'Willful Ignorance.' Inside President Trump's Troubled Intelligence Briefings

[JasperL]

Maybe instead of just insulting people you don't know, like a child, you could lay out honestly what you think trump's foreign policy is in error of? And while you're at it, how you'll respond when the next Democrat has damaging insights from briefers is leaked?

You're deliberately missing the point. If you want to know what that is, you can respond to what that person agreed with and that he quoted. It's right there at #149.

 

[<alt>doxygen]

Maybe instead of just insulting people you don't know, like a child, you could lay out honestly what you think trump's foreign policy is in error of?

Trump insults the American IC, and anyone else who doesn't agree with him. Like a child. He's been doing that his whole life. That's how how he won the Republican nomination - insulting everyone else and stooping lower than anyone else would. For some reason that plays with his fan club, so sometimes I refer to them in Trumpese.

These government agencies are staffed with knowledgeable professionals, people who aren't political appointees, toadies or hacks. Attkinson seems to have become a hack. That's disappointing, as Jasper noted.

Specific foreign policies? What IS his Syria policy? Why does he give NK something for nothing? What's with his coziness with Putin and the authoritarian Russian state? Is he sending troops to Venezuela? What POTUS tweets major policy decisions before discussing them with anyone else in government? Then we find out everyone else disagrees with him. If he was right most of the time it would be one thing, but he isn't.

His China policy regarding IP, hacking, etc. is a bright spot, but that's the only one of significance. I think most of the trade war nonsense is counterproductive, but that will take time to play out.

And while you're at it, how you'll respond when the next Democrat has damaging insights from briefers is leaked?

Sent from my SM-T587P using Tapatalk

You'll need to translate that sentence. Maybe the taptalk slipped?

 

[Saladin4]

Too funny...trump and intelligence...2 words that don't go together...trump is a preening self centered con man.....He could careless about the "intelligence agencys"

 

[Vern]

er uh J, remember this post. Yea, I accused you of thinking President Obama was born in Kenya. I posted "you" instead of "you and yours".

Please, please show me proof of that.....How freakin dare you....

You weren't really sure if he was born in America but you were clearly calling him "not a natural born citizen". Yea, you were a birther. Unless you can prove someone forged your signature at the bottom. How freakin dare me indeed.

i found this while surfing, and pondering your question:

Obama is not a natural born citizen, because his father was not a US citizen. His father was a British subject, and because of that, Obama was born a subject of the Crown and later became a citizen of Kenya and Indonesia, when adopted by Lolo Sotoro. Even if he was born in Hawaii, and his mother was old enough to pass US citizenship on to him, he would still only be a citizen — not a natural born citizen.

Natural born status must exist at the moment of birth. It can not be earned, or received at a later date, or by a retroactive law.

Knowing this, we are being told that Obama is qualified? Yes, he may be a citizen, though I doubt it, but he was never a natural born citizen, and can not be President, if we honor the Constitution.

British Nationality Act of 1948 (Part II, Section 5): Subject to the provisions of this section, a person born after the commencement of this Act shall be a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies by descent if his father is a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies at the time of the birth.

Obama’s British citizenship was short-lived. On Dec. 12, 1963, Kenya formally gained its independence from the United Kingdom. Chapter VI, Section 87 of the Kenyan Constitution specifies that:

1. Every person who, having been born in Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

2. Every person who, having been born outside Kenya, is on 11th December, 1963 a citizen of the United Kingdom and Colonies or a British protected person shall, if his father becomes, or would but for his death have become, a citizen of Kenya by virtue of subsection (1), become a citizen of Kenya on 12th December, 1963.

The 14th Amendment does not confer natural born citizen status anywhere in its text. It simply states that a person born in the United States is a Citizen, and only if he is subject to the jurisdiction of the United States.

Obama was not subject to the jurisdiction of the United States. He was a Subject of the United Kingdom. A natural born citizen would not be born subject to British jurisdiction or any other jurisdiction other than the United States.

What is a Natural Born Citizen?

Now couple that with the law as it existed at the time in Hawaii. The mother did not meet the required term of 5 years, in order to confer NBC on Barry.

I don't know, seems like alot to weed through legally in order to prove that he isn't an NBC, and before any of this gets settled considering the legal wrangling going on Barry may have finished his term.


j-mac

 

[Nickyjo]

Well, isn't this a bit of snotty reporting from Mr. Walcott from Time....It isn't that these things are out there by yet more anonymous sourcing within the Obama politicized Intel services, but that the fact that some within those ranks are more than willing to talk to MSM media sources whom they know viscerally hate this President....

Here's how Sharyl Attkinsson lays it out in the Hill....



