• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

Why are you against same sex marriage?

CLAX1911

Supreme knower of all
DP Veteran
Joined
Nov 12, 2012
Messages
107,822
Reaction score
27,145
Location
Houston, in the great state of Texas
Gender
Male
Political Leaning
Slightly Conservative
This was an interesting discussion I was having with people.

If you are against same-sex marriage I would like to hear your explanation as to why keep in mind if you responding you give an explanation I may ask you to rationalize. I won't call you a bigot or attack you in anyway and I expect the same reciprocated. I can't speak for other posters I would ask that they not do that but sometimes people got to do what they got to do what they do.

That being said please explain if you are against same-sex marriage why you are and be prepared to rationalize.
 
Last edited:
This was an interesting discussion I was having with people.

If you are against same-sex marriage I would like to hear your explanation as to why keep in mind if you responding you give an explanation I may ask you to rationalize. I won't call you a bigot or attack you in anyway and I expect the same reciprocated. I can't speak for other posters I would ask that they not do that but sometimes people got to do what they got to do what they do.

That being said please spring if you are against same-sex marriage why you are and be prepared to rationalize.

Nope...
 
This was an interesting discussion I was having with people.

If you are against same-sex marriage I would like to hear your explanation as to why keep in mind if you responding you give an explanation I may ask you to rationalize. I won't call you a bigot or attack you in anyway and I expect the same reciprocated. I can't speak for other posters I would ask that they not do that but sometimes people got to do what they got to do what they do. That being said please explain if you are against same-sex marriage why you are and be prepared to rationalize.

There are 2 types of marriages: 1. Religious 2. Civil With regards to civil marriages or civil unions, I have no objection. I don't, however, approve of homosexual behavior.With regards to a marriage that would include a covenant with God then I object to marriages that are homosexual or evil. When God is included in the marriage covenant, then it can only be done between a man and a woman. Because that's what God wants and I follow God's commandments. Everyone of them.
 

To begin with it is Not my business and the fact that they should have all the same rights as any other loving couple. Seems pretty obvious to me
 
There ya go, not that difficult when one uses logic and a bit of common sense.

Then why did you reply with enigmatic "nope" when the OP isn't asking you specifically when the OP is asking those who are against SSM?
 
Ah, got it.

Then why did you reply with enigmatic "nope" when the OP isn't asking you specifically when the OP is asking those who are against SSM?

Simply because it says I am not against same sex marriage which is the first part of the question. The other part I have given.
 
Why shouldn't two people who love each other get married?
 
This was an interesting discussion I was having with people.

If you are against same-sex marriage I would like to hear your explanation as to why keep in mind if you responding you give an explanation I may ask you to rationalize. I won't call you a bigot or attack you in anyway and I expect the same reciprocated. I can't speak for other posters I would ask that they not do that but sometimes people got to do what they got to do what they do.

That being said please explain if you are against same-sex marriage why you are and be prepared to rationalize.


well id be interested in reading too because depending on what is meant by "against", in all the years ive been here there has never been one rational reason posted to be against equal rights and the legality of it

now with that being said, if a person is personally against this or any other type of marriage thats fine, so be it and thats a different thing. Dont get that type of marriage and you are free to FEEL, THINK, SAY its wrong etc.
But theres still no rational reason to stop others from having equal rights.
 
There are 2 types of marriages: 1. Religious 2. Civil With regards to civil marriages or civil unions, I have no objection. I don't, however, approve of homosexual behavior. With regards to a marriage that would include a covenant with God then I object to marriages that are homosexual or evil. When God is included in the marriage covenant, then it can only be done between a man and a woman. Because that's what God wants and I follow God's commandments. Every one of them.

Do you also oppose interfaith or interracial marriages or marriages of people who aren't Christian?

Marriage is a secular civil contract between two people. Matrimony, holy or otherwise, is the religious sacrament of joining two people in a religious ceremony.
 
There are 2 types of marriages: 1. Religious 2. Civil With regards to civil marriages or civil unions, I have no objection. I don't, however, approve of homosexual behavior.With regards to a marriage that would include a covenant with God then I object to marriages that are homosexual or evil. When God is included in the marriage covenant, then it can only be done between a man and a woman. Because that's what God wants and I follow God's commandments. Everyone of them.

I can respect your belief, and I think you rationalized your position well.

Thank you
 
Do you also oppose interfaith or interracial marriages or marriages of people who aren't Christian?

Marriage is a secular civil contract between two people. Matrimony, holy or otherwise, is the religious sacrament of joining two people in a religious ceremony.

All fairness, he said there were 2 types of marriage, one civil, and one religious.

That's a position I can respect.
 
I thought we'd put this question to bed.

There are no good, non religious, reasons against same sex marriage.
 
There are 2 types of marriages: 1. Religious 2. Civil With regards to civil marriages or civil unions, I have no objection. I don't, however, approve of homosexual behavior.With regards to a marriage that would include a covenant with God then I object to marriages that are homosexual or evil. When God is included in the marriage covenant, then it can only be done between a man and a woman. Because that's what God wants and I follow God's commandments. Everyone of them.

Marriage has nothing to do with god and the church does not own the word.


If a church wants to conduct opposite sex only marriages, on its property, for religious reasons, so so be it.
 
I can respect your belief, and I think you rationalized your position well.

