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Why isn't government debt more of a problem in people's minds?

I am an isolationist. I believe that we bring every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine back to North America then tell the world to kiss our ass. So you are preaching to the choir on that part. What I disagree with is cutting the DoD budget by half. I know how that would play out.

I do too.

More money would be available to allow our kids to go to free Tertiary Education programs rather than die in some Middle-east conflict. In which case that enhanced intelligence would also make them better American citizens.

I'd like to know why most those "joining" a military-service are not doing so because they have realized the lack of discipline in the home during their secondary-schooling (which is largely the reason they failed).

Education is not a "fun-game". It is hard work - but an absolutely key component of an individual's personal development.

I wonder to what extent we've made a mockery of it with our "be-all-ya-wannabe" nonsense. Slogans rarely make for beneficial and persuasive thinking as much as hard-work does ...
 
Sidebar : 2/3 of those gun deaths were suicides.

Take suicides out of the equation, and we're down to about 4 per 100k.

The statistics do just that, they separate homicides from suicides.

Homicides:
US: 3.6
Germany: 0.7 (Ratio: 5 to 1)
UK: 0.6 (Ratio: 6 to 1)
France 0.21 (Ratio: 17 to 1)
 
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I do too.

More money would be available to allow our kids to go to free Tertiary Education programs rather than die in some Middle-east conflict. In which case that enhanced intelligence would also make them better American citizens.

I'd like to know why most those "joining" a military-service are not doing so because they have realized the lack of discipline in the home during their secondary-schooling (which is largely the reason they failed).

Education is not a "fun-game". It is hard work - but an absolutely key component of an individual's personal development.

I wonder to what extent we've made a mockery of it with our "be-all-ya-wannabe" nonsense. Slogans rarely make for beneficial and persuasive thinking as much as hard-work does ...

As for cutting DoD budget by half, what will you do with all those service men and women that are mustered out? How much will it cost us to transition them to civilian life? There isn't going to be more money available to spend because you are going to be paying them unemployment, retraining, and much more as you cut that DoD budget. Then when something happens where we need that military force, we will have to ramp up recruiting and spend even more training.

Have you ever served? Do you know what it takes to train a soldier? It is not just the eight weeks of BASIC and however many weeks of AIT for that MOS, training is ongoing over a military career. Most service men and women spend their entire military careers training for a war that they will never fight. It is important to have those well trained soldiers.

Think of it like this, you buy the handgun and you keep it in your house but you never train with it. When the home invaders kick in your front door, it's too late to get training. Sure you can point and shoot. You might even get a hit or two, if you can get the weapon loaded, safety off, and fire. On the other hand if you have trained. If you have practiced. You are a well oiled machine and know how to use that weapon. But no home invaders ever visit your house. So what, you are ready. Our military is like that handgun. It is a tool, that we may one day need.

These soldiers (airmen, marines, and sailors) all have invested in a military career. They have given up rights that you enjoy to train to protect your rights in the event that defense is needed. And you want to cut their budget by half? You want to just get rid of half of them? We have 1.3 million people on active duty. We have over 800k in the seven reserve components. This doesn't account for all the DoD support personnel that it takes to keep the military going.

Cutting by half just sounds so good, doesn't it? Why hell, you will spend it on education. Free college! No, you won't. You will spend it on unemployment, welfare, and training to transition all these people and their families to civilian life. You will spend it on bringing them back from the far points of the globe. Then when something happens you will spend it on ramping back up the military via a draft where everyone needs trained.
 
As for cutting DoD budget by half, what will you do with all those service men and women that are mustered out? How much will it cost us to transition them to civilian life? There isn't going to be more money available to spend because you are going to be paying them unemployment, retraining, and much more as you cut that DoD budget. Then when something happens where we need that military force, we will have to ramp up recruiting and spend even more training.

Have you ever served? Do you know what it takes to train a soldier? It is not just the eight weeks of BASIC and however many weeks of AIT for that MOS, training is ongoing over a military career. Most service men and women spend their entire military careers training for a war that they will never fight. It is important to have those well trained soldiers.

Think of it like this, you buy the handgun and you keep it in your house but you never train with it. When the home invaders kick in your front door, it's too late to get training. Sure you can point and shoot. You might even get a hit or two, if you can get the weapon loaded, safety off, and fire. On the other hand if you have trained. If you have practiced. You are a well oiled machine and know how to use that weapon. But no home invaders ever visit your house. So what, you are ready. Our military is like that handgun. It is a tool, that we may one day need.

