Would Ectogenesis change the morality of abortion?

[Scrabaholic]

I don't understand why some people are so bent on killing babies..

Dunno, go ask them. ie. Susan Smith, Andrea Yates.

 

[Orly?]

Then you feel like you can break laws or reconstruct laws in your own mind to justify violating them?

Very funny, man...seriously.

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

 

[Orly?]

More and more women have admitted they wish they never had children.

In a small German study of 1200 women, 8 percent said they wish they had not had children.

From the article titled:

Inside the Growing Movement of Women Who Wish They'd Never Had Kids



Read more:

Mothers Who Regret Having Children - "I Wish I'd Never Had Kids"

That's a pretty terrible thing to say.. Do you think they tell their kids that when they are bad?

"I wish I would have just had a man suck you out and stab you in the head with hemostats!!"

 

[Orly?]

Well, you can have a philosophical or an emotional definition of a word, but it would be just that. Legal and scientific definitions would be the technically correct way to go,

Nah, they change with the wind.. My morality doesn't..

 

[year2late]

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

So if it comes to pass that the law takes away a woman's right to choose, then you should be ok with them disobeying the law....because that will happen en masse.

Good to know,

Like I said before, the silliness in this whole thread is that the amount of time, effort, money (let alone potential surgical and anesthesia risks for the woman)will be a clusterfudge.

There are already 400,000 in foster care and 100,000 waiting to be adopted.

The pragmatic approach would be to put more effort into prevention of unwanted pregnancy and turning an unwanted pregnancy into a wanted one.

 

[WCH]

"Decent" is in the eye of the beholder.

A decent person would assure good health care for all, a safe place to live, nourishing food to eat......

YMMV.

But decent person wouldn't OK with abortion for convenience.

 

[year2late]

But decent person wouldn't OK with abortion for convenience.

A decent person may already be struggling to care for a child.....working several jobs - which might be in jeopardy as pregnancy advances, She might be living paycheck to paycheck supporting her family already in substandard living in substandard living conditions. Your idea of "convenience" may be less like missing a nail appointment and more like losing your home or needing to leave your born child alone because you cannot afford day care.

Over half of all women that chose abortion already have a born child at home they are struggling to care for.

 

[nota bene]

A decent person may already be struggling to care for a child.....working several jobs - which might be in jeopardy as pregnancy advances, She might be living paycheck to paycheck supporting her family already in substandard living in substandard living conditions. Your idea of "convenience" may be less like missing a nail appointment and more like losing your home or needing to leave your born child alone because you cannot afford day care.

Over half of all women that chose abortion already have a born child at home they are struggling to care for.

And these women should be practicing redundant birth control.

 

[WCH]

A decent person may already be struggling to care for a child.....working several jobs - which might be in jeopardy as pregnancy advances, She might be living paycheck to paycheck supporting her family already in substandard living in substandard living conditions. Your idea of "convenience" may be less like missing a nail appointment and more like losing your home or needing to leave your born child alone because you cannot afford day care.

Over half of all women that chose abortion already have a born child at home they are struggling to care for.

Elective or for therapeutic reasons = convenience.

A decent person would make great strides and be extra vigilant to not get pregnant it were an inconvenience to have one. Tell me there's over a million women out there who just can't get that right?

 

[WCH]

And these women should be practicing redundant birth control.

Oh but you can't tell people to stop having sex. That would just be cruel to them. (s)

 

[prometeus]

I'd post more but looking at them makes me sick

There is a silver lining even in the darkest of places.

Keep attacking the pics and I'll post more for the good of humanity even if it does hurt me to do so.

That is great, please do so.

 

[Removable Mind]

If a law is unjust, a man is not only right to disobey it, he is obligated to do so." Thomas Jefferson

Jefferson was wrong if the remedy was for a person or even mob rule to overrule laws. We are a nation ruled by law. If you violate a law because YOU believe it's unjust it is the duty of our enforcement authorities to apply consequences as prescribed.

