Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countries?

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

" According to the International Lesbian and Gay Association (ILGA) seven countries still retain capital punishment for homosexual behavior: Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, Afghanistan, Mauritania, Sudan, and northern Nigeria. In United Arab Emirates it is a capital offense."

You want to compare a few killings in the U.S. to state sponsored capital punishment of gays?
Can anyone really be this blind?

Who the HELL is comparing? You are the one ignoring similar stuff happening in your own backyard. It happens in my backyard as well and it is disgusting. Is there capital punishment for being gay in the US, France or Spain? No.. because the common sense has won over religious dogma.. but have no doubt that if the Christian faithful were in charge, then there would be.

20 Countries with the Highest Rates of Child Marriage*

1. Niger- Islam is practiced by 94% of the population.

2. Chad- 53.1% Islamic


3. Central African Republic-Mostly Christian


4. Mali- Mali is 98% Muslim, 2% Christian


5. Guinea- 50% Muslim


6. Bangladesh- 89.7% Muslim


7. South Sudan- Mostly Christian


8.Burkina Faso- 60.5% Muslim


9. Mozambique- mostly Christian


10. India- Hinduism


11. Malawi- Mostly Christian, 25% Muslim


12. Somalia- 99.8% Muslim

13. Nigeria- mostly Muslim


14. Nicaragua- Roman Catholic

15. Madagascar - 55% traditional

16. Eritrea- 50% Muslim

17. Ethiopia- 43.5% orthodox, 34% Muslim

18. Uganda- 84% Christian

19. Sierra Leone- 78% Muslim

20. Cameroon- mostly Christian

Where does it happen - Girls Not Brides

And so what? How about focusing on the problems of your own country, where there are religious cults that are abusing little girls? Or sex trafficking rings, or all the other **** that happens in the west that we ignore on a daily basis it seems, because we are soo focused on hating Muslims and people else where. Why is that? Why are you in denial?

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

There are tons and tons of Trump types who take advantage of outrages like in Saudi or Orlando - "Elect me and i will protect LGBT and get rid of the Muslim threat." By this they mean to deport them all except maybe athletes, and i have even heard concentration camps from some. But then the same extremist, being extremist, does things like support the anti gay North Carolina law and picks the governor who signed the Indiana "religious freedom" law as his running mate, and it's like yeah, i don't want his "protection"

This is so typical of them, act like America and their own religion have never in its history done wrong and could never inspire similar hatred. That is why these 'reminders' when it's a conservative demagogue like Trump or fox news raving about Muslims

Well Pence would through all gays in camps to "cure" them.. soo..

 

[chromium]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Gays are more likely to be violently abused by their partners, and other gays, than by straight people. There are numerous studies out there, so why don't you take the time to read them.

And please............show some proof of industrial scale abuse on females by Christians sex cults? There have been some, but industrial now?

You take hyperbole to the next level.

A lot of the young are cut off by their family and live with their partner, which also means being at the mercy of their partner because that's who owns the house/car etc. This leads to abuse easily, but who is really to blame. My vote is the family. There is the thing - in the US it's so easy and completely legal to ostracize and disown and fire someone so that is the tract the bigots usually take and not assault, which can lead to arrest. With the exception of high school where violence is still common and not seriously dealt with or included in those 'studies' of yours.

The idea that gays suffer more at the hands of each other than the hetero majority is beyond absurd. Even where the family is supportive, the roots of domestic abuse (arguments, sex) are separate from ill treatment by the outside world. One can be dealt with by society and the other is a *private* matter between the couple

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

OK, you lost on the straight on gay violence issue, so now you deflect to racism and sexism. It must be hard to kick field goals in the PeteEU stadium.

For **** sake, the FBI says that 20% of all hate crimes in the US is based on sexuality... and considering that hate crimes are vastly under reported.. then well.

https://www.fbi.gov/news/stories/latest-hate-crime-statistics-report-released

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

One church, which is being closely observed by the Feds is all you have? Where is the industrial scale that you spoke of?

One church that should not exist, and when you have so many people involved, then it is industrial.. Why are you making excuses for these child molesters?

