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Why aren't cults and spiritual books taken seriously?

Actually, that had been considered. However, the dna and chromosome evidence does not point to this. However, when it comes to the Prokaryotic cells, there is a lot of lateral gene transfer (also known as 'horizontal gene transfer). This would have pretty much wiped out any evidence of life starting multiple times, since those genes that were most successful at lateral transfer became a common basis of all current life. It wasn't until Eukaryotas and multi cellular organisms evolved that horizontal gene transfer was no longer a factor.

Due to the intermixing of the genes, any 'roots' beyond the 'ball of mass' that is the early single celled life without a nucleus can not be traced

If it is true that there is but one "formulae" for life in any given environment then it would seem far more likely that identical multiples developed simultaneously. It seems a reasonable assumption; I therefore do not subscribe to this "tree of life" theory that is, in fact, biblically derived, of the mind of the American colonial, that predated Darwin.

The point is we cannot label "God" as anathema, or belief antithetical to science, when science is, in fact, still chasing him.
 
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If it is true that there is but one "formulae" for life in any given environment then it would seem far more likely that identical multiples developed simultaneously. It seems a reasonable assumption; I therefore do not subscribe to this "tree of life" theory that is, in fact, biblically derived, of the mind of the American colonial, that predated Darwin.

The point is we cannot label "God" as anathema, or belief antithetical to science, when science is, in fact, still chasing him.

This seems to totally misunderstanding the concept as used by science. The 'tree of life' is basically a way of classifying how close organisms are related to each other.. and one way is to examine how much DNA sequences they have in common. The chances of 'identical multiples' when it comes to exact gene sequences is astronomically insane... since you have to not only have the right genes, but they have to be on the same sequence on the strand of dna.
 
If it is true that there is but one "formulae" for life in any given environment then it would seem far more likely that identical multiples developed simultaneously.

No...the opposite in fact. Since there are other possible "formulae", that only one exists is evidence against multiple events.
 
No...the opposite in fact. Since there are other possible "formulae", that only one exists is evidence against multiple events.

You have no more proof of singular incidence than I have of multiple incidence. Applying rationality, would favor multiples.
 
You have no more proof of singular incidence than I have of multiple incidence. Applying rationality, would favor multiples.

Doesn't your faith state that God, a singularity, created the heaven and earth? Just as evolution and the big bang theory start with a singularity in my belief.

If so, the chances of the singularity being correct once out a gazillion tries is far greater than being correct multiple times.
 
You have no more proof of singular incidence than I have of multiple incidence.
I'm not claiming proof. I'm citing evidence. Fact: the basic chemical components of life on earth all shere the same basic chemical building blocks. This must be true if there was only one origin, but does not need to be true for multiple. Therefore the current evidence favors singular. What is your evidence in favor of multiple?
Applying rationality, would favor multiples.
How is my argument irrational?
 
Doesn't your faith state that God, a singularity, created the heaven and earth? Just as evolution and the big bang theory start with a singularity in my belief.

If so, the chances of the singularity being correct once out a gazillion tries is far greater than being correct multiple times.

No, I'm an evolutionary religionist. But let me tell you something: the big bang apparently did occur, for reasons that presently live outside our known laws. And it did NOT create life.
 
I'm not claiming proof. I'm citing evidence. Fact: the basic chemical components of life on earth all shere the same basic chemical building blocks. This must be true if there was only one origin, but does not need to be true for multiple. Therefore the current evidence favors singular. What is your evidence in favor of multiple? How is my argument irrational?

If one accepts abiogeneis, it's highly irrational to conclude both that there was a singular incidence and a singular surviving incidence. If we yield then to the possibility of multiples, we must also conclude, since there is but one possible formulae, that they would have evolved in precisely the same manner in any given environment. Meaning, there could in fact be multiple trees that share precisely the same historical genetic evidence.

To put this another way, on the scale of probability, the very existence of one virtually proves the existence of identical others.

I have to tell you, though, I'm not overly impressed with abiogenesis, either.

We can also easily define "intelligence." And we cannot deny that there is an intelligence that presently lives beyond all comprehension. And likely always will. How you label that then, it seems, is but a matter of faith.

The bible says, "In the beginning was the Word." And when you realize the scope of this in astrophysical form, it can blow your mind. Because that's precisely what occurred.

We can take this to the next step...

Call ourselves, say, "Evolutionists." But we cannot do this without recognizing evolution of mind, thus its genetic physiological precursor still present in all.

