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Why is abortion acceptable?

Elvira said:
Did I say that? No...I said it is a front...a facade...a fake...just as those claiming to be Christian but proving false to its works...2 Timothy 3:1-5...
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How do you know? YOu only referred to someone showing up on Sundays. As if that makes someone 'Christian.':roll:

Is praising God and treating others with compassion and brotherly love other places than church 'unChristian?' How do you know what is in people's hearts that are worshiping outside of some church?
 
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Lursa said:
How do you know? YOu only referred to someone showing up on Sundays. As if that makes someone 'Christian.':roll:

Is praising God and treating others with compassion and brotherly love other places than church 'unChristian?' How do you know what is in people's hearts that are worshiping outside of some
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Like the unborn?
 
Elvira said:
I can tell you what she is not guilty of...the taking a human life...
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Still cant answer a yes or no question eh?

Well since this is about the 3rd time you avoided it, it's easy for everyone else to see that you cannot...not and not expose how weak the grounds are for valuing the unborn over women.

Ah, the sweet smell of pro-life hypocrisy in the evening.
 
Bucky said:
Isn't it morally hypocritical to say abortion is simply a health issue/procedure and has zero ethical implications?

I just find it odd how some people can morally justify aborting a pre-birth baby that could live outside the womb, yet find aborting a baby after birth murder. That fetus pre-birth has exactly the same prospect, future and life as a baby just newborn.



Abortion, by Peter Singer

So the moral line between good and bad is simply birth? That does not seem correct IMO. I am no pro-life nut. I do not believe once an egg is fertilized that doesn't constitute a human being with rights. That's a silly argument. But to say a fetus that is viable is not deserving of rights is equally silly.

IMO if you morally can justify aborting a fetus that is 9-months old, viable to be born, you most likely justify some form of infanticide and killing a human in some circumstances, which IMO is still morally reprehnsible.

I definitely think this is worth discussing. I have received pm's here that said I shouldn't be discussing abortion because I am a man. That is BS. This is a moral issue. Just because I am a man should not disqualify me from discussing abortion!
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What if you find out that the fetus has no brain and no chance of survival after birth? Some times it is only diagnosed until the 8th month. Should that woman be forced to wait and give birth to a corpse? Late term abortions are NEVER elective and are always because of her medical doctors recommendation. You try to sound reasonable but if you want to stop those types of abortions I'm afraid you are pretty much a monster.

Occurrence
CDC estimates that each year, about 3 pregnancies in every 10,000 in the United States will have anencephaly.1 This means about 1,206 pregnancies are affected by these conditions each year in the United States.

Causes and Prevention
The causes of anencephaly among most infants are unknown. Some babies have anencephaly because of a change in their genes or chromosomes. Anencephaly might also be caused by a combination of genes and other factors, such as the things the mother comes in contact with in the environment or what the mother eats or drinks, or certain medicines she uses during pregnancy.
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Facts about Anencephaly | CDC
 
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Raelia said:
Then maybe you'd be willing to explain what species an unborn child is, if it's not a child.

At the moment of conception, the child develops a unique DNA sequence, and is biologically human. Even if we assume that it cannot be called a child(Which is quite the assumption), it would still necessarily be human since their species does not change based on stage of development.

Following this to the logical conclusion, the unjustified killing of said child or human would be inherently unethical.
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Who says the unborn has a right to life just because it has human DNA? DNA is science, it's objective, laws and rights and value are all subjective.
 
Lursa said:
Still cant answer a yes or no question eh?

Well since this is about the 3rd time you avoided it, it's easy for everyone else to see that you cannot...not and not expose how weak the grounds are for valuing the unborn over women.

Ah, the sweet smell of pro-life hypocrisy in the evening.
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It is easy for everyone to see you are not what you claim to be...a Christian..
 
iguanaman said:
What if you find out that that fetus has no brain and no chance of survival after birth. Some times it is only diagnosed until the 8th month. Should that woman be forced to wait and give birth to a corpse?
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Is that not for God to decide and not you...or are you elevating yourself into His position?
 
Lursa said:
Who says the unborn has a right to life just because it has human DNA? DNA is science, it's objective, laws and rights and value are all subjective.
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That is something an atheist would say, certainly not a Christian...
 
Re: We don't know enough to choose wisely; it may be beyond us politically/socially, even if we do k

Elvira said:
Swoosh...right over your head...:roll:
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Can answer that question honestly either?

Since you believe, in essence, that women should be subjected to govt force against their will and lie (at minimum by omission)...it's not like you are showing any positive Christian attitudes yourself.
 
Elvira said:
Christians do not need a constitution to tell them right from wrong...:roll:
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No but all Americans need the Constitution to protect them from fundamentalist Christian hate and intolerance and immoral govt force. /thread
 
Lursa said:
I said 'use force.' That means the law and legal consequences for women who choose abortion. And then what 'means' do you think the govt would use to prevent the abortion if it's against her will?
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I don't advocate that the government does anything. Force is not required for someone to remain pregnant, as stated before. However, upon having a successful abortion, that is murder, meaning that anyone who responds to this is not initiating force.
 