 

[VanceMack]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Its a simple concept. Conservatives stand in opposition to Fundamentalist Islam. Liberals/Progressives must by nature then defend Fundamentalist Islam. I'm pretty sure its the law.

 

[Tanngrisnir]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Its a simple concept. Conservatives stand in opposition to Fundamentalist Islam. Liberals/Progressives must by nature then defend Fundamentalist Islam. I'm pretty sure its the law.

How quaintly and hilariously delusional.

 

[joG]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Yes. The FLDS Church. Breeding and rape is the norm, and boys are kicked out so the older male members can get young girls to mate with.. it is on an industrial scale.

What I have read doesn't really show industrial scale rape and breeding. Not my kind of culture, but I didn't see it was illegal.

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

A lot of the young are cut off by their family and live with their partner, which also means being at the mercy of their partner because that's who owns the house/car etc. This leads to abuse easily, but who is really to blame. My vote is the family. There is the thing - in the US it's so easy and completely legal to ostracize and disown and fire someone so that is the tract the bigots usually take and not assault, which can lead to arrest. With the exception of high school where violence is still common and not seriously dealt with or included in those 'studies' of yours.

The idea that gays suffer more at the hands of each other than the hetero majority is beyond absurd. Even where the family is supportive, the roots of domestic abuse (arguments, sex) are separate from ill treatment by the outside world. One can be dealt with by society and the other is a *private* matter between the couple

It is not absurd, it is happening.

CDC report: Homosexual lifestyle extremely violent

http://www.familyresearchinst.org/2009/02/violence-and-homosexuality/

A Same-Sex Domestic Violence Epidemic Is Silent - The Atlantic

Homosexual Domestic Violence: Abuse Among Gays May Be Worse For Their Health Than It Is For Heterosexuals

2 Studies That Prove Domestic Violence Is an LGBT Issue | Advocate.com

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

One church that should not exist, and when you have so many people involved, then it is industrial.. Why are you making excuses for these child molesters?

More hyperbole.............. Nobody made any excuses for child molesters, they only contradicted your constant malarky.

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Who the HELL is comparing? You are the one ignoring similar stuff happening in your own backyard. It happens in my backyard as well and it is disgusting. Is there capital punishment for being gay in the US, France or Spain? No.. because the common sense has won over religious dogma.. but have no doubt that if the Christian faithful were in charge, then there would be.

The USA is one of the most tolerant nations in the world for accepting alternative lifestyles. Would you agree?

And so what? How about focusing on the problems of your own country, where there are religious cults that are abusing little girls? Or sex trafficking rings, or all the other **** that happens in the west that we ignore on a daily basis it seems, because we are soo focused on hating Muslims and people else where. Why is that? Why are you in denial?

I'm not advocating for hatred of Muslims. Simply stating facts does not equate to hatred.

I am trying to say that importing people who come from areas of the world that still strongly endorse sexism and homophobia, you will be making western nations more sexist & homophobic. That seems like a fairly simple concept to grasp, considering the lack of assimilation they we're seeing in places with high numbers of Arab/African migration, such as France.

 

[Absentglare]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

NOTE: This is not an anti Muslim thread. It deals with a real problem in some Muslim countries. Most Muslims do not condone this.

I've watched a few documentaries over the years on Discovery, Nat Geo, and other outlets that deal with the unbelievably oppressive treatment of women and gays(and often members of other religions, or different factions of the same religion).

I remember a true crime program about a case in america, where a girl was forcibly raped, and then she was shamed by her family for being raped, and eventually murdered by her own brother, for being raped! It's relatively common in Muslim countries, and it's called "honor killing". Supposedly that girl dishonored her family by being forcibly raped..... Therefore it's ok to beat her to death.

That's just the beginning. In some countries gays are murdered. They have no civil rights and no recourse for justice. Women are treated like they are subhuman. They are merely property of the husband, to be treated any way he wants.

