With Impeachment, have the Democrats abused their power?

[Unitedwestand13]

Agreed, at the same time, the charges that they are pressing don't really have much of a criminal feel to them. I maintain my argument that this is all a sideshow to get people from seeing how ****ty their noms are (at least partially).

Judge John Pickering was impeached by the House of Representatives and removed from his post by the senate in 1803 on the charges of being intoxicated while on the bench and for improper handling of property cases.

If a judge can be impeached for simply being drunk on the bench, then the standards for impeachment are really not that high.

 

[narrowroad]

Well, Obviously the Democrats feel there was a crime

oh, they FEEL.....

too bad they never THINK

or DO anything for the People

 

[narrowroad]

I want him to win a second term, but I worry they attempt assassination. Nothing would surprise me with these psychopaths.

I have had the same thought..

you know things are bad in your once so American country when ... you have such thoughts..

 

[bradt99]

I have had the same thought..

you know things are bad in your once so American country when ... you have such thoughts..

I have to assure myself that Trump has the best security team around him. JFK didn't and look what happened.

 

[bradt99]

You seem to be secretly hoping that that happens. :shock:

No, you all are just masters at it. Look what you all did to Abe Lincoln. I'm trying to figure what you all saw in John Wilkes Booth? All I saw was a pathetic loser who couldn't handle the results of the Civil War.

 

[bradt99]

If anybody wanted to attempt an assassination Trump would already be dead. He is the real psychopath.

LOL. Compared to MAxine Waters, AOC and the rest of the squad, Trump is a saint.

 

[bradt99]

I really think congress needs to be disbanded. I'm tired of the opposition party going after the opposing party in the WH. Enough is enough!! The republicans need the majority in the house back. We need to get things done for the American people that actually impact their lives.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

I really think Congress needs to be disbanded. I'm tired of the opposition party going after the opposing party in the WH. Enough is enough!! The Republicans need the majority in the House back. We need to get things done for the American people that actually impact their lives.

Even if the House of Repressentatives turns red, there will still be the same partisan bickering unless they have a supermajority.

 

[Hari Seldon]

There is no crime...

... have Democrats bused their power?

Oh yes.

No.

You mean like trying to get foreign governments to spy and dig up dirt on their political rivals? Nope. The scumbag general bone spurs who also had his personal lawyer try and dig up dirt is the one who abused his power. Makes payoffs and obstruction related to adultery with a porn star seem like a distant memory. Is he still looking for Obama's birth certificate?

 

[bradt99]

Even if the House of Repressentatives turns red, there will still be the same partisan bickering unless they have a supermajority.

Well, McConnell needs to get rid of the damn filibuster in the senate.

 

[bradt99]

You mean like trying to get foreign governments to spy and dig up dirt on their political rivals? Nope. The scumbag general bone spurs who also had his personal lawyer try and dig up dirt is the one who abused his power. Makes payoffs and obstruction related to adultery with a porn star seem like a distant memory. Is he still looking for Obama's birth certificate?

If anyone is a scumbag, it's Joe Biden.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

If anyone is a scumbag, it's Joe Biden.

When has Joe Biden ever used foreign leaders to win elections, refused to pay taxes or release his tax returns, criticized ambassadors for doing their jobs correctly, and claimed he is above the law?

 

[Lutherf]

There is no crime...

... have Democrats bused their power?

Oh yes.

No.

The Articles of Impeachment are absurd.

The Obstruction of Congress charge appears to be based in the idea that the Executive has no right to oppose Legislative actions. That's entirely anathema to the principles of Separation of Powers. If one branch of government has no right to oppose, legally, either of the other branches then that branch is no longer equal. Oversight powers of congress are not unlimited and unquestionable.

The Abuse of Power charge is equally absurd in that it's ENTIRELY within the Executive's responsibilities to conduct diplomacy with foreign nations. For this charge to stick they would need to prove that Trump's motivation with his "ask" to Zelensky was entirely personal and had no national interest aspect whatsoever. The witnesses to the committee all testified that corruption in the Ukraine was HUGELY problematic. Zelensky ran on that issue himself! There is also no question that the Bidens were involved in a situation that could easily have contributed to or taken advantage of that corruption. The Obama State Department was concerned about the matter. To suggest that an investigation into Burisma and the Bidens was solely for personal political gain is ridiculous. Furthermore, there is absolutely ZERO direct evidence that the purpose of the investigation was even CONSIDERED for such a purpose. Every bit of "evidence" the Democrats proffered was conjecture.

Now, that being said, are the Democrats abusing their legislative power. Well, probably not from a legal standpoint but what they ARE doing is using their powers to harass the Executive. It's dirty politics to the Nth degree and if everything goes right the voters will express their displeasure with those antics come next November.

 

[Hari Seldon]

If anyone is a scumbag, it's Joe Biden.