Elvira said:
Like the unborn?
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There's nothing in the unborn's heart...your delusion there is certainly not something that all Americans should have forced down their throats by immoral laws.

And I see once again...you cannot answer any questions...because to do so destroys your position. You answer nothing...that's how fragile and unsupportable your beliefs are.
 
Elvira said:
It is easy for everyone to see you are not what you claim to be...a Christian..
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Judge not...:mrgreen:

The only one that matters is the Lord.
 
Elvira said:
That is something an atheist would say, certainly not a Christian...
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Perfect, thank you.

Our laws are supposed to be secular.

All Christian (and atheist and anything else) women can act as the believe with our laws supporting pro-choice.

double//thread
 
Re: We don't know enough to choose wisely; it may be beyond us politically/socially, even if we do k

Lursa said:
Can answer that question honestly either?

Since you believe, in essence, that women should be subjected to govt force against their will and lie (at minimum by omission)...it's not like you are showing any positive Christian attitudes yourself.
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Where is my sign...oh wait, there it is...:bs
 
Raelia said:
I don't advocate that the government does anything. Force is not required for someone to remain pregnant, as stated before. However, upon having a successful abortion, that is murder, meaning that anyone who responds to this is not initiating force.
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Murder is a legal term and so you're wrong there.

And (govt) force is only required to keep a woman pregnant *if it is against her will* which I clearly wrote.
 
Lursa said:
Who says the unborn has a right to life just because it has human DNA? DNA is science, it's objective, laws and rights and value are all subjective.
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Laws mean nothing, they are completely arbitrary, they're opinions written on paper, and enforced by thugs with weapons, on the behalf of an organization of murderers, robbers, and kidnappers.

Rights, however, are not subjective, rights are anything and everything an individual can do without infringing on those of someone else. They are objective. In other words, your rights only end where someone else's begin. Rights are not granted by said organization of robbers, murderers, and kidnappers, what was written in the Bill of Rights is merely what they chose to claim to recognize.

Since the HUMAN has not given consent for the mother to have dominion over them, she has no right to infringe on their individual rights, and neither does anyone else. Therefor, murdering this individual is inherently unethical, regardless of whether the aforementioned organization of robbers, murderers, and kidnappers have said that they would not respond to that murder with violence.
 
Re: We don't know enough to choose wisely; it may be beyond us politically/socially, even if we do k

Elvira said:
Where is my sign...oh wait, there it is...:bs
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???Why? Because I oppose women being forced to remain pregnant against our will by the govt? That's immoral. (And you havent even disagreed! :))

I know that any unborn aborted joins Our Lord in Heaven and is reborn. I know the unborn know no pain, no suffering. (And only the extremely low-information posters think otherwise). It's a sad and difficult decision for a woman but since it is in her best interests...why is it wrong?
 
Lursa said:
No but all Americans need the Constitution to protect them from fundamentalist Christian hate and intolerance and immoral govt force. /thread
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Says the Christian...:lamo
 
Lursa said:
There's nothing in the unborn's heart...your delusion there is certainly not something that all Americans should have forced down their throats by immoral laws.

And I see once again...you cannot answer any questions...because to do so destroys your position. You answer nothing...that's how fragile and unsupportable your beliefs are.
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Says the Christian...:lamo
 
Raelia said:
Laws mean nothing, they are completely arbitrary, they're opinions written on paper, and enforced by thugs with weapons, on the behalf of an organization of murderers, robbers, and kidnappers.

Rights, however, are not subjective, rights are anything and everything an individual can do without infringing on those of someone else. They are objective. In other words, your rights only end where someone else's begin. Rights are not granted by said organization of robbers, murderers, and kidnappers, what was written in the Bill of Rights is merely what they chose to claim to recognize.

Since the HUMAN has not given consent for the mother to have dominion over them, she has no right to infringe on their individual rights, and neither does anyone else. Therefor, murdering this individual is inherently unethical, regardless of whether the aforementioned organization of robbers, murderers, and kidnappers have said that they would not respond to that murder with violence.
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Excellent! Not a single human rights organization, globally, recognizes rights for the unborn (except possibly some religious ones).

Who says the unborn have a right to life? What authority?
 
Elvira said:
Says the Christian...:lamo
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I've written here many many times that many Christians are not just an embarrassment but a direct deterrant to people wanting to become Christians. All they do is post hate and intolerance here. They do my religion more harm than good.

I dont ever do that.
 
Re: We don't know enough to choose wisely; it may be beyond us politically/socially, even if we do k

Lursa said:
???Why? Because I oppose women being forced to remain pregnant against our will by the govt? That's immoral. (And you havent even disagreed! :))

I know that any unborn aborted joins Our Lord in Heaven and is reborn. I know the unborn know no pain, no suffering. (And only the extremely low-information posters think otherwise). It's a sad and difficult decision for a woman but since it is in her best interests...why is it wrong?
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:roll:...
 
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