WW I, Korea, WW II and Israel; Heads You Win Should Not be Tails I Lose.

[Jredbaron96]

Yeah, yeah, yeah, history is irrelevant.

No one's saying history is irrelevant smart ass. Your history, on the other hand, is pretty unfathomable.

In 1936 20% of Ukrainians were ethnic Russians. By 1950 after the expulsion of Volga Germans, Poles, Ukrainians, Crimean Tatars and Kalmyks, the importation of ethnic Russians, 78% of Ukrainians were Russian.

Nice census to back this up. Oh wait.

Only those who could prove Kievan Rus or Rusyns (Ruthenians) ancestry were spared ethnic cleansing and deportation to Siberia and other eastern lands of the Soviet Union.

Yeah, except for the part where the Soviets lumped the pretty much all of Ukraine's ethnic minorities together under the umbrella term "Ukrainian".

After the fall of the Soviets, many Tartar families who had been deported started returning to Ukraine.

Yeah, and a grand total of less than half a million now live in Ukraine.

Your ad hominem language displays your insecurity with your version of knowledge. Stuff that in your hat and eat it.

Your insults are as second rate as your intellect.

The third largest Jewish population in the Soviet Union were murdered by Ukrainians.

Interesting. Who killed the first and second largest population, might I ask?

The second largest population of Roma in the Soviet Union were murdered by Ukrainians.

You can't hide what the Ukrainians did with little encouragement from the Nazis.

The only place more anti-semetic than Nazi Germany was the USSR. Nothing you've done here proves anything beyond that.


And not a single source to verify any of what you said. How surprising.

 

[Fledermaus]

The USA score is 20 million, but I digress. You are fortunate and can book a room at that USA tropical Paradise, a/k/a Guantanamo or the USA Gulag. Perhaps it would give you perspective outside the imaginary World you live in, or not?./

The USA score is 20 million, but I digress. You are fortunate and can book a room at that USA tropical Paradise, a/k/a Guantanamo or the USA Gulag. Perhaps it would give you perspective outside the imaginary World you live in, or not?./

Soviet Union invasions


Northern Iran 1941–1946
Hungary (1944) Puppet State installed
Romania (1944) Puppet State installed
Bulgaria (1944) Puppet State installed
Czechoslovakia (1944) Puppet State installed
Northern Norway 1944–1946 / Bornholm 1945–1946
Germany (1945) Puppet State installed
Austria 1945–1955
Manchuria 1945–1946
Korea 1945–1948 Puppet State installed in the north.
Kuril Islands 1945
The Hungarian Revolution of 1956 Puppet State got too uppity
Czechoslovakia (1968–1989) Puppet State got too uppity
Afghanistan 1979–1989 Puppet State got too uppity

Execution of approximately 800,000 prisoners under Stalin for either political or criminal offenses. Around 700,000 of these were executed by a gunshot to the back of the head.
Approximately 1.7 million deaths in the Gulags
Approximately 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement
1919 10,000 to 12,000 Cossacks were executed
Holodomor ranges 2.4 million to 12 million
Suppression of the Russian Orthodox church - over 100,000 priests, monks and nuns were executed during this time.

China.

Great Leap forward - Up to 45 million

Bulgaria

50,000 to 100,000 people may have been killed in Bulgaria beginning in 1944 as part of agricultural collectivization and political repression

Romania

60,000 and 300,000 people may have been killed in Romania beginning in 1945 as part of agricultural collectivization and political repression

Democratic People's Republic of Korea

100,000 executions, 1.5 million deaths through concentration camps and slave labor, 500,000 deaths from famine, and 1.3 million killed in the Korean war

Democratic Republic of Afghanistan

1 to 1.5 million people had been killed, mostly Afghan civilians, and one-third of Afghanistan's population had been displaced.

Tibet

92,000 deaths out of a population of about 6 million.

