuse of taxpayer money.

 

[ALiberalModerate]

The Obamas took two aircraft to the same place and you said nothing.

I just pointed out your guy is on track to outspend all of his predecessors on travel expenses and you are saying nothing. So even if the Obama's were inefficient in their use of planes for travel, Trump so far has been an order of magnitude worse in terms of blowing taxpayer money on his travel expenses. Yet all you can do is bring up Obama. It is pathetic.

 

[fmw]

Because it is a conflict of interest.

In what way? Companies list their airplanes with chartering companies. Customers go to the chartering companies to buy a charter. I don't know whether or not the charter company chooses the plane or the customer since I don't charter them myself. This sounds like a complaint without a problem. The problem is that he chartered the jet in the first place.

 

[apdst]

Considering the people that are expressing poutrage over this instance saw absolutely nothing inappropriate with their presidential candidate selling access to the state department and profiteering while she was the Sec of State, I'm going to have to go ahead and not be too overly concerned about their newfound ethical conscience. Their article said it passed an ethics review. Beyond that...these guys are just dumpster diving.

They're the same folks that defend a sittimg president who spied on a presidential candidate.

 

[VanceMack]

The Obamas took two aircraft to the same place and you said nothing.

And the funny thing is they are going to say "this is blaming it on Obama" or "This is blaming it on Hillary" when oin fact...no...its not blaming the acts of anyone...it is pointing out the hypocrisy of people that spent 8 years of the previous administration fawning over them and making excuses for every ethical breach that are now desperate to fund SOMETHING.

Pretense of concern about conflict of interest...riiiiiiiiiiiiiiight. But the Clinton speaking schedule as Sec State, and selling access to the State Dept...why...thats just...nothing.

 

[apdst]

I just pointed out your guy is on track to outspend all of his predecessors on travel expenses and you are saying nothing. So even if the Obama's were inefficient in their use of planes for travel, Trump so far has been an order of magnitude worse in terms of blowing taxpayer money on his travel expenses. Yet all you can do is bring up Obama. It is pathetic.

But...when the Obams took two aircraft when one would be sufficient, you said nothing.

 

[Southern Dad]

Well we know the previous two HHS secretaries flew commercial. I can't speak to whether previous Treasury secretaries were jetting off to view eclipses or if previous Interior secretaries were chartering planes to fly home for the weekend. I suspect not but I suppose we'll find out soon enough.

There's a former president who flies commercial. Should we make the Clintons follow the lead of the Carters?

 

[MaggieD]

Sure...we can wait and see. But thats not what is happening.

You don't know that. Not at all. And if Price has written a check back for $51,000, what does that tell you an investigation will turn up? I just hope "they" investigate it fairly and include the Obama White House.

An HHS official said Thursday that Price would write a check for $51,887.31, which appears to cover the cost of his seat on chartered flights but not those of his staffers. Politico, which first reported on Price’s repeated use of chartered jets, has estimated the total expense of the trips exceeded $400,000 — and it reported early Thursday evening that his White House-approved flights on military planes to Africa, Europe and Asia cost more than $500,000.

 

[Greenbeard]

There's a former president who flies commercial. Should we make the Clintons follow the lead of the Carters?

If we're paying for Bill's flights, sure. If we aren't, who cares?

 

[MaggieD]

You and I have covered this already, but I'll repost it:

It isn't SOP. From the article alone:

Also, the office of the Inspector General is looking into this:

OIG: Investigation of Tom Price’s charter travel is 'underway' - POLITICO

Price’s private-jet travel breaks precedent - POLITICO

It's considered a misuse of taxpayer money.

Remind me where we differ on this.

 

[Southern Dad]

Something does not have to be illegal to be unethical. Like I said, it is easy to say that a personal schedule is incompatible with commercial airline service. You simply look at the flight schedule and then schedule the meeting (or trip home) to be an hour or two before (or after) the flight(s) available.

Not PERSONAL schedule. You threw that part in to try and make it look bad. It's the professional schedule that is a problem. If you leave a meeting in one city at this time, and have to be at a meeting in another city at this time, there are times the schedules will not meet up. Keep in mind WE are going to use this if the Democrats ever regain any power at the federal level. We will question every flight, every office supply order...

 

[Southern Dad]

If we're paying for Bill's flights, sure. If we aren't, who cares?

When Bill and Hillary fly they are required to compensate the government for the cost of a plane ticket. The same as any other former president and first lady. My point was that the Carters fly commercial, should it be required of everyone? You threw out that a former Sec did it. DeVos pays for her own travel, should everyone have to because she does it?