Why Paul Ryan is right about healthcare

[Bucky]

Survival of the fittest. LOL

I am being entirely serious. Why should I have to prop up fatty that eat's McDonald's everyday or someone smoking 2 packs of cigarettes everyday?

Again, the purpose of Medicaid is based on a means test. It should be more exclusive while that money can go into education or finding cures for diseases.

 

[vegas giants]

I am being entirely serious. Why should I have to prop up fatty that eat's McDonald's everyday or someone smoking 2 packs of cigarettes everyday?

Again, the purpose of Medicaid is based on a means test. It should be more exclusive while that money can go into education or finding cures for diseases.

I know. Let them all die. "Merica!

 

[Bucky]

Just like I predicted.

I honestly believe liberals and democrats mean well. They have good ideas in theory but in practicality, they do not work. Free education, Medicaid for all, cap and trade, expand social security, expand unemployment, etc...

All these social programs have a cost. If you want to bankrupt the United States and have no country, this is how you get it done.

 

[vegas giants]

Just like I predicted.

I honestly believe liberals and democrats mean well. They have good ideas in theory but in practicality, they do not work. Free education, Medicaid for all, cap and trade, expand social security, expand unemployment, etc...

All these social programs have a cost. If you want to bankrupt the United States and have no country, this is how you get it done.

Most of Europe does all this stuff now. The middle class has a much better life. And screams that they are going bankrupt have been going on for decades....but the programs continue

 

[Bucky]

Medicaid should be expaned to include everyone....and then we would essentially have the canadian system. Its called single payer

Expanding medicaid to everyone is not a solution. It is a fiscal disaster.

Here you go vegas (ironic name given my money would be better spent in vegas than in U.S healthcare):

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/recurringdata/51301-2017-01-medicaid.pdf

Read the cbo report:

Cost of Medicaid in 2016: $389 Billion
Projected cost of Medicaid in 2027: $650 Billion

 

[Bucky]

Most of Europe does all this stuff now. The middle class has a much better life. And screams that they are going bankrupt have been going on for decades....but the programs continue

The United States is the leader of innovation, progress, medical advances and ecnomic growth.

We are not Europe. Unless you want to wear overpriced lifestyle brand clothing or eat puff pastries, we should't try to become like these mediocre countries.

 

[vegas giants]

Expanding medicaid to everyone is not a solution. It is a fiscal disaster.

Here you go vegas (ironic name given my money would be better spent in vegas than in U.S healthcare):

https://www.cbo.gov/sites/default/files/recurringdata/51301-2017-01-medicaid.pdf

Read the cbo report:

Cost of Medicaid in 2016: $389 Billion
Projected cost of Medicaid in 2027: $650 Billion

That is a bargain. Huge savings would be gained by a true single payer system. Happens in every country that has it. Guess what a MRI costs in France?

 

[vegas giants]

The United States is the leader of innovation, progress, medical advances and ecnomic growth.

We are not Europe. Unless you want to wear overpriced lifestyle brand clothing or eat puff pastries, we should't try to become like these mediocre countries.

They beat us in almost all healthcare outcomes at a fraction of the price

 

[Nickyjo]

Most of Europe does all this stuff now. The middle class has a much better life. And screams that they are going bankrupt have been going on for decades....but the programs continue

You mean to say we might have something to learn from other countries? Prepare for the standard replies: "Why don't you go live there if it's so great?" "America love it or leave it." "Socialist!" "Get your government hands off my Medicare."

 

[vegas giants]

You mean to say we might have something to learn from other countries? Prepare for the standard replies: "Why don't you go live there if it's so great?" "America love it or leave it." "Socialist!" "Get your government hands off my Medicare."

'Merica!

 

[Bucky]

That is a bargain. Huge savings would be gained by a true single payer system. Happens in every country that has it. Guess what a MRI costs in France?

I think we are reaching common ground but I don't think a solution is necesarrily in a single payer system. I would like to see more competition. Imagine a company like Amazon being able to sell pharmaceuticals or even MRI's on their website. We need more transparancy and quite frankly, a system that just makes more sense. Imagine If your entire medical history could be uploaded on your iPhone and shown to the doctor.

Remove the government and insurance companies. If we can sell healthcare like we do phones or books, that maybe the more enlightened path.

 

[vegas giants]

I think we are reaching common ground but I don't think a solution is necesarrily in a single payer system. I would like to see more competition. Imagine a company like Amazon being able to sell pharmaceuticals or even MRI's on their website. We need more transparancy and quite frankly, a system that just makes more sense. Imagine If your entire medical history could be uploaded on your iPhone and shown to the hospital.

Remove the government and insurance companies. If we can sell healthcare like we do phones or books, that maybe the more enlightened path.

Ok. What country has this pure free market model that is a huge success?

 

[Bucky]

Ok. What country has this pure free market model that is a huge success?

No one does but this free market model I think will happen. Amazon has already been in talks with the pharmacy companies. Apple as well. It is big profit industry so I am hopefully this will happen.

 

[vegas giants]

No one does but this free market model I think will happen. Amazon has already been in talks with the pharmacy companies. Apple as well. It is big profit industry so I am hopefully this will happen.

So no one in the world has been able to pull of this theory successfully and you want to experiment with the most prosperous country in the world first? Is that right?

 

[jaeger19]

In capitalism, businesses go out of business when they can no longer sustain their life. Why should the government prop up people? Is living in a horrible nursing home or in a hospital bed really living?

It is compared to living at home covered in your own feces because you are waiting for you son and daughter to get off work so they can clean you.

It is compared to being covered in pressure sores because you lay in bed waiting for your son and daughter to get off work so they can turn you.

It is compared to lying in bed or in a recliner most of the day staring at a wall.. or the TV which you can't change because there is no one to change the channel.