Now that should horrify anyone, but it's almost always whitewashed or ignored by the media, and when someone brings it up in the media or elsewhere, they are often portrayed as bigots. Or...you'll hear some moral equivalency like, "well, women in America used to not have the same rights as men". Or you'll hear, "Christians have a history of mistreatment of women".

In other words, it's the old 'two wrongs makes a right' excuse. I was reading an article that explained this in terms that also neatly describe the leftist belief that blacks and Latinos and Muslims are somehow less competent, less evolved, or less intelligent, therefore it's expected that it will take them longer to "evolve" to the point where they too will be as capable as non minorities, and Muslims eventually will learn to treat women and gays in nonviolent ways. But that they aren't at that evolved level yet, therefore we shouldn't expect as much(such as acquiring a photo id) as we would with non minorities. Its the "racism of low expectations". Some will naturally disagree with that explanation because it doesn't sound politically correct. To those people, I'd say that if it bothers you, then re-read it again, and realize it's truth. Then change that mindset....

I, for one, don't believe that Muslims, blacks or Latinos are any less capable or inherently less intelligent. I believe that it illustrates a complete lack of concern for countless battered women and gays in Muslim countries to ignore it, and callousness to excuse it, and it's motivated by political correctness run amok, combined with a political desire to pander to American Muslims by not saying anything critical of other Muslims.

We don't ignore them.

Realistically, it is culturally condescending to come into some other culture, tell them that they're primitives, tell them that we're superior, and then tell them that they need to blindly adopt our cultural values or we will render consequences.

In fact, i think that could qualify as terrorism.

The left fights ideas with ideas, not with threats or violence.

 

[chromium]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

It is not absurd, it is happening.

CDC report: Homosexual lifestyle extremely violent

Family Research Institute » Blog Archive » Violence and Homosexuality

A Same-Sex Domestic Violence Epidemic Is Silent - The Atlantic

Homosexual Domestic Violence: Abuse Among Gays May Be Worse For Their Health Than It Is For Heterosexuals

2 Studies That Prove Domestic Violence Is an LGBT Issue | Advocate.com

https://www.cdc.gov/violenceprevention/pdf/nisvs_sofindings.pdf

Oh and i'm sure none of these cases of domestic violence were ever attacked by heteros before that relationship, not at any point. Get real! Did you totally gloss over that post where 20% of hate crimes are against gays? I will mention it again then and more - 26% of gay youth are thrown out, almost 1/5 are assaulted, about 2/3 are sexually harassed in school. Gee, i can't imagine why they would turn to lives of dependence and violence and i'm sure that is in no way the fault of heterosexuals, as you claim

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Oh and i'm sure none of these cases of domestic violence were ever attacked by heteros before that relationship, not at any point. Get real! Did you totally gloss over that post where 20% of hate crimes are against gays? I will mention it again then and more - 26% of gay youth are thrown out, almost 1/5 are assaulted, about 2/3 are sexually harassed in school. Gee, i can't imagine why they would turn to lives of dependence and violence and i'm sure that is in no way the fault of heterosexuals, as you claim

I didn't gloss over anything, and I was not saying that there is no violence against gay people by heterosexuals. I corrected the person I was refuting who was spouting off mass violence against gays.

Kids in school will **** with you for wearing the wrong brand of sneakers, or how you dress...........so WTF? Adult's should know better.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

I'm not advocating for hatred of Muslims. Simply stating facts does not equate to hatred.

I am trying to say that importing people who come from areas of the world that still strongly endorse sexism and homophobia, you will be making western nations more sexist & homophobic. That seems like a fairly simple concept to grasp, considering the lack of assimilation they we're seeing in places with high numbers of Arab/African migration, such as France.

So you basically saying that because we are "importing these people", that is why we have sexism and homophobia? LOL!

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

More hyperbole.............. Nobody made any excuses for child molesters, they only contradicted your constant malarky.

Again defending child molesters.. just because they are Christian..

 

[notquiteright]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

I kinda believe in fixing your own house first. That women are abused around the world, and in many non Muslim nations BTW, is sad but my vote doesn't have much affect over there. Here, at home it just might so I chose to vote for those who support my ideals and don't want to put women back a century or two in the name of 'traditional' whatever.