To fail to recognize basic truths is to be possessed of rather narrow philosophy.
 
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If one accepts abiogeneis, it's highly irrational to conclude both that there was a singular incidence and a singular surviving incidence. If we yield then to the possibility of multiples, we must also conclude, since there is but one possible formulae, that they would have evolved in precisely the same manner in any given environment. Meaning, there could in fact be multiple trees that share precisely the same historical genetic evidence.

To put this another way, on the scale of probability, the very existence of one virtually proves the existence of identical others.

I have to tell you, though, I'm not overly impressed with abiogenesis, either.

We can also easily define "intelligence." And we cannot deny that there is an intelligence that presently lives beyond all comprehension. And likely always will. How you label that then, it seems, is but a matter of faith.

The bible says, "In the beginning was the Word." And when you realize the scope of this in astrophysical form, it can blow your mind. Because that's precisely what occurred.

We can take this to the next step...

Call ourselves, say, "Evolutionists." But we cannot do this without recognizing evolution of mind, thus its genetic physiological precursor still present in all.

To fail to recognize basic truths is to be possessed of rather narrow philosophy.

Apples to oranges, evolving vernaculars, etc, etc. In short, God has won.

I want to mention that the Urantia Book actually refers to God as the First Source and Center. God is like the first action that determined every other action.
 
If one accepts abiogeneis, it's highly irrational to conclude both that there was a singular incidence and a singular surviving incidence. If we yield then to the possibility of multiples, we must also conclude, since there is but one possible formulae, that they would have evolved in precisely the same manner in any given environment. Meaning, there could in fact be multiple trees that share precisely the same historical genetic evidence.
Where are you getting the idea there is only one possible formula? The nucleotides etc are not the only possible ones. That there are other possible combinations for life, but only one that is present, is evidence for a single origin.
 
Why is that? We need answers not more questions, and I think these "spiritual" groups have a lot to contribute to science if we were only more open minded about this.

Of course, we should not blindly follow whatever comes out but it's worth considering.

We should not believe any claim of knowledge, healing ability, extraordinary abilities or existence of 'supernatural" phenomena that can not be tested and verified. Swindlers steal millions every year from the gullible and many animals are being hunted to extinction due to superstitions. Until recently, due to the retirement of the Amazing Randi, there was a million dollars waiting for someone who "... can demonstrate a supernatural or paranormal ability under agreed-upon scientific testing criteria. ..." Wikipedia
The offer was first made n 1964 and no one has collected.

Read all about it, including who has refused to be tested.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/One_Million_Dollar_Paranormal_Challenge

Note: If a phenomena or ability is so inconsistent and fragile that it can not be tested, then it is not consistent or reliable enough to be useful or for anyone to accept it with a rational justification.
 
That's not helping anyone then, both seem to be close minded to me.

Science is not closed minded. Any phenomena that can be tested, observed and repeatedly verified will be accepted as fact. That is how we discovered 'magical' phenomena like magnetism, electricity and radiation.
 
Where are you getting the idea there is only one possible formula? The nucleotides etc are not the only possible ones. That there are other possible combinations for life, but only one that is present, is evidence for a single origin.

Well, I think this calls for a biology lesson: Whatcha got?
 
No, I'm an evolutionary religionist. But let me tell you something: the big bang apparently did occur, for reasons that presently live outside our known laws. And it did NOT create life.

True, the big bang did not create life as we know it. It set up the conditions and started the ball rolling. There is no reason to believe that the conditions on earth are the only conditions that allow life to thrive.

I tend to think of the chances of life happening as being somewhat similar to the lottery. The chances of you winning on a given day are near zero. Yet the chances of somebody winning sometime is 100%. Sometimes two or more win on the same night. Same with life starting. It does not have to be right every time, nor do the same numbers always win.
 
True, the big bang did not create life as we know it. It set up the conditions and started the ball rolling. There is no reason to believe that the conditions on earth are the only conditions that allow life to thrive.

I tend to think of the chances of life happening as being somewhat similar to the lottery. The chances of you winning on a given day are near zero. Yet the chances of somebody winning sometime is 100%. Sometimes two or more win on the same night. Same with life starting. It does not have to be right every time, nor do the same numbers always win.

I tend to think of the chances of life starting on earth as zero to none. I don't buy abiogenesis at all.
 
I tend to think of the chances of life starting on earth as zero to none. I don't buy abiogenesis at all.