These soldiers (airmen, marines, and sailors) all have invested in a military career. They have given up rights that you enjoy to train to protect your rights in the event that defense is needed. And you want to cut their budget by half? You want to just get rid of half of them? We have 1.3 million people on active duty. We have over 800k in the seven reserve components. This doesn't account for all the DoD support personnel that it takes to keep the military going.

Cutting by half just sounds so good, doesn't it? Why hell, you will spend it on education. Free college! No, you won't. You will spend it on unemployment, welfare, and training to transition all these people and their families to civilian life. You will spend it on bringing them back from the far points of the globe. Then when something happens you will spend it on ramping back up the military via a draft where everyone needs trained.

The unemployment rate is almost at rock-bottom. The economy is recovering.

They will all find jobs - just not in the DoD.

As I said, the future of our nation is NOT in the DoD, but in the Department of Education ...
 
I am an isolationist. I believe that we bring every soldier, sailor, airman, and marine back to North America then tell the world to kiss our ass. So you are preaching to the choir on that part. What I disagree with is cutting the DoD budget by half. I know how that would play out.

So do I. But, I'll bet our viewpoints on the matter don't coincide ...
 
The unemployment rate is almost at rock-bottom. The economy is recovering.

They will all find jobs - just not in the DoD.

As I said, the future of our nation is NOT in the DoD, but in the Department of Education ...

You have no concept of what it is like to get out of the service in this country and look for work. None. On one hand the bleeding heart liberals tell us that we have to keep food stamps at such a high rate because there are no good paying jobs. Then we have some wanting to cut the DoD budget by half and give away free college educations? And you wonder why the liberals control nothing at the federal level.
 
You have no concept of what it is like to get out of the service in this country and look for work. None. On one hand the bleeding heart liberals tell us that we have to keep food stamps at such a high rate because there are no good paying jobs. Then we have some wanting to cut the DoD budget by half and give away free college educations? And you wonder why the liberals control nothing at the federal level.

Bollocks!

We are just coming out of the Great Recession, the worst since the Great Depression - and people like you think everything should get back to "normal" super-quick.

Welcome to the New Normal. The unemployment rate is almost at rock-bottom. Any diminution of the those enrolled in the Armed Forces would be easy to accommodate into the work-force, if they knew how to read-'n-write and breath.

However, it will not be at the same salary levels - which is why people don't want to leave the DoD. They are being bottle-fed like babies! The DoD is today's version of Food Stamp Program, except the recipients dress up in uniforms. There is NO WAR NOWHERE. (Just regional conflicts as there has always been on this planet.)

In any recovery from a sizable recession as has occurred, there is downward pressure on salary levels nationwide. It will take another seven years to recuperate to where we were before the Great Recession in 2008 - in terms of the Employment-to-population Ratio. That's life nowadays in Donald Dork's America.

And there is not an Effing Thing that Donald Dork will be able to do about it himself. The recovery started long before he began yapping with his BIG MOUTH.

The country's economic circumstance IS improving and has been since way before Donald Dork even announced his candidacy - that it, 2014. (See that here.) And the DoD's contribution to economic-growth is practically meaningless. Try to understand the economic "Guns or Butter Riddle" - after all, you are in a ECONOMICS FORUM!

Quote from the above link:
Guns and butter refers to a famous model explaining the relationship between two goods that are important for a nation's economic growth.

In macroeconomics, the guns versus butter model is the classic example of the production possibility frontier. It models the relationship between a nation's investment in defense and civilian goods. In this model, a nation has to choose between two options when spending its finite resources. It can buy guns, butter, or a combination of both. This relationship represents a country's choices between defense and civilian spending in more complex economies.

The "guns or butter" model is generally used as a simplification of national spending as a part of gross domestic product (GDP). The nation must determine the ratio of guns and butter that best meets its needs; its choice is partly influenced by the military spending and military stance of potential opponents.

Let's put the guns down and start churning butter - and the sooner we start, the sooner we'll get to where we should be*... !!!

*Back to 63% Employment-to-population Ratio as shown in the link given above.
 
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Bollocks!

I'll bet you are still wondering why the Democrats only have complete control of six states to the Republicans controlling twenty-five. You probably do not know why the Democrats do not control the House, Senate, or White House. It's that way of thinking that you are posting. I'm sure that you are aware there aren't a lot of Representatives in the House on either side of the aisle that would support cutting DoD by half. That's because they want to keep their jobs.
 
