Why they are angry

[Good4Nothin]

We'll never know. Communism nor socialism has ever really existed, there have been many totalitarian that dressed up as on or the other but neither has ever existed.



"I've" never have known anybody (I've lived in the U.S. all my life) that wants to a communist or socialist economic system for these United States.<--period Not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare.

Interesting how you contradicted yourself there. Communism and socialism have never actually been tried -- coulda been a great idea! Haha, maybe we should try it!

Then you say you never knew anyone who wants it here in the US. It has never been tried, could be a good idea, but no one wants it. :bs

 

[bullseyelqcs]

Leftists should embrace those governments in poor third world nations because they do not have carbon-burning industrialization, they do not have rich financiers stimulating business growth, they do not have individual rights over the rights of governmental authorities and so forth.

I, on the other hand, embrace capitalism and the benefits it brings to world civilization. Thank God for rich businessmen who stimulate business growth for personal reasons. Thank God for industrialization in spite of ignorant fears of weather trends. Thank God for the freedom to worship Jesus and buy guns. And so forth.

Wow....way to trade the church altar for the one in some businessmans boardroom.

 

[Irwin Corey]

Interesting how you contradicted yourself there. Communism and socialism have never actually been tried -- coulda been a great idea! Haha, maybe we should try it!

I didn't say "we should try it", not even "maybe". But, I'll stand by my statement; "Communism nor socialism has ever really existed, there have been many totalitarian (governments) that dressed up as one or the other but neither has ever existed." At least not on a "national government policy" scale.

Then you say you never knew anyone who wants it here in the US. It has never been tried, could be a good idea, but no one wants it. :bs

Again, not what I said was: "I've" never have known anybody (I've lived in the U.S. all my life) that wants to a communist or socialist economic system for these United States.<--period Not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare.

(striking out an unintended "to") I never said "no one want's it", I said: "Not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare."; by "they" I mean actual human beings and by rare I meant in 69 years of living as a natural born AmeriCAN I've never met a true Socialist or Communist.

"I" think the America you all (not trump necessarily, "I" don't think he has a clue what it means, or cares, beyond being a catchy phrase that get's his base fired up") are "AGAINING" about was the America I grew up in. Small locally owned business's that provided jobs to the local economy and kept and banked the profits locally to strengthen the local economy where the owner knew and cared about his employees, where there was much more variety of product on the shelves, where jobs WITH benefits were plentiful … <--that's the vision of America we ALL AGAIN about.

It wasn't pure capitalism nor was it socialism. It was a good mix of Capitalism and Social PROGRAMS (not socialism) that underpinned society with JOBS with BENNIFITS, GROWTH, and a SOCIAL SAFETY NET that made America the GREATEST economy the world had/has ever known ("has", because we still are the greatest economy in the world, something trump doesn't want you to know.).

The march towards PLUTOCRACY started by Regan is FAR more dangerous and likely than the USA becoming communist OR socialist. PLUTOCRACY will NEVER bring back THAT America AGAIN.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Thank God for the freedom to worship Jesus and buy guns.

:lamo

 

[Good4Nothin]

What 'Marxism', and where exactly in America is it being manifested? Details please.

Directly and indirectly. Some Marxists don't even know they are Marxists. It's basically a sense of outrage that some people are much better off than others. That workers have bosses. That life can really suck sometimes. Marxists think they can fix all that by getting rid of the rich, evil, greedy rulers.

 

[Good4Nothin]

I didn't say "we should try it", not even "maybe". But, I'll stand by my statement; "Communism nor socialism has ever really existed, there have been many totalitarian (governments) that dressed up as one or the other but neither has ever existed." At least not on a "national government policy" scale.

If communism and socialism never have been tried, than why don't you think it should be tried? (By the way, it most definitely HAS been tried, many times, and FAILED HORRIBLY).

Again, not what I said was: "I've" never have known anybody (I've lived in the U.S. all my life) that wants to a communist or socialist economic system for these United States.<--period Not saying they don't exist, but they are extremely rare.

Well you can't make generalizations based on who you personally know. There are many anti-capitalists in this country. Many of them are academics, who have an influence on young people.

Anti-capitalists now vaguely point to Scandinavia, or worker-owned business. But they still long for a classless society where everyone is taken care of by the central government.

 

[Irwin Corey]

If communism and socialism never have been tried, than why don't you think it should be tried?

Because, I believe, America hit on the best compromise of free enterprise and social justice/equality during the 50's and early 60's.