Ms. Attkinsson doesn't use the term, but I will...What we have seen for the past two years, and continuing is America's first Coup d'etat...And if not actually full blown, and complete with Troops marching into the White House to arrest, and remove President Trump, that is the dream...The next type would be a political coup....And that is what we are seeing...This is Obama's true legacy.

I think you are hyperventilating. What does Obama have to do with this? The comparisons I have seen are with the times FDR and Wilson were incapacitated, and folks ran the government in their "absence." Trump's lack of knowledge and apparent light work schedule make it seem natural, if still scary albeit comforting, that others would take charge. We have already heard that they take stuff off his desk to prevent his more questionable proposals from coming to pass. This is just more of the same.

 

[Saladin4]

I think you are hyperventilating. What does Obama have to do with this? The comparisons I have seen are with the times FDR and Wilson were incapacitated, and folks ran the government in their "absence." Trump's lack of knowledge and apparent light work schedule make it seem natural, if still scary albeit comforting, that others would take charge. We have already heard that they take stuff off his desk to prevent his more questionable proposals from coming to pass. This is just more of the same.

You forgot Reagan....History shows he was pretty much out of it his last 4 years

 

[Todzilla]

Well I suppose Trump should pay attention to intelligence briefings and quit endangering America's security. I don't know of the extend of the conspiracy theory here, though it doesn't seem to be quite as extreme as the OP makes it seem. Though hysterics are certainly part of the Trumpeteer Propaganda Portfolio.

This aspect of the Trump Presidency may not be related to conspiracy, just narcissism.

 

[Todzilla]

You forgot Reagan....History shows he was pretty much out of it his last 4 years

Maybe, but his hair always looked good.

 

[j-mac]

I think you are hyperventilating. What does Obama have to do with this? The comparisons I have seen are with the times FDR and Wilson were incapacitated, and folks ran the government in their "absence." Trump's lack of knowledge and apparent light work schedule make it seem natural, if still scary albeit comforting, that others would take charge. We have already heard that they take stuff off his desk to prevent his more questionable proposals from coming to pass. This is just more of the same.

I am not "hyperventilating".... I am rightfully disgusted that liberal career government workers, including the people giving the President of the United States his daily briefings, would violate that sanctity, and talk about what goes on in the meeting between the briefer's, and the President....It is a violation of trust, and privacy....How can ANY President do their job when they can never be sure what is going to be released to the Press in order to embarrass them? Not to mention what could be made up...All I can say is just wait until the next Democrat President, I have the feeling that you people will not like this treatment coming back at ya....

 

[Conservative]

Trump insults the American IC, and anyone else who doesn't agree with him. Like a child. He's been doing that his whole life. That's how how he won the Republican nomination - insulting everyone else and stooping lower than anyone else would. For some reason that plays with his fan club, so sometimes I refer to them in Trumpese.

These government agencies are staffed with knowledgeable professionals, people who aren't political appointees, toadies or hacks. Attkinson seems to have become a hack. That's disappointing, as Jasper noted.

Specific foreign policies? What IS his Syria policy? Why does he give NK something for nothing? What's with his coziness with Putin and the authoritarian Russian state? Is he sending troops to Venezuela? What POTUS tweets major policy decisions before discussing them with anyone else in government? Then we find out everyone else disagrees with him. If he was right most of the time it would be one thing, but he isn't.

His China policy regarding IP, hacking, etc. is a bright spot, but that's the only one of significance. I think most of the trade war nonsense is counterproductive, but that will take time to play out.



You'll need to translate that sentence. Maybe the taptalk slipped?

Interesting now how all these gov't officials are so intelligent when the spout opinions that support yours. Were these same intelligent career politicians intelligent when they said Saddam Hussein had WMD or is just selective intelligence when they say something you support?

It is quite enjoyable watching the radical left going ballistic when the President kicks back as the left isn't used to this. They beat down, Reagan, GHW and GW Bush, destroyed John McCain and the Mitt Romney showing that if you get in the way of radical socialism you are going to get the wrath of the media and left against you.

Donald Trump has done absolutely nothing to hurt you, your family, or the country as the actual results show so you have to word smith everything the President says or people you want to believe says all to promote your ideology. You are truly representative of what is wrong in this country today, radical liberalism trying to destroy an individual and promoting tabloid politics

 

[Atomic Kid]

I am not "hyperventilating".... I am rightfully disgusted that liberal career government workers, including the people giving the President of the United States his daily briefings, would violate that sanctity, and talk about what goes on in the meeting between the briefer's, and the President....It is a violation of trust, and privacy....How can ANY President do their job when they can never be sure what is going to be released to the Press in order to embarrass them? Not to mention what could be made up...All I can say is just wait until the next Democrat President, I have the feeling that you people will not like this treatment coming back at ya....

The violation of trust is between the American people and this President's failure to honor the oath he took to protect and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. These people whom are imploring the President to his job are doing theirs by upholding that same oath.

