Why should a server be tipped a percentage of the meal cost?

[disneydude]

Tipping habits reflect character, or lack thereof. Have you noted any relationship between political lean and tipping habits?

Not really. I will say, however, that back when I waited tables, smoking was allowed in restaurants. I always found that I made more money working in the smoking section for a couple of reasons. I found that smokers also tended to drink more which increased the size of the tab and thus my tip. I also found that smokers tend to be people who seek to enjoy life more and thus spend more on meals and are more generous tippers. I dislike smoking and would not advocate it.....but that was my personal experience with waiting on people.

 

[calamity]

Why should a server be tipped a percentage of the meal cost? Where did this idea start? Why does that make a difference?

Ok, if a table runs up the tab and orders round after round of alcohol, and the server is constantly running back and forth for drinks, sure. That makes sense. The effort is there.

But if a customer orders a $25 steak or a $10 hamburger, the effort is the same. (Presumes no extra courses, as many places have eliminated those.) Why should the steak customer be expected to pay more for a tip simply because their meal cost more? At 20% you're talking $5 vs $2, and for what?

Question presumes a simple dining experience with no extras or drama.

We had an interesting experience on vacation. Our server was an intern from the Philippians. She was actually paying them to work there--in a round about way--as part of her education. So, I inquired if she received the tips customers left. She balked at first, but then admitted that they pool the tips and spread them around to all the employees. I was not sure I believed her, meaning that I suspected the hotel took its cut.

So---in essence, the tip is a 20% surcharge on your meal. Simple as that.

 

[justabubba]

I have read, though not experienced personally, that in Japan it is considered literally insulting to tip. It implies that their quality of service must be bought.

that was not my experience. tho, my time living among the japanese people was half a century ago, prior to Japan, Inc
in that era, the typical japanese worker received a very low wage. the tip given was seen as respect for the quality of work that they performed. and it was consistently exceptional
and again, those who were tipped would often reciprocate with some form of lagniappe. like our native American culture, to not return a gift with a gift was to lose face

 

[radcen]

We had an interesting experience on vacation. Our server was an intern from the Philippians. She was actually paying them to work there--in a round about way--as part of her education. So, I inquired if she received the tips customers left. She balked at first, but then admitted that they pool the tips and spread them around to all the employees. I was not sure I believed her, meaning that I suspected the hotel took its cut.

So---in essence, the tip is a 20% surcharge on your meal. Simple as that.

If so, I would rather they simply add said surcharge to my bill and leave it at that. They should include a notice on the menu, too, of course.

Also, I believe the business taking a cut is illegal, though there may be some exceptions that I am unaware.

 

[calamity]

If so, I would rather they simply add said surcharge to my bill and leave it at that. They should include a notice on the menu, too, of course.

Also, I believe the business taking a cut is illegal, though there may be some exceptions that I am unaware.

Foreign immigrant interns working on some temp Visa. I would be shocked if they let them keep tips. But, even if they do, the fact that our server has to share them with all the other employees is bull****. We tip her, not the cook, bartender and hostess.

That being said, I worked restaurants while in college. I often paid out a portion of my tips to the bartender and hostess for services they performed for me to help me get better tips. But, that is not the same as throwing all the tip money in a giant pool and splitting evenly.

 

[radcen]

You are conveniently leaving out a big part of the equation and that is....the business plan assumes servers receive tips and the plan is adjusted accordingly. If you eliminate tipping and increase the payout to servers....the cost of the meal will go up accordingly.

That has not been my experience or observations. To be fair my sample size is three states, Arizona, California, and Iowa. California does not allow tipped workers to be paid less than MW. Servers get MW plus tips. Arizona and Iowa do allow tipped employees to be paid less. I have found no discernible difference between either prices or tips in any of these locations.

When restaurants, etc., are comparable, of course.

 

[Cephus]

And if tips weren't part of the expected rewards of the job, most of them probably would find a different job. But the reality is that tips are part of the wages of the job. That's how the labor market operates for this type of work. There are no pure and true principles of how all wages should be earned They actually deserve every penny they make, because it is the practice accepted and followed by enough customers who do tip. Practice is reality, theory is for rigid ideologues.

Then they can. The labor market only works that way because consumers accept it. Nobody forces them to tip anyone and if consumers collectively stopped tipping, there would be a fundamental change in the way servers were paid. Frankly, I've had enough really bad servers that I would disagree that they deserve every penny they make. Lots of them just don't care.

