Your thoughts on Agnostics

[Cephus]

How do we determine that something is possible?

That's actually a pretty good question for which I don't have a very good answer. So long as I can imagine that it could happen, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt that it might happen, given the right conditions.

 

[devildavid]

That's actually a pretty good question for which I don't have a very good answer. So long as I can imagine that it could happen, I'm willing to give it the benefit of the doubt that it might happen, given the right conditions.

So my next question would be why is man's imagination the basis for something being possible?

 

[Rich2018]

Yes, it is possible, in the realm of extreme possibilities, that some kind of god exists. Possible. Not likely. Not supported by any evidence of any kind. That's the position of the vast majority of atheists.

I am an Atheist and that's my position too.

I don't believe there are any gods - but I'm not going to go out and say categorically that there are none.

...it is also not impossible that we all live in the Matrix....

Do you know for sure that is possible?
Neither do I...and since I don't know if it's possible that I'm in a computer simulation, I have the say that AFAIK, I could be in a computer simulation.

However we have to trust our senses, because if we allow the computer simulation to enter our world of possibilities, then you can't say anything to be true and discussion is meaningless.

If you entertain the possibility of being in a computer simulation, you have to accept the possibility that universe was created 30 seconds ago.

It is an intellectual cul-de-sac.

...why limit it to Christians?

Because this is a US based web forum and most people on here are in the USA and the predominant religion is still Christianity here.
Secondly, I happen to know something about the history of Christianity.

By all means if you want to search for some members of other faiths to argue with, go right ahead.

...let's define agnostic as it is actually defined. Gnosis - knowledge. Add in the prefix a- and you have "without knowledge". That's what the word means. Do the Greek....

Read back and see where I did exactly that.

Clear evidence you do not read.

...*IF* it exists. And how do you determine *IF* it exists?

Your reasoning has serious, serious problems

I just told you

Since we cannot categorically deny the existence of god, then he may exist
Hence ***IF*** since we're saying god MAY exist rather than god DOES exist.

Hence to use of the supposition to indicate uncertainty or doubt.

...because I have verifiable evidence that they do....

A Gnostic says the same thing about god

That he/she has personally verified the existence of god through interaction

...when do you think you'll have that for your imaginary friend?

Which imaginary friend is that ?

...except I'm not claiming to know, I can prove that I do. When can any theist do that?

If you can prove it, then you must accept that you know it to be true

How can you prove a conversation happened with someone you've never met before or since and never recorded or had witnessed ?
Or have you never had a chance encounter ?

 

[Rich2018]

Actually yes. Video tape is a wonderful thing. Stop being absurd.

You've video taped ever conversation with your father.

Why do I not believe you ?

 

[Cephus]

So my next question would be why is man's imagination the basis for something being possible?

Because we're the ones making the determination. It's not an absolute but it has to be based on something and this works.

 

[Cephus]

You've video taped ever conversation with your father.

Why do I not believe you ?

No, but I do have videotape of talking to my father. Are you planning on running around with the goal posts all day?

 

[Dragonfly]

Sorry this makes no sense.

This is wrong.

An Agnostic is someone without knowledge of god...without the absolute certainty of his existence...BUT who is looking for it.
The Agnostic may kind of think god exists but they cannot be sure...their level of certainty is less than the Theist because they're aware of the Gnostics and therefore know there is absolute certainty out there

In short an Agnostic doesn't believe that god exists, but wants to.

Yes, that is the common view. A kind of: YES/NO/DON'T KNOW

But it's not

An Agnostic is someone who has yet to make a personal connection with god.

You mean the popular version.

By all means do so, but you'd be wrong.

Oh and this thread is entitled "Your Thoughts on Agnostics"

Not "What I found on the internet"


The word means different things to different people.

I really don't care if you accept mine - your opinion is of no value to me.

You got off on the VERY wrong foot of telling people they were "wrong" in their definition of what agnostic means.
So yeah, your opinion then suffers any need to give you the benefit of the doubt.

You also made some very bold and wildly incorrect statements about what every agnostic "wants" or is "looking for".

Seriously, you started down the wrong path in this thread, so don't get bitchy when called on it.

 

[Dragonfly]

The only REAL problem I see with people that dont have a clearly defined belief system is that it often makes it more difficult to process grief, guilt, forgiveness, healing, etc.

How is that a "REAL" problem? <---honest question, I don't understand what you're saying

Is it a problem because the person going through the difficult time might take a little longer to come to some kind of solution?

 

[Dragonfly]

Ummm, I don't qualify.

Okay, so what does that make me?

Don't qualify? What does it make you?

Perhaps there's a better working definition of agnostic you might like to share?
Feel free to describe or define "you" in terms of your agnosticism.

 

[holbritter]

They're cool. Honest with others if not with themselves.
So-called New Atheists are the exceptions that prove the rule: agnostics who are dishonest with others as well as themselves.
A sorry lot, the latter.

Did you just post this right after your post 32? Seriously...buy a mirror.

 

[Angel]

They're cool. Honest with others if not with themselves.
So-called New Atheists are the exceptions that prove the rule: agnostics who are dishonest with others as well as themselves.
A sorry lot, the latter.