 

[Amelia]

From last May:

How Bill Clinton Stopped White House Leaks (And why the Trump administration will struggle to replicate his strategy.)

President Clinton also tried to launch investigations to smoke out who was leaking. (He apparently suspected George Stephanopoulos.) When Leon Panetta was appointed chief of staff in the summer of 1994—at roughly the same point in Clinton’s first term as the current moment in Trump’s—one of the first tasks that Clinton assigned him was to catch the leaker.

“I kept telling him, ‘Look, if we take our time and resources trying to figure out who the hell was leaking what, A, we’ll never really determine what happened, and B, it will divert us from the primary mission,” Panetta told me last year.

Panetta argued that trying to hunt for leakers was like trying to treat symptoms while ignoring the disease itself.

“The key for me I think was ultimately if I could build that sense of team within the White House, where people felt like they were part of a team and were loyal to that team, then the problem of leaks began to heal itself,” he said.

The effort seems to have worked. The White House continued to leak at times, as all do, but increased comity within the team helped Clinton win reelection and then weather impeachment during his second term.

Leaks will happen. But the most important thing to do for reducing them is to build a strong team. Sometimes Trump and his defenders act like he doesn't want to build a strong team -- that it's part of his strategy to have a brawling team where everyone is at each other's throats -- including him and the way he berates people who are busting their humps for him. I think they're treating it like a strategy because the alternative is to be frank about how Trump doesn't know now to actually build a healthy team. But whether it's deliberate choice to foster a den of vipers and call it a team or whether Trump doesn't know how to do anything else, there is no indication that Trump can or will do the first step needed to cut down on leaks. So leaks will continue to be a big thorn in his side, but in that way they will serve the country because as depressing as it is, it is good that we know what is happening inside this dysfunctional White House.

 

[j-mac]

The violation of trust is between the American people and this President's failure to honor the oath he took to protect and defend the constitution of the United States against all enemies, both foreign and domestic. These people whom are imploring the President to his job are doing theirs by upholding that same oath.

Oh Please....Just you wait til the next Democrat President...I am pretty sure that should the same tactics be used against him or her, your reply will take on a different tone....And I'll be there to remind you...

 

[sangha]

Oh Please....Just you wait til the next Democrat President...I am pretty sure that should the same tactics be used against him or her, your reply will take on a different tone....And I'll be there to remind you...

We do not have to wait. We just have to look at how your side treated Obama.

IOW, your threats are empty

 

[j-mac]

We do not have to wait. We just have to look at how your side treated Obama.

IOW, your threats are empty

Not even comparable....Just you wait...I know I'll be loving it....

 

[sangha]

Not even comparable....Just you wait...I know I'll be loving it....

No need to wait

We have already seen that the right has no morals or principles, just as your posts demonstrate

So go ahead and make threats. The ****s I give can be determined by starting at zero and counting backwards

 

[j-mac]

No need to wait

We have already seen that the right has no morals or principles, just as your posts demonstrate

So go ahead and make threats. The ****s I give can be determined by starting at zero and counting backwards

 

[sangha]

Your newest post sounds just like your earlier ones.

 

[Vern]

Oh Please....Just you wait til the next Democrat President...I am pretty sure that should the same tactics be used against him or her, your reply will take on a different tone....And I'll be there to remind you...

and I was there to remind you that you were a birther. Just like I remind conservatives that they used to be against deficits, golf, vacations, undermining our allies/embolden our enemies. Is there anything you guys haven't flip flopped on?

 

[j-mac]

Your newest post sounds just like your earlier ones.

As does yours.

 

[j-mac]

and I was there to remind you that you were a birther.

Except that when I asked you to provide quotes from myself that showed that I was a birther, you ignored that, never provided any such thing, and continue to this day to falsely call me that. I guess to you everyone that voted for Donald Trump is a birther, whether or not they actually were.

Just like I remind conservatives that they used to be against deficits, golf, vacations, undermining our allies/embolden our enemies.

So, now you agree that Obama was undermining our allies, and emboldening our enemies....Hmmmm....

Is there anything you guys haven't flip flopped on?

I could ask y'all the same...

 

[Nickyjo]

I am not "hyperventilating".... I am rightfully disgusted that liberal career government workers, including the people giving the President of the United States his daily briefings, would violate that sanctity, and talk about what goes on in the meeting between the briefer's, and the President....It is a violation of trust, and privacy....How can ANY President do their job when they can never be sure what is going to be released to the Press in order to embarrass them? Not to mention what could be made up...All I can say is just wait until the next Democrat President, I have the feeling that you people will not like this treatment coming back at ya....