In a nursing home.. these patients are legally required to be kept clean.. free from pressure sores, to have activities to keep them as active as possible and stimulated.

There is no such requirement being cared for at home..

 

[jaeger19]

I am being entirely serious. Why should I have to prop up fatty that eat's McDonald's everyday or someone smoking 2 packs of cigarettes everyday?

Again, the purpose of Medicaid is based on a means test. It should be more exclusive while that money can go into education or finding cures for diseases.

Because its financially cheaper to prop up that fatty.. then pay for the services he needs when he has a stroke.

Unless.. you plan on stating that if you don't have insurance.. its fine if you let people die.. like a kid with appendicitis and no insurance.

 

[jaeger19]

That is a bargain. Huge savings would be gained by a true single payer system. Happens in every country that has it. Guess what a MRI costs in France?

Except you forget that huge savings comes at a cost... first that cost would be to our economy as you drastically lower wages and economies of most of America where healthcare is one of the few high paying and pretty much exclusively American industries. In fact.. healthcare is one of our biggest employers.

Second that cost would be in insurance coverage as most countries single payer covers far less than our Medicaid. So if you want to get that savings.. you would have to drastically lower the coverage for most americans. for example Canadian single payer doesn't pay for medications. Or outpatient therapies...

 

[jaeger19]

They beat us in almost all healthcare outcomes at a fraction of the price

Not really.. we are among the top in quality, effectiveness and timeliness of care.

Where we get "11th".. is in things like equity of care and efficiency..and that's because we don't cover about 10-15% of the population. but for the vast majority of americans.. our healthcare is superior than single payer systems.

 

[vegas giants]

Except you forget that huge savings comes at a cost... first that cost would be to our economy as you drastically lower wages and economies of most of America where healthcare is one of the few high paying and pretty much exclusively American industries. In fact.. healthcare is one of our biggest employers.

Second that cost would be in insurance coverage as most countries single payer covers far less than our Medicaid. So if you want to get that savings.. you would have to drastically lower the coverage for most americans. for example Canadian single payer doesn't pay for medications. Or outpatient therapies...

The gains would FAR outweigh any losses. Companies would not have to provide insurance for employees which would creat huge savings. And prescription medications are a fraction of the price in Canada for a reason.

 

[vegas giants]

Not really.. we are among the top in quality, effectiveness and timeliness of care.

Where we get "11th".. is in things like equity of care and efficiency..and that's because we don't cover about 10-15% of the population. but for the vast majority of americans.. our healthcare is superior than single payer systems.

A great healthcare system sucks if you can't get treatment

 

[jaeger19]

Ok. What country has this pure free market model that is a huge success?

Well actually the US... in a lot of ways we have it way better than most countries with their single payer. not that we don't have problems. but we are in a much better position from a medical standpoint than most of these countries. With some relatively small tweaks we could be in an even better position.

 

[vegas giants]

Well actually the US... in a lot of ways we have it way better than most countries with their single payer. not that we don't have problems. but we are in a much better position from a medical standpoint than most of these countries. With some relatively small tweaks we could be in an even better position.

It seems that almost everyone in Congress and the voting public disagrees with you. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion

 

[jaeger19]

The gains would FAR outweigh any losses. Companies would not have to provide insurance for employees which would creat huge savings. And prescription medications are a fraction of the price in Canada for a reason.

Well that's nice.. so corporation could simply rack up more profits for shareholders.. meanwhile the poor and middle class have less insurance.. and or have to go out and pay for a private insurance policy to cover things like medications. Which is what happens in Canada.

And yes.. Canadian drugs are cheaper.. but still costly if you don't have insurance.

But hey,. tell it to this lady..

Julie Easley had just graduated from the University of New Brunswick when she was diagnosed with Hodgkin's lymphoma. She was 23 and broke - with exactly $9 in her bank account.

Thankfully, in Canada, her medical care was free of charge - or so she thought.

In fact, while physician visits and in-hospital care like chemotherapy are covered by medicare, Ms. Easley soon learned that the essential medication she needed to take out-of-hospital was not.
"It was a shock to me that I had to pay for cancer treatment. That's not how it's supposed to be in Canada."

Drug therapies have become an essential part of treatment for many ailments, but costs of the latest and most advanced treatments have soared. The response from public health plans has been uneven and often inadequate.

Ms. Easley had no private drug insurance and New Brunswick has no publicly funded drug plan for those saddled with big drug bills.

Friends held fundraisers, she scrounged anti-nausea medication ($23 a pill) from other patients and she took out personal loans to pay for the prescription for filgrastim (brand name Neupogen), a drug to treat the side effects of chemo that staves off deadly infections ($1,600 a month).

When her cancer treatment was done, Ms. Easley was $26,000 in debt. Twelve years later: "I'm all clear of cancer, but I'm still paying for my cancer treatment."

 

[vegas giants]

Well that's nice.. so corporation could simply rack up more profits for shareholders.. meanwhile the poor and middle class have less insurance.. and or have to go out and pay for a private insurance policy to cover things like medications. Which is what happens in Canada.

And yes.. Canadian drugs are cheaper.. but still costly if you don't have insurance.

But hey,. tell it to this lady..

People in Canada LOVE their healthcare system. You can not get elected dog catcher if you say you want to do away with it. Even the most right wing advocates would scream bloody murder if you said you were going back to an american style system. That says it all.

 

[jaeger19]

It seems that almost everyone in Congress and the voting public disagrees with you. But you are certainly entitled to your opinion

Well there certainly is a lot of disinformation out there. I am trying to dispel that erroneous information that is being spouted by guys like you.. that don't know what they are talking about.

there certainly is a lot of them in politics..

I bet you did not even know before I told you that Canada basic insurance does not pay for outpatient medicines.

You have no clue what you are talking about.