(By the way, it most definitely HAS been tried, many times, and FAILED HORRIBLY).

Name me one truly Communist or Socialist Government.

Well you can't make generalizations based on who you personally know. There are many anti-capitalists in this country. Many of them are academics, who have an influence on young people.

Anti-capitalists now vaguely point to Scandinavia, or worker-owned business. But they still long for a classless society where everyone is taken care of by the central government.

All I said, IMHO, true communists and socialists are rare. I don't believe there is a strong "anti-capitalist" sentiment, even amongst liberals in America. I think there is a yearning for a level playing field, truly free markets, and policies the promote prosperity for ALL Americans, not just the prevailed few and their multi-national corporations that we've embraced since Regan.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Because, I believe, America hit on the best compromise of free enterprise and social justice/equality during the 50's and early 60's.

How would you know it's the best if socialism/communism never were tried?

Name me one truly Communist or Socialist Government.

Communism and socialism were fantasies, as Marx defined them. You can't turn that kind of fantasy into a practical reality. But they certainly did try, very hard. Communism is the dream of a classless society, where everyone is equal and no one rules over anyone. Marx never explained what could possibly make this dream world happen.

All I said, IMHO, true communists and socialists are rare. I don't believe there is a strong "anti-capitalist" sentiment, even amongst liberals in America. I think there is a yearning for a level playing field, truly free markets, and policies the promote prosperity for ALL Americans, not just the prevailed few and their multi-national corporations that we've embraced since Regan.

Yes, as a society ages it becomes more unequal. This is probably mostly because of inheritance. I don't know if anyone has truly sensible ideas for how to limit this tendency towards inequality. Going after corruption would be a good start, but no one dares.

 

[Irwin Corey]

How would you know it's the best if socialism/communism never were tried?

Fair enough, I guess you're admitting that your deepest darkest fear, communism and socialism, is a boogeyman that never existed except in your nightmares. "I" still believe America was very close to having it perfectly right in the 50's and early 60's, I would be happy if we could recapture that.

Communism and socialism were fantasies, as Marx defined them. You can't turn that kind of fantasy into a practical reality. But they certainly did try, very hard. Communism is the dream of a classless society, where everyone is equal and no one rules over anyone. Marx never explained what could possibly make this dream world happen.

So you can't name one, I was pretty sure you couldn't. I can, I think Vietnam today is the closest thing to communisum that's ever been attempted; guess the hippies were right, we never should have been there and not one other communist domino fell. Still wouldn't trade it for the America I grew up in.

Yes, as a society ages it becomes more unequal. This is probably mostly because of inheritance. I don't know if anyone has truly sensible ideas for how to limit this tendency towards inequality. Going after corruption would be a good start, but no one dares.

NO, the have's have always, given the chance … like Regan has given the 1% in America, always put their thumb on the scale to benefit themselves; like they have been doing since the 80's. It has nothing to do with and aging society, it has everything to do with the wealthy being allowed to use their wealth to buy beneficial political favors.

I notice you haven't even tried to defend your oh so objective OP. You never intended to be objective, just wanted to slam your fellow countrymen … AGAIN. -sad

 

[DamnYankee]

The left's anger comes out of suffering from depression. Many leftists self identify as being the victim of anxiety, depression, and borderline personality disorders.

 

[Good4Nothin]

The left's anger comes out of suffering from depression. Many leftists self identify as being the victim of anxiety, depression, and borderline personality disorders.

Where did you get that idea?

 

[Good4Nothin]

Fair enough, I guess you're admitting that your deepest darkest fear, communism and socialism, is a boogeyman that never existed except in your nightmares. "I" still believe America was very close to having it perfectly right in the 50's and early 60's, I would be happy if we could recapture that.

We don't fear real socialism/communism, since they don't exist. What we don't want is the horrors that have resulted from the ATTEMPT to implement Marx's fantasy.

 

[Irwin Corey]

We don't fear real socialism/communism, since they don't exist. What we don't want is the horrors that have resulted from the ATTEMPT to implement Marx's fantasy.

You and me both, all the wars America has ever fought, including the Revolution, were against totalitarian plutocratic monarchies or dictatorships, even in the case of the most recent ones where we were at least told that's what we were fighting against.

But, by far, the biggest and most sinister threat to OUR Constitution is the present push by the oligarchs, created by Regan's voodoo economics, who are trying desperately to install and imperial presidency that they are in complete control of. That's not a "socialist's bogeyman", that's immediate and real. And, if successful, it will be so surreptitious you'll never know it's happened until it's too late.