That's merely lowering the bar. Prior to the tax-cuts, the country ran four years of surpluses and the CBO projected in January 2001, a cumulative surplus of $5.6 trillion for the 2002–2011 period. That means that CBO was projecting surpluses under the Clinton tax policies -- not "only" a $166 billion deficit and a peak $400 bil deficit.
I could care less about CBO crystal ball projections they are historically wrong and inaccurate. The fall in revenue as a result of the 2000 slowdown which turned into a recession in March of 2000 wiped out the surpluses. The Bush tax rate cuts were barely in effect by 2004...

July 1, 2001 1% Reduction in rates in all tax brackets above the 15% bracket. Since this is effective on July 1, 2001, each bracket only receives a 1/2% reduction in 2001 with the other 1/2% reduction effective January 1, 2002. Utilization of this negates the necessity of having to do straddle computations for a mid-year change in tax rates as had to be done with earlier tax law changes.


January 1, 2002 All brackets except the "Initial Bracket Amount" bracket are adjusted for inflation.
All Brackets above the 15% bracket are reduced by the second 1/2 of the 1% rate reduction.



January 1, 2003 All brackets except the "Initial Bracket Amount" bracket are adjusted for inflation.
Rate Changes in 2001 Tax Act


then they were fully implimented and then revenues took off and hit record increases. That is what had us heading back to surplus.

And the Clinton tax rate increased SLOWED revenue growth and tbe economy and almost cost him reelection along with losing the Congress.

ear - Revenues - % chng
1990 1,032.0 4.1%
1991 1,055.0 2.2%
1992 1,091.2 3.4% <- NopeClinton tax increase. Nope
1993 1,154.3 5.8% <- Clinton tax increase signed AUGUST 1993
1994 1,258.6 9.0%
1995 1,351.8 7.4% <-"Taxpayers who owed additional 1993 taxes due to the
OBRA93 tax rate increases were given the option of
deferring payment of two-thirds of the tax that was in
excess of the tax that would have been owed at the 31
percent rate. Half of the deferral taxes were to be paid in
1995 and the remaining half in 1996 [2].
http://www.irs.gov/pub/irs-soi/93inintrts.pdf
1996 1,453.1 7.5%
1997 1,579.2 8.7% -> Gingrich/Kasich tax rate cuts
1998 1,721.7 9.0%
1999 1,827.5 6.1%
2000 2,025.2 10.8%
2001 1,991.1 -2%
2002 1,853.1 -7%
2003 1,782.3 -4% Bush tax rate cuts accelerated
2004 1,880.1 5%
2005 2,153.6 15%
2006 2,406.9 12%
2007 2,568.0 7%
2008 2,524.0 -2%
2009 2,105.0 -17%
2010 2,162.7 3%
2011 2,303.5 7%
2012 2,445.0 6%
2013 2,775.1 13%
2014 3,021.5 9%
2015 3,249.9 8%

Note the Clinton came into office on strong revenue growth. Note his tax rate increases deferred additonal revenues till 1995 and 1996. Note how once the higher rates were in effect amd even with the deffered revenues tax revenue growth slowed.

In a way you have to wonder what point there even is in trying to argue here. But anyway, look: it’s been a long time since Morning in America. We’ve now been through four two-term administrations, two of which raised taxes, the other of which cut them. Which looks like it presided over a more vibrant economy?
To look solely at presidential administration versus presidential administration is folly because you ignore Congress which controls the budget and fiscal policy.

There is no evidence that cutting taxes from levels that are not confiscatory increases economic growth or increases revenue. None.

There is plenty but what are you saying taxt rates do not effect tax revenues?
 
No, it would simply mean that the world would have to wake-up and start protecting itself.

Half the military complex that exists today is enough to protect our nation. More than enough given the war-technology now out there that replaces soldiers.

Besides, where's the threat The biggest calamity to have hit the US since the Vietnam War was perpetrated by a dozen jihadists who crashed two planes into the NYC World Trade Center ...
Russia, China, Iran, NK and all the various hot spots around the world.
 
The unemployment rate is almost at rock-bottom. The economy is recovering.

They will all find jobs - just not in the DoD.

As I said, the future of our nation is NOT in the DoD, but in the Department of Education ...

We won't have a DOE if we cannot protect ourselves directly and have more global influence than our advosaries and those who would wish an end to us.

How did you come up with your cut 50% of our military force and still be able to win a two front war with reserves in place?
 
I think the point was that there isn't a "war" anywhere, we're just out and about playing World's Police Force.
 
I think the point was that there isn't a "war" anywhere, we're just out and about playing World's Police Force.

War is good for business.

Invest your son/daughter ...
 
How did you come up with your cut 50% of our military force and still be able to win a two front war with reserves in place?

The last two-front war that Americans had to fight was World War 2 - in Europe and Asia.