Really? Does he have a charity that was used as his private piggy bank and forced to pay $2.0 million in fines? Did Joe have an adulterous relationship with a porn star and than have his personal attorney pay her hush money and than lie about knowing about any of it? Has Joe declared bankruptcy numerous times screwing over plenty of people for work and services performed? Did Joe run a scam University? 5 deferment cadet fake bone spurs is the champion scumbag.

 

[Your Star]

Trump committed multiple crimes. He should be impeached and then removed from office.

 

[Patriotic Voter]

Lutherf, your own logic about Congress also applies to the President. If Congress can't force the President to do something due to separation of powers, the opposite must be true. Would you get mad if the President forced Congress to do something or are you just an avid Trump supporter?

 

[dairyair]

Dershowitz has been out there saying this impeachment is not according to the Constitutional powers that are delegated, and he's something of an intelligent lawyer.

In any case, the Federalist Papers make it pretty clear the impeachment power was not supposed to be used for political disagreements. It sure feels like that's what this is to me. It all has a Stalinesque "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" feel. It doesn't help that they've been squealing about impeachment since election day, long before any of the stuff they're supposedly impeaching him for happened.

What political disagreement?
Just 1 hr after the impeachment vote the house passed NAFTA 2, with the help of the WH in writing it. Sounds like agreement to me.

 

[dairyair]

oh, they FEEL.....

too bad they never THINK

or DO anything for the People

It seems like it. But the Senate sits on their hands.

Hammill said Pelosi’s office also compiled a second list in December of 90 pieces of legislation that have passed the House, more than 60 of them with at least 50 Republican votes.

“There’s a perception that the House is really partisan these days, but the actual numbers show otherwise,” Hammill said.

Senate sitting on 290 bills already passed by House; tension mounts | TheHill

 

[dairyair]

No, you all are just masters at it. Look what you all did to Abe Lincoln. I'm trying to figure what you all saw in John Wilkes Booth? All I saw was a pathetic loser who couldn't handle the results of the Civil War.

Yep, those southern conservatives were very upset with how the war of slaves turned out.

 

[dairyair]

Well, McConnell needs to get rid of the damn filibuster in the senate.

When was the last time the senate actually filibustered? 100 yrs ago?

 

[Luther]

oh, they FEEL.....

too bad they never THINK

or DO anything for the People

What do you mean?

You heard of Obamacare?

That one was suppose to implode remember?(LOL)

 

[ocean515]

What is a process crime?

The two articles of imipeachment that were passed today are directly related. The only fact being left out is how many Republican Senators agree with Mitch McConnell.

Look it up if you don't know hat "process" crimes mean.

And they had nothing to do with impeachment.

You need better training before logging in.

 

[ocean515]

Dershowitz has been out there saying this impeachment is not according to the Constitutional powers that are delegated, and he's something of an intelligent lawyer.

In any case, the Federalist Papers make it pretty clear the impeachment power was not supposed to be used for political disagreements. It sure feels like that's what this is to me. It all has a Stalinesque "show me the man and I'll show you the crime" feel. It doesn't help that they've been squealing about impeachment since election day, long before any of the stuff they're supposedly impeaching him for happened.

I agree with everything you have written.

However, the Constitution did give the traitorous Democrats the power to pursue their coup. That can't be denied.

What can be said is that the Democrats have engaged in activities that are an insult to the Constitution and the powers that it grants them.

The bill they have incurred in pursuit of their objective will be collecting interest for a long time to come.

 

[diz]

The rule of evidence is still needed, but he is saying it is a political process, not a legal one. There is alot of confusion on impeachment by people of both sides, nearly to the extent of the electoral college(which I swear everyone here gets wrong).

I would agree there is nothing to prevent it from becoming a political process -- except the integrity of the politicians involved (oopsie). But the intent was for it to be more like an actual determination of innocence or guilt than a partisan show trial. In this sense I would argue that while the Democrats may have operated within the letter of the Constitution they have not acted consistently with its intent.

They have not demonstrated Trump committed a "high crime", nor really even seriously attempted to do so. They have acted as if impeachment were the goal, and the crime is just a minor detail they could just assert happened once they had the political will worked out.

This is a very bad precedent, and entirely inconsistent with the intent of the Constitution.

 

[Redress]

I would agree there is nothing to prevent it from becoming a political process -- except the integrity of the politicians involved (oopsie). But the intent was for it to be more like an actual determination of innocence or guilt than a partisan show trial. In this sense I would argue that while the Democrats may have operated within the letter of the Constitution they have not acted consistently with its intent.

They have not demonstrated Trump committed a "high crime", nor really even seriously attempted to do so. They have acted as if impeachment were the goal, and the crime is just a minor detail they could just assert happened once they had the political will worked out.

This is a very bad precedent, and entirely inconsistent with the intent of the Constitution.

It is, specifically, by design and intent, a political process. It is not a legal process, law enforcement is not involved.