Why do some Democrats not want Bernie as their nominee?

[Josie]

An open discussion on the reasons why some Democrats don't want Bernie as the nominee. What does he stand for that you don't? What will the future of the Democratic Party look like if he wins the nomination? Why do you not want him as your nominee? Please discuss.

 

[X Factor]

I know the question isn’t really for me but I don’t think it’s a matter of his politics that they disagree with so much as they feel he’s a lot less likely to beat Trump.

 

[Redress]

I know the question isn’t really for me but I don’t think it’s a matter of his politics that they disagree with so much as they feel he’s a lot less likely to beat Trump.

No, it is a combination of things, including his politics(he suggested nationalizing electrical production recently as an example), the fact he is far less likely to win in November, the fact he is not, by his own admission, a democrat except when he wants something, and that he is trying to change the party into something it is not. I do not want my party taken over like Trump did with the republicans.

 

[Josie]

I know the question isn’t really for me but I don’t think it’s a matter of his politics that they disagree with so much as they feel he’s a lot less likely to beat Trump.

But we were seeing for months how Dems wanted Biden as the nominee and I think he's more likely to lose against Trump than Bernie.

I do think it's interesting how Biden was so far behind in the Iowa numbers when he was the supposed frontrunner. That happened with Jeb! last go 'round. I was one saying there's no way he's going to be the nominee, but it seemed to be the common consensus that he would be. Of course, I never thought Trump would get very far either, so....

 

[X Factor]

No, it is a combination of things, including his politics(he suggested nationalizing electrical production recently as an example), the fact he is far less likely to win in November, the fact he is not, by his own admission, a democrat except when he wants something, and that he is trying to change the party into something it is not. I do not want my party taken over like Trump did with the republicans.

Dammit. I had edited my post to say I hadn’t heard too many Democrats oppose Bernie’s ideology then you ride in here and do just that. It did make me realize that I haven’t had this specific discussion often enough to really have a fair idea of what most or a lot Democrats think of Bernie’s politics (so I edited my post back to what it was originally). You, for sure, are better qualified to answer the OP than me.

But we were seeing for months how Dems wanted Biden as the nominee and I think he's more likely to lose against Trump than Bernie.

I do think it's interesting how Biden was so far behind in the Iowa numbers when he was the supposed frontrunner. That happened with Jeb! last go 'round. I was one saying there's no way he's going to be the nominee, but it seemed to be the common consensus that he would be. Of course, I never thought Trump would get very far either, so....

I think Democrats are dealing with a lot of the same questions Republicans did in 2012 facing a fairly popular incumbent president. They’re seeking out the candidate that they mostly agree with but also one that can maybe appeal to independents or even those that lean slightly right and many don’t think Bernie is that candidate. Granted, they could also be looking at this election like many Repub voters did in 2016 when they chucked the notion of bipartisanship right out the window.

 

[Redress]

But we were seeing for months how Dems wanted Biden as the nominee and I think he's more likely to lose against Trump than Bernie.

I disagree with that. Sanders is an easy target, and will tend to make moderates and independents uncomfortable.

I do think it's interesting how Biden was so far behind in the Iowa numbers when he was the supposed frontrunner. That happened with Jeb! last go 'round. I was one saying there's no way he's going to be the nominee, but it seemed to be the common consensus that he would be. Of course, I never thought Trump would get very far either, so....

Biden did poorly in Iowa, for a variety of reasons, some outside his control, but many within his control. He is not out of the running by any means, but his odds have gone way down. He was, in some ways, a victim of Buttigieg's success, as they tend to pull from the same group of voters(much like Sanders and Warren do), and Klobuchar doing much better than expected(the third candidate pulling from that same pool). I still maintain my belief that we won't have a good view of what is going to happen until Super Tuesday(or really about a week after), but this was a bad week for everyone not named Buttigieg or Sanders.

And to answer your question in the OP more directly: common wisdom(heh) says that picking a candidate to vote for president is picking the lesser of two evils. No actually good person would put him/herself and their families through the wringer like running for or being president. In a hypothetical Trump v Sanders matchup, both candidates essentially have the evil meter pegged(note: not saying either is actually evil, just trying to extend the metaphor). Sanders would to my mind be just as bad(in some ways worse, in some not as bad) as Trump for the country. So I look to the future. Where do I want democrats to be, what do I want them standing for. And the answer to that is not with Sanders. Slow, steady progress that does not run nearly as much into the law of unintended consequences.

 

[Scorps2000]

For one he is a "Democratic Socialist", so he is socialist. I don’t believe he can beat Trump, he isn’t good for the country and a lot of young people don’t like him. I believe Mayor Pete is our best choice, he will bring out the young vote.

 

[Mr Person]

Bernie is farther left than a lot of people that tend to vote for Democrats.

And while he has decades of experience in congress, has he gotten any of these big ticket structural changes accomplished? No, he hasn't. I'm not sure Dems would be able to pass them - assuming they wanted to, because again they're not all that far left despite what DP conservatives like to claim - even if they took every house/senate seat up in the next two elections. (Maybe they would, I haven't counted).