 

[Removable Mind]

It wouldn't change anything by itself, as the only people who would use them in the first place are perhaps homosexual couples, people in general who don't want to be pregnant, or by someone who can't give birth to a child in the first place. Whenever an abortion happens, it's the result of an unwanted pregnancy. However, like someone said before, if an operation were to be created that allowed a child to be moved out of a pregnant mother's womb and into an artificial womb, this would seem to create a compromise between the pro-life and pro-choice arguments.

There's a long list of negatives that are involved regarding artificial wombs, which is posted on a previous page in this thread. It's by member Year2Late.

Welcome to DP.

 

[cpwill]

CP, don't stay out the argument because someone posts something that you deem as some partisan/paranoia perspective that opposes your nonpartisan/totally rational perspective. Educate us.

You can't teach those who have no desire to learn, but only to hurl their preconceived preferences.

That being said, the Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is not controlling women - that's paranoid delusion. The Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is saving babies from being killed in the womb. OKGrannie is taking her motivation (to maintain liberty for women) and projecting opposition to it on those who oppose her means of achieving it (abortion). But Pro-Lifers are no more in it to control women than Pro-Choicers are in it because they love killing children (which is the flipside of OKGrannie's argument, because it takes the Pro-Life movements' motivation and projects opposition to it onto the Pro-Choice movement).

Share your vision of your world if you had the power over all's reproductive roles (men and women). wave your magic wand

Wave my magic wand? I would make all parents better parents by having them decide to prioritize their children. I would have men be active fathers, women be caring mothers, and have both work together to benefit their kids. If we could get that right, it would go quite a ways to healing a lot of our brokenness in other areas.

 

[Removable Mind]

You can't teach those who have no desire to learn, but only to hurl their preconceived preferences.

That being said, the Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is not controlling women - that's paranoid delusion. The Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is saving babies from being killed in the womb. OKGrannie is taking her motivation (to maintain liberty for women) and projecting opposition to it on those who oppose her means of achieving it (abortion). But Pro-Lifers are no more in it to control women than Pro-Choicers are in it because they love killing children (which is the flipside of OKGrannie's argument, because it takes the Pro-Life movements' motivation and projects opposition to it onto the Pro-Choice movement).



Wave my magic wand? I would make all parents better parents by having them decide to prioritize their children. I would have men be active fathers, women be caring mothers, and have both work together to benefit their kids. If we could get that right, it would go quite a ways to healing a lot of our brokenness in other areas.

I can certainly agree with your magic wand powers answer.

But I personally think that everybody's concerns, on both sides of the fence, will be significantly diminished if the scientific community can create long-term acting birth control for women "and men" - and governments everywhere make sure that all regions of our global populations has extremely easy access. Prevention, prevention, prevention is the answer to everybody's woes regarding reproductive matters.

We (you, me, or anybody) simply can't control our next door neighbors sexual conduct, much less our global neighbors sexual conduct. Being punitive in order to try and control them hasn't worked - ever. So this is why we have to devise a different strategy to end unwanted pregnancies.

Thanks...

 

[OKgrannie]

You can't teach those who have no desire to learn, but only to hurl their preconceived preferences.

That being said, the Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is not controlling women - that's paranoid delusion. The Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is saving babies from being killed in the womb. OKGrannie is taking her motivation (to maintain liberty for women) and projecting opposition to it on those who oppose her means of achieving it (abortion). But Pro-Lifers are no more in it to control women than Pro-Choicers are in it because they love killing children (which is the flipside of OKGrannie's argument, because it takes the Pro-Life movements' motivation and projects opposition to it onto the Pro-Choice movement).

Sorry, cp, but while a few pro-lifers may have as their principle goal that of saving lives, by far the most are motivated by saving a way of life. Preserving that way of life depends upon controlling women. In their views, women are to be under the control of their fathers until they marry, then they are to be under the control of their husbands. Try reading about the quiverfull movement or the teaching of Bill Gothard. There are others also, these people are not the tiny minority you might imagine. Perhaps you've heard of the Dugger family from the TV show "19 and Counting."