You are absolutely right about the leaks. The officials might have quit in protest and spoken to the media about what they know. I think you are dead wrong about the "liberal government workers" trope, however. You and Donald may dislike what he is being told, but intelligence agencies haven't been in the habit of recruiting liberals. Almost by definition, their personnel are far more dedicated to the truth than politicians who complain. I believe that some are distressed with what they see, and are acting out of good will because they are worried.

What disturbs me on this topic is when the intelligence says that Iran is complying with the agreement, our allies seem to agree, and Trump says they are not. The questioner should askhim for his alternate sources, but they don't. Better for him would have been for Trump to have made some reference to reports he had seen, reports he was planning to bring to our allies, (tho not to Russia and China) to have them reconsider the agreement. I'm forced assume that Trump dislikes the Iran agreement because it was Obama's partial doing. Our self-absorbed political culture doesn't encourage reporters to ask how the UK, France, Germany, Russia and China were all duped along with Obama. Similarly on NKorea. If things work out, Trump could get Nixon-like credit for opening up to that country, assuming the intelligence (those pesky people) shows they are behaving on issues that disturb us. Again, I believe NK is Trump's thing, for which he does not have to share credit, and true to form, he has reversed course on Cuba, Obama's thing. Also typical of Trump, in my view, is his changing the name of NAFTA, but not much of its substance.

Muhammed Ali made a name for himself by proclaiming that he was "the greatest." But he did it with a slight smile and a twinkle in his eye, letting us know he was putting us on. Trump doesn't twinkle. When he says he is the greatest prez in US history for his first two years (Lincoln and FDR, anyone?) he believes it. That weird attitude might explain the leaks.

 

[sangha]

As does yours.

Correct

My earlier posts are honest and factual and yours were whiny and hysterical

 

[Vern]

Except that when I asked you to provide quotes from myself that showed that I was a birther, you ignored that, never provided any such thing, and continue to this day to falsely call me that. I guess to you everyone that voted for Donald Trump is a birther, whether or not they actually were.

Oh no j, you were saying "I'm not sure its true" but you kept posting birther nonsense and (read this slowly) you said he wasn't a NBC. That's birtherism no matter how you try to spin it.

So, now you agree that Obama was undermining our allies, and emboldening our enemies....Hmmmm....

no no silly, I've said no such thing. I'm just pointing out the hypocrisy of conservatives. You were mad about that when you falsely accused President Obama of it but when trump actually does it, crickets. Oh and you guys also flipped flopped on deficits after falsely accusing President Obama of ballooning the deficit. Trump is actually ballooning it and again, crickets.

I could ask y'all the same...

go ahead and ask. Unlike you I remember what I post. Its easy when you only post what you believe.

 

[j-mac]

You are absolutely right about the leaks. The officials might have quit in protest and spoken to the media about what they know. I think you are dead wrong about the "liberal government workers" trope, however. You and Donald may dislike what he is being told, but intelligence agencies haven't been in the habit of recruiting liberals. Almost by definition, their personnel are far more dedicated to the truth than politicians who complain. I believe that some are distressed with what they see, and are acting out of good will because they are worried.

What disturbs me on this topic is when the intelligence says that Iran is complying with the agreement, our allies seem to agree, and Trump says they are not. The questioner should askhim for his alternate sources, but they don't. Better for him would have been for Trump to have made some reference to reports he had seen, reports he was planning to bring to our allies, (tho not to Russia and China) to have them reconsider the agreement. I'm forced assume that Trump dislikes the Iran agreement because it was Obama's partial doing. Our self-absorbed political culture doesn't encourage reporters to ask how the UK, France, Germany, Russia and China were all duped along with Obama. Similarly on NKorea. If things work out, Trump could get Nixon-like credit for opening up to that country, assuming the intelligence (those pesky people) shows they are behaving on issues that disturb us. Again, I believe NK is Trump's thing, for which he does not have to share credit, and true to form, he has reversed course on Cuba, Obama's thing. Also typical of Trump, in my view, is his changing the name of NAFTA, but not much of its substance.

Muhammed Ali made a name for himself by proclaiming that he was "the greatest." But he did it with a slight smile and a twinkle in his eye, letting us know he was putting us on. Trump doesn't twinkle. When he says he is the greatest prez in US history for his first two years (Lincoln and FDR, anyone?) he believes it. That weird attitude might explain the leaks.

Regardless, ANY President, and that includes Democrats have a right to obtain counsel, and briefings from people within the government with the expectation that those having those conversations with him keep their opinions, insights, and content to themselves...Period.

Now, whether or not the bureaucracy is largely filled with more liberal individuals, that is not in question....Many reports over time, have shown exactly that...So, it's not out of the realm of consideration to think that in the midst of rampant hatred among liberals for this President, that nothing is out of bounds when it comes to trying to embarrass anything he does...