Besides we have dozens of Conservative muck rackers who gladly take on the task of ranting about what happens in other countries where we can/want to do so little about it (ask the Bushes about their close friendship with Saudi 'royalty'- did that help push for women's rights based along USofA standards? How about in Afghanistan where BusHII made such a big deal about turning Afghan tribal law on it's head- how did that work out?)

There are times I think the Serenity Prayer should be mandatory in all public buildings and not the 10 commandments... eace

 

[truthatallcost]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

So you basically saying that because we are "importing these people", that is why we have sexism and homophobia? LOL!

I am trying to say that importing people who come from areas of the world that still strongly endorse sexism and homophobia, you will be making western nations more sexist & homophobic.

" The report reads: “In the last twenty years the number of reports of incidents [of homophobia] received by our association have not stopped growing, but in 2013 they exploded.”

France: Watchdog reports 78 percent rise in anti-gay attacks · PinkNews

" In 2005, for the first time there were more immigrants from Africa living in France (1962: 15.3%; 2005: 42.2 %) than from Europe.
In total, 1.5 million immigrants were from the Maghreb region (Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya).

Focus-Migration: France

Golly gee Pete, homophobia has been increasing in France over the past 20 years, and it corresponds to great numbers of people from homophobic nations moving to France. What could it possibly mean? :doh

 

[RetiredUSN]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Again defending child molesters.. just because they are Christian..

That is a BS statement and you know it, and are you doing it to save face as we all know.



Have a nice day.

 

[PeteEU]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

I am trying to say that importing people who come from areas of the world that still strongly endorse sexism and homophobia, you will be making western nations more sexist & homophobic.

" The report reads: “In the last twenty years the number of reports of incidents [of homophobia] received by our association have not stopped growing, but in 2013 they exploded.”

France: Watchdog reports 78 percent rise in anti-gay attacks · PinkNews

" In 2005, for the first time there were more immigrants from Africa living in France (1962: 15.3%; 2005: 42.2 %) than from Europe.
In total, 1.5 million immigrants were from the Maghreb region (Morroco, Algeria, Tunisia and Libya).

Focus-Migration: France

Golly gee Pete, homophobia has been increasing in France over the past 20 years, and it corresponds to great numbers of people from homophobic nations moving to France. What could it possibly mean? :doh

For the love of god...

And was there homophobic attacks BEFORE? Was there sexism BEFORE? Yes or no? Did you read the article?

France: Tens of thousands protest in Paris and Lyon against ‘family phobic’ equal marriage · PinkNews

Was that Muslims? no.. that was conservative Christians...

Homophobia and sexism exists without Muslim immigration. Time to wake up and deal with it over all, not only when there are Muslims involved and not only blame Muslims. Hell why not blame Jews? Jewish religious law is sexist as hell (and worse than Islam!)! and they dont exactly like gays either.

 

[Moot]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

...

I remember a true crime program about a case in america, where a girl was forcibly raped, and then she was shamed by her family for being raped, and eventually murdered by her own brother, for being raped! It's relatively common in Muslim countries, and it's called "honor killing". Supposedly that girl dishonored her family by being forcibly raped..... Therefore it's ok to beat her to death.

That's just the beginning. In some countries gays are murdered. They have no civil rights and no recourse for justice. Women are treated like they are subhuman. They are merely property of the husband, to be treated any way he wants.

Now that should horrify anyone, but it's almost always whitewashed or ignored by the media, and when someone brings it up in the media or elsewhere, they are often portrayed as bigots. Or...you'll hear some moral equivalency like, "well, women in America used to not have the same rights as men". Or you'll hear, "Christians have a history of mistreatment of women".

I've never heard of anyone on the left use those equivalency's for honor killings, rape, murder of gays, treating women as subhuman or property. Do you have any direct quotes or a links to your source?