 

[Irwin Corey]

The left's anger comes out of suffering from depression. Many leftists self identify as being the victim of anxiety, depression, and borderline personality disorders.

Across the spectrum of American's mental problems exist. Attempting to pin them down to any one segment is prejudicial and just plain wrong. Actually your post proves you may be a sufferer yourself.

 

[Good4Nothin]

You and me both, all the wars America has ever fought, including the Revolution, were against totalitarian plutocratic monarchies or dictatorships, even in the case of the most recent ones where we were at least told that's what we were fighting against.

But, by far, the biggest and most sinister threat to OUR Constitution is the present push by the oligarchs, created by Regan's voodoo economics, who are trying desperately to install and imperial presidency that they are in complete control of. That's not a "socialist's bogeyman", that's immediate and real. And, if successful, it will be so surreptitious you'll never know it's happened until it's too late.

And I assume you think the cure for this is "progressive" policies of more taxing and more wasting. You trust the central government because, after all, we elected it.

You think that, before Reagan, there was less inequality thanks to the New Deal and Unions. Correct? It had nothing to do with the leveling effect of the Great Depression, and jobs and prosperity had nothing to do with fighting and winning WWII.

So all we need now is a higher minimum wage, more labor unions, free higher education, free healthcare. Did I forget anything? And that will lessen inequality and improve our lives.

 

[TobyOne]

Honestly, I don't think most Americans are very angry or even care about politics. They care about politics only to the extent it impacts their lives - which mostly is very little. Trump won because he went to places where people were concerned about feeding their families. They voted for him and rejected the candidate who campaigned on "social justice" based on distorted media facts - "hands up, don't shoot", "white hispanic" etc etc. Its mostly BS that only a small percentage of people care about.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Honestly, I don't think most Americans are very angry or even care about politics. They care about politics only to the extent it impacts their lives - which mostly is very little. Trump won because he went to places where people were concerned about feeding their families. They voted for him and rejected the candidate who campaigned on "social justice" based on distorted media facts - "hands up, don't shoot", "white hispanic" etc etc. Its mostly BS that only a small percentage of people care about.

I didn't say most Americans are angry. I was talking about political extremists, especially Marxists (now usually called leftists or progressives).

 

[TobyOne]

Oh, I see. Well, they're mostly ****ed in the head. I think that explains it adequately.

I didn't say most Americans are angry. I was talking about political extremists, especially Marxists (now usually called leftists or progressives).

 

[Irwin Corey]

And I assume you think the cure for this is "progressive" policies of more taxing and more wasting. You trust the central government because, after all, we elected it.

You think that, before Reagan, there was less inequality thanks to the New Deal and Unions. Correct? It had nothing to do with the leveling effect of the Great Depression, and jobs and prosperity had nothing to do with fighting and winning WWII.

So all we need now is a higher minimum wage, more labor unions, free higher education, free healthcare. Did I forget anything? And that will lessen inequality and improve our lives.

You know what they say about ass u me.

I do think know OUR Government gets a bad wrap. Yes, it fails sometimes, overspends sometimes, is crooked sometimes, but, for the most part it does an amazing job of protecting U.S., providing infrastructure and organization in a chaotic world, there is so much it does right that it never gets credit for. Trashing OUR government for the little things it does wrong is much more "feel good" than recognizing all the good it does for so many. And, no, I'm not, necessarily, for higher taxes.

Before Reagan there was less inequality, and yes some of that can be credited to New Deal programs. Again, unions by and large get a bad rap, I admit at their height they had gone overboard on demands, regulations and wages. But it would be totally unfair not to recognize that before unions the working man was used, abused and underpaid; they should be given recognition for the good they did and still do where they are allowed. The Great Depression put a magnifying glass on the inequities of American life but without New Deal programs and unions common people would never have risen to the heights they did during the 50's and into the 80's. War 2 absolutely was a leg up for America, it expanded our industrial infrastructure while the rest of the world had theirs beat to a pulp. All those things contributed to the America you are AGAINING about.

I think what we need now most of all, is for every damn one of us to be brother and sister AmeriCANs first, last and foremost; then work together to be sure that we ALL prosper. Donald tRumps divisiveness is sure to make America fail, probably sooner than later. All the nitpicking you've listed contributes to that divisiveness. For America and AmeriCANs to realize their FULL greatness, whatever bits and pieces make that happen, can only be achived IF we work together to figure out what those bits and pieces are.