Even among farther left ideas there are dissidents. ie, I want universal basic healthcare, but I do not want a ban on private insurance doing something like, say, paying for the bells and whistles if you're hospitalized (single occupancy room! Etc), or boutique clinics.

Others, like me, also don't want to see a one-time payoff of student debt for people who took out way more than they could ever hope to afford, went to a fancy private school over an affordable state school (even if worse ranked), then didn't pursue degrees with a reasonable chance of landing a well enough paying job (STEM?)......that payoff coming from people who DID make more careful choices. (Query: isn't there a real moral hazard there? How many 17 year olds would watch the payoff happen and think "I sure learned my lesson through what happened to those people. I won't take out huge loans unless I really have a chance of paying them off" vs "oh, great. We can just demand another bailout."

Perhaps we instead want a huge investment in improving public education, including up to advanced degrees, that people can pursue at an actually affordable cost. Some variant of one of Europe's many models would be nice.

His age is also a likely factor for some, as is Biden's.

The one major plus for people who generally vote D but don't like Bernie's policies.





Hate to break it to you, but "the left" isn't fungible, contrary to what an awful lot of DP's right wingers blare out day-in/day-out. But people have spent so damn long telling us what we believe (as learned from Hannity, Fox, Limbaugh, etc), that they don't have an idea what we truly believe.

 

[bave]

It's really not that hard. Bernie appeals to people who want free stuff and ignore how it is going to be paid for and the other negative side effects. There are a lot of democrats who like the idea of what he is saying, but understand the practical limitations and destruction his ideas would reap.

 

[smallvoice]

But we were seeing for months how Dems wanted Biden as the nominee and I think he's more likely to lose against Trump than Bernie.

I do think it's interesting how Biden was so far behind in the Iowa numbers when he was the supposed frontrunner. That happened with Jeb! last go 'round. I was one saying there's no way he's going to be the nominee, but it seemed to be the common consensus that he would be. Of course, I never thought Trump would get very far either, so....

Trump would not be President if it weren't for Hilarity. Gee, thanks, Dems.

 

[Redress]

For one he is a "Democratic Socialist", so he is socialist. I don’t believe he can beat Trump, he isn’t good for the country and a lot of young people don’t like him. I believe Mayor Pete is our best choice, he will bring out the young vote.

Everyone is a socialist to some extent. America has many policies and programs which can be classified as socialist. What you are doing is taking a label, pinning it to him, and then arguing against anything the label might mean. It is a piss poor method of debate, more dishonest than anything. As a proud member of #NeverSanders, I am not a fan of his, but stupid arguments against him ar4e, more than anything, stupid.

 

[Old 'N Chill]

I think that some of the Democrats, like Independents, think Bernie is too far left. They may want free college for those who can't afford it, but not for everyone like the rich. They may want Medicare for All, but realize that for some voters may want to keep the private option also for those happy with their health insurance, etc. This year is not the time to shoot for extremes, Democrats just have to win.

In 2016, I felt better about Bernie beating Trump, I would have been much happier to give him my vote instead of holding my nose and giving it to Hillary. For this particular election, I don't feel the same, his time has passed his repetition in debates is getting old.

I feel that Biden has a much better chance to beat Trump, he will get more votes from moderate Democrats and Independents, and it seems like he's more likely to get more votes from black voters also. With the right VP, Biden can take the win. I can't even imagine who Bernie would pick for VP, I know it won't be Warren, chattering in his ear like a hyper chipmunk.

I'm an Independent and will back whoever is chosen as the Democratic nominee. To do otherwise would be a vote for Trump and Mr. Putin.

 

[Redress]

It's really not that hard. Bernie appeals to people who want free stuff and ignore how it is going to be paid for and the other negative side effects. There are a lot of democrats who like the idea of what he is saying, but understand the practical limitations and destruction his ideas would reap.

And of course, that is an equally stupid argument. Paying for something with taxes and fees is still paying for something. It helps to abandon mindless talking points and try and actually focus on facts.

 

[bave]

And of course, that is an equally stupid argument. Paying for something with taxes and fees is still paying for something. It helps to abandon mindless talking points and try and actually focus on facts.

Yea, and that's the typical BernieBro response. However the reality is that the people who rabidly support Bernie are doing the math about paying a tiny bit more in taxes for massive government largesse.

 

[3leftsdoo]

An open discussion on the reasons why some Democrats don't want Bernie as the nominee. What does he stand for that you don't? What will the future of the Democratic Party look like if he wins the nomination? Why do you not want him as your nominee? Please discuss.

While no Democrat can beat Trump, if Bernie gets the nod, most liberals - who are HIGHLY conservative - will be unhappy.

There are two HUGE conservative groups in the US:

1) Conservatives

2) Liberals AKA sideways/upside down conservatives

Conservatives don't like Bernie.

So, most liberals (aka conservatives) don't want Bernie to be the nominee.

 

[Craig234]

An open discussion on the reasons why some Democrats don't want Bernie as the nominee. What does he stand for that you don't? What will the future of the Democratic Party look like if he wins the nomination? Why do you not want him as your nominee? Please discuss.