Some sources... Sorry, no RT.

https://www.ranker.com/list/worst-atrocities-by-communist-regimes/daveesons

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' | The Independent

Hitler vs. Stalin: Who Killed More? | by Timothy Snyder | The New York Review of Books

 

[Perotista]

The premise of this thread it that when a party starts a war and loses, the defending side should be allowed to finish it. In the cases of WW I, Korea and Vietnam the aggressors, respectively Germany/Austro-Hungarian Empire, North Korea and North Vietnam started wars. The wars ended in armistices, not in military victories. In all cases complete victory was possible but the West, being “nice” left the losing side to their own devices. In all cases it has leapt us to bite us.

...

Let me summarize:

Here are the "heads I win tails you lose" situations:

North Korea invades South Korea, loses, but loses no territory; and
Arabs repeatedly engaged in war, both guerrilla (now called terrorism or asymetrical war) or conventional wars, i.e. 1948, 1967 and 1973 and lose, and Israel is expected to give all the territory back with no assurance of peace.

In the case of North Korea they have, almost since the 1953 cease-fire been seeking to expand their military capability. The free world is urged to "negotiate." The West gave money in 1994. NK did not live up to the terms of the agreement.

Israel won all of its wars. Yet it is expected to return territory. We returned Gaza and did not get peace in return. What's up with that?

A loss in war should severely and permanently penalize the aggressor. Germany and Japan were reduced to second-rate, though affluent powers. I don’t think that’s such a bad fate for the people of the Arab world, as opposed to their “leaders.”

What you left out of WWI was the Ottoman Empire which was carved up into different countries by the victors at Versailles without regard to religion or tribal loyalty. Only how the French and British mandates would be made easier. One of the main reasons we have had so many problems and wars in the middle east can be traced back to the drawing of country boundary lines by the west at Versailles.

Korea, The agreement before Japan's surrender was that the USSR would accept the Japanese surrender in North Korea, north of the 38 parallel and the United States accept the surrendering Japanese south of the 38th Parallel. The agreement was to remain in effect until the country of Korea could come to terms and create a unified government. But the cold war took place prior to that agreement on a unified government by the Korean People and we ended up with two different countries.

With Israel, what they won in war should be theirs to keep since it was the Arab countries that kept invading them trying to wipe them off the map.

Vietnam is a different ballgame. Once again an agreement was made on the surrender of the Japanese in Vietnam or as it was known French Indochina. Vietnam like Korea was divided with the English in the South to accept the surrender of the Japanese and Nationalist China in the north to do the same there. But the English soon tired of the turmoil in the south and let the French back in to re-establish their colonial rule. This lead to the 1954 Geneva Agreements after Dien Bien Phu in which the Vietnamese people were to vote on whom would rule the whole of Vietnam in 1956. Diem of South Vietnam reneged on the vote since the North had more people and the North was sure to win. We back Diem's not holding the election and as you said, the rest is history.

the thing is in both Korea and Vietnam the division of those countries was to be temporary.

 

[DaveFagan]

Soviet Union invasions


Northern Iran 1941–1946
Hungary (1944) Puppet State installed
Romania (1944) Puppet State installed
Bulgaria (1944) Puppet State installed
Czechoslovakia (1944) Puppet State installed
Northern Norway 1944–1946 / Bornholm 1945–1946
Germany (1945) Puppet State installed
Austria 1945–1955
Manchuria 1945–1946
Korea 1945–1948 Puppet State installed in the north.
Kuril Islands 1945
The Hungarian Revolution of 1956 Puppet State got too uppity
Czechoslovakia (1968–1989) Puppet State got too uppity
Afghanistan 1979–1989 Puppet State got too uppity

Execution of approximately 800,000 prisoners under Stalin for either political or criminal offenses. Around 700,000 of these were executed by a gunshot to the back of the head.
Approximately 1.7 million deaths in the Gulags
Approximately 390,000 deaths during kulak forced resettlement
1919 10,000 to 12,000 Cossacks were executed
Holodomor ranges 2.4 million to 12 million
Suppression of the Russian Orthodox church - over 100,000 priests, monks and nuns were executed during this time.

China.