I don't necessarily disagree, but with billions of galaxies with billions of stars with billions of planets, the chances of life starting somewhere approaches 100%.
 
Because of the sheer volume of info, we're not able to "know" as much. But I've heard more than one kid ask, "Why do I need to actually learn anything when there's Google?"

So there's that.

The kid asked a good question, which suggests that education needs to get away from the past practice of primarily feeding kids information to emphasizing concepts such as the scientific method, how the media works and how to evaluate the reliability of a source of information.
 
I don't necessarily disagree, but with billions of galaxies with billions of stars with billions of planets, the chances of life starting somewhere approaches 100%.

Yea, No. You know, I was of the impression that hydrothermals too had been discounted, but I see that is not the case. I think I'm going to suspend judgement and go back to studying published sources again.
 
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Yea, No. You know, I was of the impression that hydrothermals too had been discounted, but I see that is not the case. I think I'm going to suspend judgement and go back to studying published sources again.

Not sure whether you are being facetious or serious. But I'll go with serious for the moment.

Much of what I learned about the existence of life on earth in grade school has since been proven wrong. Basically life must have carbon, water, oxygen or carbon dioxide as a catalyst, a food source, and the sun for energy. By extension, that excluded life on other planets. Some life on earth has been found that violates 1 or more of these parameters. The sea floor vents have thriving colonies based on sulphur, no oxygen, heat energy from the center of the earth. Likewise life thrives in very hot springs, in pure salt beds and embedded in ice.
 
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Not sure whether you are being facetious or serious. But I'll go with serious for the moment.

Much of what I learned about the existence of life on earth in grade school has since been proven wrong. Basically life must have carbon, water, oxygen or carbon dioxide as a catalyst, a food source, and the sun for energy. By extension, that excluded life on other planets. Some life on earth has been found that violates 1 or more of these parameters. The sea floor vents have thriving colonies based on sulphur, no oxygen, heat energy from the center of the earth. Likewise life thrives in very hot springs, in pure salt beds and embedded in ice.

Not facetious, no. I'm old enough to have seen origins theory go through seven or eight revisions. And abiogeneis has had some disappointments. To the point where I had begun to question whether life born of a "sterile" world was even remotely possible. There's a sticking point with the "life starting somewhere" question, too, because this is probably as good a place as any. And so I think I need to go back to reading.
 
Why is that? We need answers not more questions, and I think these "spiritual" groups have a lot to contribute to science if we were only more open minded about this.

Of course, we should not blindly follow whatever comes out but it's worth considering.

Have you ever considered that many are powered by demons? I recommend you not sell your soul to the devil.
 
Science is not closed minded. Any phenomena that can be tested, observed and repeatedly verified will be accepted as fact. That is how we discovered 'magical' phenomena like magnetism, electricity and radiation.

When I said that, I meant people who see science as the only way humanity can progress. I guess I meant those people were close minded (just as people who think religion is the only way).
 
Have you ever considered that many are powered by demons? I recommend you not sell your soul to the devil.

No, I've never considered that. So I'll ask:

What are you talking about?
 
Not facetious, no. I'm old enough to have seen origins theory go through seven or eight revisions. And abiogeneis has had some disappointments. To the point where I had begun to question whether life born of a "sterile" world was even remotely possible. There's a sticking point with the "life starting somewhere" question, too, because this is probably as good a place as any. And so I think I need to go back to reading.

My sources are usually very questionable but Life Carriers are supposedly responsible for implanting life on suitable planets (at least it's one explanation for how life started):

"LIFE does not originate spontaneously. Life is constructed according to plans formulated by the (unrevealed) Architects of Being and appears on the inhabited planets either by direct importation or as a result of the operations of the Life Carriers of the local universes. These carriers of life are among the most interesting and versatile of the diverse family of universe Sons. They are intrusted with designing and carrying creature life to the planetary spheres. And after planting this life on such new worlds, they remain there for long periods to foster its development."

Paper 36 - The Life Carriers | Urantia Book | Urantia Foundation
 
The kid asked a good question, which suggests that education needs to get away from the past practice of primarily feeding kids information to emphasizing concepts such as the scientific method, how the media works and how to evaluate the reliability of a source of information.

You left out critical thinking skills.

And there is a reason for learning: Your mind isn't like a closet that can become overstuffed; it's like an ever-expanding sponge. Learning grows the brain.
 
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