 

[Cephus]

Yeah. Some of my friends think I'm a cheapskate for contantly giving low tips: while they complain about bad service! They shut up when I gave a $100 tip for a $35 meal. The service was just that good. People just don't get it. I don't care if someone "needs this job to live". I need my job too, and I try to do it well. If it's that important to a person then that person should do the job well, not just expect a handout.

I don't constantly give low tips, but I don't mindlessly give 20% either. I give what I think the service was worth. Amazing service gets more than 20%. Awful service gets nothing. I couldn't care less what their personal problems are. I care how they perform. If they want better tips, they need to perform better. I don't understand why people can't comprehend that.

 

[Cephus]

Do you prefer being waited on by capable, proficient people when you go out for dinner, or is the high-school kid behind the counter all you ask for? 'Cause you get what you pay for and if customers and employers want competent people they have to pay them, one way or another.
Might be easier for you if the price went up 15% to pay wages that attract decent people.

I prefer being served by capable, proficient people, but that's not always what you get. If I get someone who is capable and proficient, I tip them accordingly. I don't just tip because some slob decided to show up to work. That's the thing, it's merit-based. If they deserve it, they get paid more. If they don't, I see no reason why they should get paid more, or at all for that matter.

 

[Cephus]

Boy, aren't you are the life of the party.

I actually deal with reality. Why don't you give it a shot? Nobody is holding a gun to these people's head. They voluntarily take jobs with that pay structure. But you can't take that job and then complain when you actually have to do that job. That's just stupid.

 

[Cephus]

Tipping habits reflect character, or lack thereof. Have you noted any relationship between political lean and tipping habits?

That the left are stupid with their money? Yes, we've all noticed that.

 

[disneydude]

That has not been my experience or observations. To be fair my sample size is three states, Arizona, California, and Iowa. California does not allow tipped workers to be paid less than MW. Servers get MW plus tips. Arizona and Iowa do allow tipped employees to be paid less. I have found no discernible difference between either prices or tips in any of these locations.

When restaurants, etc., are comparable, of course.

Most servers are not going to work for minimum wage. Thats where the discrepancy lies.

 

[radcen]

Most servers are not going to work for minimum wage. Thats where the discrepancy lies.

Not sure what you mean.

 

[RAMOSS]

I actually deal with reality. Why don't you give it a shot? Nobody is holding a gun to these people's head. They voluntarily take jobs with that pay structure. But you can't take that job and then complain when you actually have to do that job. That's just stupid.

There is a difference between worrying about 'reality' and having an opinion. Ethnics and politics are opinion.

 

[Cephus]

There is a difference between worrying about 'reality' and having an opinion. Ethnics and politics are opinion.

You can have any opinion you like. But in a debate, it's how you defend your opinions that matters.

 

[radcen]

You can have any opinion you like. But in a debate, it's how you defend your opinions that matters.

Not really. An articulate person can make a repugnant opinion sound good. Likewise, an inarticulate person can't make a good argument about a good opinion to save their life. Neither makes said topic/opinion any more or less good or bad.

You talk about "reality", don't switch to perception when it's convenient for the debate.

 

[PoS]

I prefer being served by capable, proficient people, but that's not always what you get. If I get someone who is capable and proficient, I tip them accordingly. I don't just tip because some slob decided to show up to work. That's the thing, it's merit-based. If they deserve it, they get paid more. If they don't, I see no reason why they should get paid more, or at all for that matter.

Mr. Pink, is that you? (NSFW)

 

[disneydude]

Not sure what you mean.

You indicated that you haven't seen a difference in the price of meals where the restaurant is allowed to pay less than minimum wage or has to pay minimum wage. In each case....the work included tips. If you eliminate tips, the restaurant is going to need to pay a higher wage and that cost will be passed along to customers in the price of a meal. Servers are not going to work for minimum wage like McDonald workers.

 

[sangha]

If so, I would rather they simply add said surcharge to my bill and leave it at that. They should include a notice on the menu, too, of course.

Also, I believe the business taking a cut is illegal, though there may be some exceptions that I am unaware.

Tip pooling is a common practice in the restaurant industry. It is meant to encourage cooperation and mutual support among the employees.