Great Leap forward - Up to 45 million

Bulgaria

50,000 to 100,000 people may have been killed in Bulgaria beginning in 1944 as part of agricultural collectivization and political repression

Romania

60,000 and 300,000 people may have been killed in Romania beginning in 1945 as part of agricultural collectivization and political repression

Democratic People's Republic of Korea

100,000 executions, 1.5 million deaths through concentration camps and slave labor, 500,000 deaths from famine, and 1.3 million killed in the Korean war

Democratic Republic of Afghanistan

1 to 1.5 million people had been killed, mostly Afghan civilians, and one-third of Afghanistan's population had been displaced.

Tibet

92,000 deaths out of a population of about 6 million.

Some sources... Sorry, no RT.

https://www.ranker.com/list/worst-atrocities-by-communist-regimes/daveesons

Mao's Great Leap Forward 'killed 45 million in four years' | The Independent

Hitler vs. Stalin: Who Killed More? | by Timothy Snyder | The New York Review of Books

OK! So the USA only killed 20 million.
That is what I said. Thanks for corroborating.

 

[Fledermaus]

OK! So the USA only killed 20 million.
That is what I said. Thanks for corroborating.

Corroborating WHAT?

I waved the BS flag on your 20 million.

You do understand that means I think your claim is BS... Right?

Or didn't your RT Training cover that phrase.

STILL waiting for You to corroborate 20 Million.

 

[Fledermaus]

What you left out of WWI was the Ottoman Empire which was carved up into different countries by the victors at Versailles without regard to religion or tribal loyalty. Only how the French and British mandates would be made easier. One of the main reasons we have had so many problems and wars in the middle east can be traced back to the drawing of country boundary lines by the west at Versailles.

Korea, The agreement before Japan's surrender was that the USSR would accept the Japanese surrender in North Korea, north of the 38 parallel and the United States accept the surrendering Japanese south of the 38th Parallel. The agreement was to remain in effect until the country of Korea could come to terms and create a unified government. But the cold war took place prior to that agreement on a unified government by the Korean People and we ended up with two different countries.

With Israel, what they won in war should be theirs to keep since it was the Arab countries that kept invading them trying to wipe them off the map.

Vietnam is a different ballgame. Once again an agreement was made on the surrender of the Japanese in Vietnam or as it was known French Indochina. Vietnam like Korea was divided with the English in the South to accept the surrender of the Japanese and Nationalist China in the north to do the same there. But the English soon tired of the turmoil in the south and let the French back in to re-establish their colonial rule. This lead to the 1954 Geneva Agreements after Dien Bien Phu in which the Vietnamese people were to vote on whom would rule the whole of Vietnam in 1956. Diem of South Vietnam reneged on the vote since the North had more people and the North was sure to win. We back Diem's not holding the election and as you said, the rest is history.

the thing is in both Korea and Vietnam the division of those countries was to be temporary.

Well stated.

 

[JBG]

You are 100% correct and are actually making my point. The only thing you left out is that it is not the U,S. who starts these wars. I could identify who but that is apparently against the rules of this sub-forum. How about that, a forum that actively seeks to suppress the truth.

There are no rules preventing you from stating an opinion about who started the wars...

But be prepared to get fact-slapped if you play DA JOOOZ card.

The facts about control of the world come from the great late 19th Century work Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Secondary authority though equally supportive is Mein Kampf.

 

[Indian Giver]

There are no rules preventing you from stating an opinion about who started the wars...

But be prepared to get fact-slapped if you play DA JOOOZ card.

I think that you should read the rules again for the Middle East forum. I know the rules and abide by them. Do you?

 

[Grand Mal]

The facts about control of the world come from the great late 19th Century work Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Secondary authority though equally supportive is Mein Kampf.

Really? There's still someone who believes that the Protocols is something other than a complete, farcical fabrication?
No, wait, this post is you being subtle and sarcastic, right? The Protocols and Mein Kampf, just having a little joke.
Right?