 

[cpwill]

Sorry, cp, but while a few pro-lifers may have as their principle goal that of saving lives, by far the most are motivated by saving a way of life.

:yawn: sure. And while a few Pro-Choicers may actually care about women, for most of them it's really just about killing children. :roll:

Try reading about the quiverfull movement

I know about it. 1. You are mischaracterizing it and 2. The idea that it or movements like it make a large majority of the Pro Life movement is patently ridiculous. I could just as easily use the violent side of the BLM movement to "show" that the vast majority of Hillary voters want to kill white people.


Creating hyperbolic strawman may be a good way to gin up flagging support, or keep ones self dedicated to a cause, bit that doesn't make it any less inaccurate.


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[nota bene]

Oh but you can't tell people to stop having sex. That would just be cruel to them. (s)

I didn't say that. But if you really don't want to become pregnant, this is actually pretty easy.

 

[cpwill]

I can certainly agree with your magic wand powers answer.

But I personally think that everybody's concerns, on both sides of the fence, will be significantly diminished if the scientific community can create long-term acting birth control for women "and men" - and governments everywhere make sure that all regions of our global populations has extremely easy access. Prevention, prevention, prevention is the answer to everybody's woes regarding reproductive matters.

We (you, me, or anybody) simply can't control our next door neighbors sexual conduct, much less our global neighbors sexual conduct. Being punitive in order to try and control them hasn't worked - ever. So this is why we have to devise a different strategy to end unwanted pregnancies.

Thanks...

I'm certainly fine with reducing the demand side. But, as I told the OP, I don't think that solves the ticket any more than machines solved slavery, or the existence of sex dolls solves rape

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[nota bene]

:yawn: sure. And while a few Pro-Choicers may actually care about women, for most of them it's really just about killing children. :roll:




I know about it. 1. You are mischaracterizing it and 2. The idea that it or movements like it make a large majority of the Pro Life movement is patently ridiculous. I could just as easily use the violent side of the BLM movement to "show" that the vast majority of Hillary voters want to kill white people.


Creating hyperbolic strawman may be a good way to gin up flagging support, or keep ones self dedicated to a cause, bit that doesn't make it any less inaccurate.


Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk

Yes, patently ridiculous. Illogical and grossly unfair too.

 

[Scrabaholic]

BTW I think your beloved abortions are hurting young women..

They agree to an abortion pushed on them by planned parenthood without understanding the far reaching moral consequences and then are scarred for life over their choice to kill their baby..

In many cases you are talking kids into killing their babies by telling them it is better for the short run.. Sure having a baby at 16 is going to suck for a while but knowing you killed your babie for another 50 years is going to suck a lot more..

Who ever has a baby and 5 years later they say "I wish I had an abortion", no one, or only very terrible people..

PP doesn't talk anyone into aborting. They support whatever choice the woman makes.

95% of women who abort do not regret it.

Hardly Any Women Regret Having an Abortion, a New Study Finds


There are a lot of women who regret having children.

Mothers Who Regret Having Children - "I Wish I'd Never Had Kids"

I miss my old life: Women reveal their regrets about having children | The Independent

 

[year2late]

And these women should be practicing redundant birth control.

Men and women who do not wish to have children should use birth control.

 

[prometeus]

And while a few Pro-Choicers may actually care about women, for most of them it's really just about killing children.

Seriously? Is this sarcasm, trolling or really just plain idiotic drivel?

 

[prometeus]

That being said, the Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is not controlling women - that's paranoid delusion.

No, that is just fact, reality. When you dictate to a woman when she has to procreate that IS control.

The Pro-Life Movement's primary goal is saving babies from being killed in the womb.

Right, so they can suffer or even die after they are born. Saving life is a crock of crap of epic proportions.

 

[cpwill]

Seriously? Is this sarcasm, trolling or really just plain idiotic drivel?

That you read the post indicates you know precisely what it is - a response in kind to a hysterically paranoid strawman.