The #1 reason IMO is ignorance. But Bernie has always increased his support the more people that get to know him.

 

[Craig234]

BernieBro

As I've said, people who use the propaganda phrase above, mainly a Hillary attack invention, aren't worth talking to IMO.

 

[Craig234]

For one he is a "Democratic Socialist", so he is socialist. I don’t believe he can beat Trump, he isn’t good for the country

Define "socialist" and then name three Bernie policies you claim are "socialist" and bad for the country.

and a lot of young people don’t like him.

What is wrong with you? Bernie DOMINATES young voter support. "Nationally, 52% of voters under age 35 said they were supporting Sanders"

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

An open discussion on the reasons why some Democrats don't want Bernie as the nominee. What does he stand for that you don't? What will the future of the Democratic Party look like if he wins the nomination? Why do you not want him as your nominee? Please discuss.

Why are you worried about what Democrats want?
You're a self professed RW Libertarian, so we know what you want, nothing the Democrats have to offer.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

No, it is a combination of things, including his politics(he suggested nationalizing electrical production recently as an example), the fact he is far less likely to win in November, the fact he is not, by his own admission, a democrat except when he wants something, and that he is trying to change the party into something it is not. I do not want my party taken over like Trump did with the republicans.

No he didn't.
Better go check, because there is a very good chance YOUR electric utility is publicly owned right now.
There are thousands of municipal and publicly owned electric utilities and there always have been.

The opposite is a firm like PG&E, which doesn't give a damn about the safety of their infrastructure, thus when it gets dry and windy, PG&E's poorly maintained lines snap and start massive fires which they will never be adequately held responsible for.

A publicly owned or municipal utility cannot get away with that nonsense.
Bernie did not suggest "nationalizing" anything.

And the Democratic Party got taken over by wealthy Wall Streeters and corporate CEO's a long time ago, before you were even born. That's why they keep "punching Left while moving Right".
Why not just have GOP I and GOP II?

That's where we're headed.

 

[Josie]

Why are you worried about what Democrats want?
You're a self professed RW Libertarian, so we know what you want, nothing the Democrats have to offer.

Why on earth would you assume that I'm "worried"? It's just a discussion.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Others, like me, also don't want to see a one-time payoff of student debt for people who took out way more than they could ever hope to afford, went to a fancy private school over an affordable state school (even if worse ranked), then didn't pursue degrees with a reasonable chance of landing a well enough paying job (STEM?)......that payoff coming from people who DID make more careful choices. (Query: isn't there a real moral hazard there? How many 17 year olds would watch the payoff happen and think "I sure learned my lesson through what happened to those people. I won't take out huge loans unless I really have a chance of paying them off" vs "oh, great. We can just demand another bailout."

:applaud:agree

 

[Felis Leo]

Why are you worried about what Democrats want?
You're a self professed RW Libertarian, so we know what you want, nothing the Democrats have to offer.

Speaking only for myself and not for Josie, I am worried because we right-wingers would be stuck in a country run by an idiot democratic socialist just like you are stuck in a country presently run by an idiot nationalist. I would prefer our country be run by people who do not cleave to idiotic failed ideas that have ruined and impoverished entire nations.

 

[Good4Nothin]

Everyone is a socialist to some extent. America has many policies and programs which can be classified as socialist. What you are doing is taking a label, pinning it to him, and then arguing against anything the label might mean. It is a piss poor method of debate, more dishonest than anything. As a proud member of #NeverSanders, I am not a fan of his, but stupid arguments against him ar4e, more than anything, stupid.

The word "socialist" is now used in all kinds of confusing ways. However, Sanders has been a socialist, by the old definitions, all his life. And that kind of socialist is scary. Even though, if he became president, he wouldn't have the power to make this country socialist. Still, he would always go in that direction.

The economy seems to be doing pretty well now. Not nearly as well as what Trump brags about, and probably not because of anything Trump did. Still, it is functioning. Sanders has no appreciation for what a healthy economy can do for poor people. A lot of the SOTU was dedicated to explaining that a healthy economy helps workers and the poor more than big government interventions. Sanders probably doesn't believe any of that. And therefore, Sanders might do his best to slow the economy down and wind up, ironically, hurting the people he claims he wants to help.

 

[Redress]

The word "socialist" is now used in all kinds of confusing ways. However, Sanders has been a socialist, by the old definitions, all his life. And that kind of socialist is scary. Even though, if he became president, he wouldn't have the power to make this country socialist. Still, he would always go in that direction.

The economy seems to be doing pretty well now. Not nearly as well as what Trump brags about, and probably not because of anything Trump did. Still, it is functioning. Sanders has no appreciation for what a healthy economy can do for poor people. A lot of the SOTU was dedicated to explaining that a healthy economy helps workers and the poor more than big government interventions. Sanders probably doesn't believe any of that. And therefore, Sanders might do his best to slow the economy down and wind up, ironically, hurting the people he claims he wants to help.

Well, no. Sanders is, and has been for quite some time, a democratic socialist, which is not an old school socialist.