 

[Fledermaus]

The facts about control of the world come from the great late 19th Century work Protocols of the Elders of Zion. Secondary authority though equally supportive is Mein Kampf.

The Protocols are a hoax.

 

[Fledermaus]

I think that you should read the rules again for the Middle East forum. I know the rules and abide by them. Do you?

This has zero to do with the Middle East forum....

 

[Indian Giver]

This has zero to do with the Middle East forum....

This thread is in the Middle East forum and there are specific rules that everyone has to agree to abide by before they post here.

 

[Fledermaus]

This thread is in the Middle East forum and there are specific rules that everyone has to agree to abide by before they post here.

What rule would have been broken?

Please be clear and concise.

 

[JBG]

Really? There's still someone who believes that the Protocols is something other than a complete, farcical fabrication?
No, wait, this post is you being subtle and sarcastic, right? The Protocols and Mein Kampf, just having a little joke.
Right?

The Protocols are a hoax.

I was being a little facetious. I am proudly though not observantly Jewish.

 

[JBG]

What rule would have been broken?

Please be clear and concise.

I vaguely recollect that either the thread was moved here or I had to repost it here. If I did anything wrong I'm sorry (note to mods).

 

[Fledermaus]

I was being a little facetious. I am proudly though not observantly Jewish.

I had never seen a post from you that even hinted you were on the crazy train.

Hence the reactions.

 

[JBG]

I had never seen a post from you that even hinted you were on the crazy train.

Hence the reactions.

I don't know anyone that would really cite Mein Kampf as authority. Maybe the Protocols from those that don't know better but Hitler's authorship of the other would be a strong hint as to its factual accuracy, much less sanity.

Also, you may want to clear some stored messages so you can receive more.

 

[Grand Mal]

I was being a little facetious. I am proudly though not observantly Jewish.

Whew. Thanks for the reassurance.
Me, I'm proudly though not observantly Scottish.

 

[JBG]

Whew. Thanks for the reassurance.
Me, I'm proudly though not observantly Scottish.

You are from Canada, right? What province?

And is your primary language English, Canadian or French? And what island, Queen Charlotte? There's another island further south but no one lives there, right?

 

[Grand Mal]

You are from Canada, right? What province?

And is your primary language English, Canadian or French? And what island, Queen Charlotte? There's another island further south but no one lives there, right?

(grin!)
Now I don't know whether to take this seriously or not!

 

[JBG]

(grin!)
Now I don't know whether to take this seriously or not!

The part where I ask what island, yes. Queen Charlotte?

 

[Grand Mal]

The part where I ask what island, yes. Queen Charlotte?

No, an island called Texada, between Vancouver Island and the mainland.
The Queen Charlottes are a group of islands, the biggest ones called Graham and Moresby. It;s a pretty unique place, and the Haida people who live there are kind of unique, too.
Nowadays, the whole group is called Haida Gwaii, homeland of the Haida.

 

[JBG]

No, an island called Texada, between Vancouver Island and the mainland.
The Queen Charlottes are a group of islands, the biggest ones called Graham and Moresby. It;s a pretty unique place, and the Haida people who live there are kind of unique, too.
Nowadays, the whole group is called Haida Gwaii, homeland of the Haida.

I know that the Haida and Tlingit didn't always play nicely.

 

[Grand Mal]

I know that the Haida and Tlingit didn't always play nicely.

No, they were known up and down the coast. Slave raiders, in big cedar canoes.



Those west coast natives had monumental art, those canoes and long houses and totem poles. They were so wealthy in terms of easy living and leisure that villages of a few hundreds could support full-time artists. When Capt. Cook was here on the coast, the average native he encountered lived a fuller, better life than one of his ordinary seaman at home in London.

 

[Fledermaus]

No, an island called Texada, between Vancouver Island and the mainland.
The Queen Charlottes are a group of islands, the biggest ones called Graham and Moresby. It;s a pretty unique place, and the Haida people who live there are kind of unique, too.
Nowadays, the whole group is called Haida Gwaii, homeland of the Haida.

Vancouver.... MMMMM Great memories....