There has been NO TWO-FRONT WAR since.

Since then and most recently we have got shellacked in both Iran and Iraq - 4,486 U.S. soldiers have died so far in Iraq and 2,345 U.S. soldiers in Afghanistan, with 1 million U.S. soldiers wounded in both wars and a potential cost of up to $6 trillion.

And for what? We should have stayed home. (We would have found bin Laden sooner or later - and when we did finally, Uncle Sam had avoided employing Afghani elements to track, find and take him out.)

My Point: Goodness, think of it! Had we taken the SIX TRILLION DOLLARS and put those soldiers through a post-secondary education, they'd be alive today, with families and more than likely in a damn good job !

But, NO! That's not the Ahmurikin Way is it ... ?
 
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The last two-front war that Americans had to fight was World War 2 - in Europe and Asia.

There has been NO TWO-FRONT WAR since.

Well DUH we've had no world war and one reason was BECAUSE we could on two fronts.

My Point: Goodness, think of it! Had we taken the SIX TRILLION DOLLARS

What six trillion? How many more 911's would have been acceptable?
 
I think the point was that there isn't a "war" anywhere, we're just out and about playing World's Police Force.

Why isn't there one and who else is going to do it?
 
Well DUH we've had no world war and one reason was BECAUSE we could on two fronts.



What six trillion? How many more 911's would have been acceptable?

Some people absolutely MUST have the last word.

You've had yours. Do you feel better now ... ?
 
Some people absolutely MUST have the last word.

You've had yours. Do you feel better now ... ?

Is that the best you got left? If you want to pick up the discuss let me know else read sig.
 
Is that the best you got left? If you want to pick up the discuss let me know else read sig.

Discuss? You don't know the meaning of the word.

You go on Ignore ...
 
Discuss? You don't know the meaning of the word.

You go on Ignore ...

Well here is where it is left with you,

You>> Besides, where's the threat The biggest calamity to have hit the US since the Vietnam War was perpetrated by a dozen jihadists who crashed two planes into the NYC World Trade Center ...

Me>> Russia, China, Iran, NK and all the various hot spots around the world.

You>> My Point: Goodness, think of it! Had we taken the SIX TRILLION DOLLARS

What six trillion? How many more 911's would have been acceptable?

If you care to discuss the issue let me know, that's what we do here.
 
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Well, the Democrats have a 'reputation' as big spenders but that's not true. This is spending over the last two presidents, from different parties. During much of the Bush years, Republicans controlled all of government. Their spending increases far outpaced Democratic control.

usgs_line.php


This is the deficit chart:

usgs_line.php


Republicans are currently talking about major tax-cuts, which independent groups such as the Tax Foundation, say will balloon the deficit.

Democrats took control of the budget in 2007 and for fiscal year 2008 spending increased 9% and then fiscal year 2009 18%. Do show me any comparable Republican increase.
 
Democrats took control of the budget in 2007 and for fiscal year 2008 spending increased 9% and then fiscal year 2009 18%. Do show me any comparable Republican increase.
Did you happen to notice that there was this little thing called the Great Depression then? That caused more automatic spending increases, like unemployment insurance and other parts of the social safety need, not Congressional Democrats going wild with spending (that Bush would to have signed.). There were no vast new programs. It was the government that you had responding to a crisis.
 
Did you happen to notice that there was this little thing called the Great Depression then? That caused more automatic spending increases, like unemployment insurance and other parts of the social safety need, not Congressional Democrats going wild with spending (that Bush would to have signed.). There were no vast new programs. It was the government that you had responding to a crisis.

And there was a recession in 2000/2001 and no the Democrats were QUITE proud of their increased spending including cutting Bush out of the budget process completely in 2009. And thus the HUGE 9%, and only that low because Bush threatened to veto any higher and then 18% spending increases signed into law by Obama. And what did we get for all that increased spending, a budget deficit that jumped from $161B to $1,400B and staying over $1,000B for the next four years. You point your finger and blame Bush for the one year $400B and how the surpluses went away yet here you excuse the Democrats saying "oh they had a recession". You also ignore that the Democrats took control of the government 11 months before that recession started and what congresses can do is pass measures to help mitigate and soften the effects of a recession and give some measure of confidence to the markets and business. Such as the Republicans did in the 2000/2001 slowdown recession. The Democrats on the other hand were ranting about their huge spending increases, higher taxes, more regulations bigger government all around and that shut down the markets and investors and business expansion and hiring, thus we had a Great Recession/Depression as you like to call. And even when their stimulus failed the did nothing to get us into a full recovery.
 
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