In other words, it's the old 'two wrongs makes a right' excuse. I was reading an article that explained this in terms that also neatly describe the leftist belief that blacks and Latinos and Muslims are somehow less competent, less evolved, or less intelligent, therefore it's expected that it will take them longer to "evolve" to the point where they too will be as capable as non minorities, and Muslims eventually will learn to treat women and gays in nonviolent ways. But that they aren't at that evolved level yet, therefore we shouldn't expect as much(such as acquiring a photo id) as we would with non minorities. Its the "racism of low expectations". Some will naturally disagree with that explanation because it doesn't sound politically correct. To those people, I'd say that if it bothers you, then re-read it again, and realize it's truth. Then change that mindset....

I'm prettty sure the The Bell Curve is a right wing belief. In fact, I've often heard many on the right say that blacks are ignorant because they vote for Democrats, implying that they're incapable of thinking for themselves.

I can't believe that Muslims, blacks or Latinos are any less capable or inherently less intelligent. I believe that it illustrates a complete lack of concern for countless battered women and gays in Muslim countries to ignore it, and callousness to excuse it, and it's motivated by political correctness run amok, combined with a political desire to pander to American Muslims by not saying anything critical of other Muslims.

Really? :roll:

Michelle Obama has drawn attention to the severe restrictions placed on women in Saudi Arabia by not wearing a headscarf during a visit to the country after the death of King Abdullah.

https://www.theguardian.com/us-news/2015/jan/28/michelle-obama-headscarf-saudi-arabia​

It's pretty obtuse to ignore or undermine what the left does to help poor minorities, women, LGTB, Muslims all over the world and then complain they don't do anything at all. So tell me, what has the right done to help battered women in Saudi Arabia since it seems to concern you so?

 

[haymarket]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Do you have a link to the article that inspired you to write such claptrap about what the left believes? I mean how we can "re-read it again" if you won't let us read it in the first place?

Well said. This endless series of 'why does the left support Satan worship' or whatever evil of the day is in fashion gets more than a little ridiculous.

 

[cpwill]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

I ignore most problems in other countries. I do not expect much from other countries, I do from my own. I do not approve of, nor condone, many of the practices in other countries. However, there are many more pressing issues close to home. Why do you try and use other countries to excuse ours?

I think the charge (generally) from the right on this is that failure to universalize a moral value indicates hypocrisy and, sometimes, tribalism.

For example, the NCAA is pulling games from North Carolina "Because their bathroom law violates Civil Liberties". But they seem to have no problem having games in China.... it indicates that the NCAA doesn't actually support the idea of Civil Liberties, or that it's not so much about supporting Civil Liberties as it is about "virtue-signalling" opposition to Conservatives.

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[Born Free]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

Well, I certainly don't ignore the discrimination and the atrocities that women and LGBT individuals face in the Middle East.

I'm vehemently against that kind of stuff. I don't ignore it.

It seems Bubby and Hillary have ignored it for years, taking money from some of the worst discrimination countries against woman in the world.

 

[Redress]

Re: Why do so many progressives ignore sexist/homophobic atrocities in Muslim countri

I think the charge (generally) from the right on this is that failure to universalize a moral value indicates hypocrisy and, sometimes, tribalism.

For example, the NCAA is pulling games from North Carolina "Because their bathroom law violates Civil Liberties". But they seem to have no problem having games in China.... it indicates that the NCAA doesn't actually support the idea of Civil Liberties, or that it's not so much about supporting Civil Liberties as it is about "virtue-signalling" opposition to Conservatives.

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I understand your point, but it is flawed. The NCAA applying economic pressure on NC might have some effect. The NCAA trying it with China will have zero effect, and runs counter to other priorities. The real world is complex and one single issue is rarely(though not never) all that is considered. Note for the record I am against the NCAA pulling games from NC(not because I oppose people and corporations using economic pressure, but because of the nature of what the NCAA is).

I fully admit to tribalism. Not only do I care more about my tribe, I consider it fully superior to other tribes. What people are doing to each other in Africa, Europe, Asia, the ME, I care very little about. What we are doing to each other in the US, I care alot about. I do not consider that a bad thing. We do have to prioritize and use resources where they will do the most good.