Did you just post this right after your post 32? Seriously...buy a mirror.

Well, here's post #32:

Who the hell are you that anyone's personal introspective knowledge must have your imprimatur? How do you mount the high horse you ride with your head buried in the sand? Quite a trick.

Wherein lies the tension you perceive between #32 and #33 (Quoted by you)?
I see none at all.

 

[holbritter]

Well, here's post #32:


Wherein lies the tension you perceive between #32 and #33 (Quoted by you)?
I see none at all.

You wouldn't.

 

[Omega Man]

What about the conversations you didn't tape ?

What about conversations with people you didn't tape ?

You referred to "any" conversation. Would you like to re-frame your question perhaps?


OM

 

[Omega Man]

You've video taped ever conversation with your father.

Why do I not believe you ?

"Any" is not "all".


OM

 

[VanceMack]

How is that a "REAL" problem? <---honest question, I don't understand what you're saying

Is it a problem because the person going through the difficult time might take a little longer to come to some kind of solution?

Having an understanding of ones belief system helps people to process feelings of guilt, shame, hurt, loss, etc. So yes...it can take longer because its often more difficult to reconcile those feelings without a 'compass' and guide, if you will. Those that have a clearly defined belief system can more readily turn to that belief system to find internal resolution. And I would stress...having a clearly defined belief system does NOT mean only a spiritual based belief system. For example, an atheist reconciles grief caused by the pain of loss of a loved one in much the same manner as a spiritual based individual...by relying on their understanding of life, death, and beyond.

 

[devildavid]

Because we're the ones making the determination. It's not an absolute but it has to be based on something and this works.

No, it doesn't really work at all. We can imagine anything. Just because we can, it doesn't mean that anything we can imagine is possible. There is no logical connection between the two.

 

[Dragonfly]

Having an understanding of ones belief system helps people to process feelings of guilt, shame, hurt, loss, etc. So yes...it can take longer because its often more difficult to reconcile those feelings without a 'compass' and guide, if you will. Those that have a clearly defined belief system can more readily turn to that belief system to find internal resolution. And I would stress...having a clearly defined belief system does NOT mean only a spiritual based belief system. For example, an atheist reconciles grief caused by the pain of loss of a loved one in much the same manner as a spiritual based individual...by relying on their understanding of life, death, and beyond.

I'm still lost on where the "problem" is though.

A person's ability to deal with grief/loss or whatever has many facets. While religion/belief system may be a tool for many, it's far from the only tool for dealing with such things.

I guess I'm just stuck on your use of the words "REAL problem".

 

[PoS]

I think agnostics are fence-sitters. Of course, it is within their right to be so.

 

[Dragonfly]

I think agnostics are fence-sitters. Of course, it is within their right to be so.

Why is acknowledging that god, gods, or the lack thereof can't be proved either way?

Just as much as some of our more fervent believers can't prove their god exists, neither can any of the atheists prove their nonexistence.

So how is it "fence sitting"? It's basically the actual reality of the whole debate.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Theist - blindly believes in a higher being with no proof
Atheist - blindly believes there isnt a higher being with no proof
Agnostic - believes neither until there is proof.

Which am I?

 

[AlphaOmega]

I think agnostics are fence-sitters. Of course, it is within their right to be so.

I am a fence sitter as you put it. Please move me to your side with your proof.

 

[Dragonfly]

Theist - blindly believes in a higher being with no proof
Atheist - blindly believes there isnt a higher being with no proof
Agnostic - believes neither until there is proof.

I'm not sure why so many folks try to make it more difficult than that.

Well said. :applaud

 

[Angel]

Theist - blindly believes in a higher being with no proof
Atheist - blindly believes there isnt a higher being with no proof
Agnostic - believes neither until there is proof.

Which am I?

I'm not sure why so many folks try to make it more difficult than that.

Well said. :applaud

Bravo, gentlemen! You've greatly simplified the matter for all of us.
Just one small respectfully made addendum must be made to your schema, to wit:
"Agnostic - blindly believes neither until there is proof."

Smashing job even so.

 

[AlphaOmega]

Bravo, gentlemen! You've greatly simplified the matter for all of us.
Just one small respectfully made addendum must be made to your schema, to wit:
"Agnostic - blindly believes neither until there is proof."

Smashing job even so.

Incorrect. Agnostic requires proof to believe either way. Until then there is nothing to blindly believe in. Requiring proof or denial of existence is the opposite of blind thinking. There is no belief either way until there is proof. Agnostic means you hold no position either way.

If you prove to an agnostic one way or the other then the agnostic is no longer agnostic. They will either be a theist or an atheist.

 

[bongsaway]

I'm still lost on where the "problem" is though.

A person's ability to deal with grief/loss or whatever has many facets. While religion/belief system may be a tool for many, it's far from the only tool for dealing with such things.

I guess I'm just stuck on your use of the words "REAL problem".

I presume for some folks the real problem is you don't believe in their god. People who think one needs a belief in god to be a decent person and know the difference between right and wrong for themselves is an impossible equation.

I don't believe in any god after being baptized, receiving my first holy communion, being raised catholic and attending catholic school for years. It's all bull****.

Organized religion in my opinion is the bane of humanity.