 

[RAMOSS]

You can have any opinion you like. But in a debate, it's how you defend your opinions that matters.

Indeed. One way that is not a very good debate tactic is hand waving missal, and saying you deal with reality.

 

[radcen]

You indicated that you haven't seen a difference in the price of meals where the restaurant is allowed to pay less than minimum wage or has to pay minimum wage. In each case....the work included tips. If you eliminate tips, the restaurant is going to need to pay a higher wage and that cost will be passed along to customers in the price of a meal. Servers are not going to work for minimum wage like McDonald workers.

Then you misunderstood what I said.

Example: Take an average meal in all three states...

California: Worker gets MW ($9/hr) plus 20% tip, meal price to customer is $10.

Arizona/Iowa: Worker gets lower than MW ($2/hr) plus 20% tip, meal price to customer is $10.

To the customer there is no difference, The price of the meal is roughly the same, they tip roughly the same. Hence a restaurant does not necessarily have to raise prices for MW employees.

Note: Numbers are rounded for example purposes.

Also, counter-service type places in states that allow for lower tha MW pay their employees MW (as their employees aren't tipped), and their prices aren't higher than sit-down restaurants with tipped employees.

I can go to Firehouse Subs and get a really nice sub meal deal for roughly $10, nice size quality sub, chips, and a drink. I don't tip because it's counter service and their employees get MW because they're not tipped.

I can go across the street to Denny's and get a comparable sandwich, fries, and a drink, for roughly $10... but then I have to tip for the service AND the restaurant paid much less in wages.

 

[disneydude]

Then you misunderstood what I said.

Example: Take an average meal in all three states...

California: Worker gets MW ($9/hr) plus 20% tip, meal price to customer is $10.

Arizona/Iowa: Worker gets lower than MW ($2/hr) plus 20% tip, meal price to customer is $10.

To the customer there is no difference, The price of the meal is roughly the same, they tip roughly the same. Hence a restaurant does not necessarily have to raise prices for MW employees.

Note: Numbers are rounded for example purposes.

Also, counter-service type places in states that allow for lower tha MW pay their employees MW (as their employees aren't tipped), and their prices aren't higher than sit-down restaurants with tipped employees.

I can go to Firehouse Subs and get a really nice sub meal deal for roughly $10, nice size quality sub, chips, and a drink. I don't tip because it's counter service and their employees get MW because they're not tipped.

I can go across the street to Denny's and get a comparable sandwich, fries, and a drink, for roughly $10... but then I have to tip for the service AND the restaurant paid much less in wages.

That's exactly my point. If the Denny's had to raise the server wages as a result of eliminating tips, you would pay more for that sandwich because the restaurant would have to make up the costs. The server at Denny's is not going to work for the same wage as the server at Firehouse subs. It entails more work. If the customer doesn't pay it in tips....they will pay it in increased meal cost.

 

[radcen]

Tip pooling is a common practice in the restaurant industry. It is meant to encourage cooperation and mutual support among the employees.

It can also cause bad feelings if one employee is deemed to be slacking and making undeserved money off the work of others.

 

[sangha]

Then you misunderstood what I said.

Example: Take an average meal in all three states...

California: Worker gets MW ($9/hr) plus 20% tip, meal price to customer is $10.

Arizona/Iowa: Worker gets lower than MW ($2/hr) plus 20% tip, meal price to customer is $10.

To the customer there is no difference, The price of the meal is roughly the same, they tip roughly the same. Hence a restaurant does not necessarily have to raise prices for MW employees.

Note: Numbers are rounded for example purposes.

Also, counter-service type places in states that allow for lower tha MW pay their employees MW (as their employees aren't tipped), and their prices aren't higher than sit-down restaurants with tipped employees.

I can go to Firehouse Subs and get a really nice sub meal deal for roughly $10, nice size quality sub, chips, and a drink. I don't tip because it's counter service and their employees get MW because they're not tipped.

I can go across the street to Denny's and get a comparable sandwich, fries, and a drink, for roughly $10... but then I have to tip for the service AND the restaurant paid much less in wages.

Not every restaurant is a family dining type chain.

And I am pretty sure that neither of them have a $25 steak dinner

 

[sangha]

It can also cause bad feelings if one employee is deemed to be slacking and making undeserved money off the work of others.

Employees that slack are fired. They not only piss off the boss, they also piss of their fellow workers by bringing the total pool down