Thank you

I agree with Cougarbear. They say that Western civilization was founded on two ("spiritual") cities: Athens and Jerusalem. With respect to "Jerusalem", for two thousand years the Christian Church has continuously played a major role in the development of our (Western) culture. The term "marriage" still refers, by default, to a Christian institution. In a Christian marriage, a male and a female swear before God that they will always love each other, and always remain faithful to each other ("Till death do us part"), come what may. It is a sacred contract, a sacrament. In a sense, the main purpose of marriage is to provide a stable, loving foundation for the rearing of children. The so-called "Nuclear Family" comprised of a married husband and wife and their biological children has always provided the fundamental building block of society in the West. In fact, long before Christianity, the "Nuclear Family" of a Father, a Mother, and their children was the basic unit that formed the social fabric of all civilized human societies that managed to emerge over the past 6000 years

Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Christian Church does not permit the marriage of homosexual couples, because this is forbidden in Holy Scripture. So when "gay" marriage has been legalised in countries like: the UK, Australia and Ireland, it has meant that "gay" couples were permitted to enter into a Civil Law Marriage. I think the main concern I have about this is that if a homosexual couple are married in civil law, it legally entitle them to adopt and raise children. (If I have this wrong, please correct me). My concern is that adopted children should( necessarily) have a mother and a father; not two "fathers" or two "mothers". The later is unnatural and whenever the law of nature (the Natural Moral Law) is breached there are almost always harmful consequences. Already psychological research has clearly shown that boys brought up in families where there is no (adult male) father tend to acquire a range of social dysfunctions/impairments (often serious) as they mature. Otherwise, there is not a great deal of research that has been conducted into the developmental progress and life outcomes for children adopted by homosexual parents; though as a scientist my instincts tell me that if any such research is done in the future, the findings will not be positive.


Please tell me if I am miunderstanding this, but the whole idea of legalising gay marriage was basically to allow gay couples to adopt children. Do I have this right ? There was a TREMENDOUS fuss made about legalising gay marriage in Australia. The government decided to hold a referendum on the issue, and in the run-up to voting day there was more madness and hoopla than you would see for an American Presidential election.

Again, speaking as a scientist, my opinion is that homosexuality IS a bone fide psychiatric disorder, when I say this, BTW, I am not suggesting that gay persons are all lunatics or "barking mad". Homosexuality was always classified as a paraphilia (sexual psychiatric disorder) in the US, until "gay" activists brought intense political pressure to bear on the American Psychiatric Association in 1975, forcing them to delete homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder from the DSM (America's official Diagnostic reference for mental disorders). I think that this was a mistake, and as far as male homosexuality is concerned, I believe, it is a genetic mental disorder (there is some evidence to supports this) I cannot comment with regard to lesbians, however, as female sexuality is far more complex than male sexuality, and as far as I know, female homosexuality has never been the subject of any kind of substantial, scientific research investigation/s.

Finally, I think it is a mistake to imagine that a given homosexual couple in a civil marriage are "more or less" identical to a given heterosexual couple who were married in a Christian ceremony, the only difference being that the former happen to be the same (biological) sex. If we just consider male homosexuality for a moment, I would point out that male homosexuals have a wide-spread reputation for promiscuity (which is not a trait that is very compatible with marriage and childrearing), and to a lesser extent, other deviant sexual behaviours (paraphilias). Naturally, there is no hard empirical research to confirm any of these claims, merely anecdotal evidence. But this ,in itself, highlights the fact that there is a dearth of factual, scientific knowledge respecting the behaviours of gay men (and women). And given that homosexuality is not classified as a legitimate, psychiatric disorder anymore, it is unlikely, I think, that any further scientific research will be conducted into homosexual behaviours in the condition in the future.
 
1.) The term "marriage" still refers, by default, to a Christian institution.
2.) Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Christian Church does not permit the marriage of homosexual couples, because this is forbidden in Holy Scripture.
3.) I think the main concern I have about this is that if a homosexual couple are married in civil law, it legally entitle them to adopt and raise children. (If I have this wrong, please correct me). My concern is that adopted children should( necessarily) have a mother and a father; not two "fathers" or two "mothers". The later is unnatural and whenever the law of nature (the Natural Moral Law) is breached there are almost always harmful consequences.
4.) Already psychological research has clearly shown that boys brought up in families where there is no (adult male) father tend to acquire a range of social dysfunctions/impairments (often serious) as they mature. Otherwise, there is not a great deal of research that has been conducted into the developmental progress and life outcomes for children adopted by homosexual parents;
5.) though as a scientist my instincts tell me that if any such research is done in the future, the findings will not be positive.
6.)Please tell me if I am miunderstanding this, but the whole idea of legalising gay marriage was basically to allow gay couples to adopt children. Do I have this right ?
7.)Again, speaking as a scientist, my opinion is that homosexuality IS a bone fide psychiatric disorder, when I say this, BTW, I am not suggesting that gay persons are all lunatics or "barking mad". Homosexuality was always classified as a paraphilia (sexual psychiatric disorder) in the US, until "gay" activists brought intense political pressure to bear on the American Psychiatric Association in 1975, forcing them to delete homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder from the DSM (America's official Diagnostic reference for mental disorders). I think that this was a mistake, and as far as male homosexuality is concerned, I believe, it is a genetic mental disorder (there is some evidence to supports this) I cannot comment with regard to lesbians, however, as female sexuality is far more complex than male sexuality, and as far as I know, female homosexuality has never been the subject of any kind of substantial, scientific research investigation/s.
8.)Finally, I think it is a mistake to imagine that a given homosexual couple in a civil marriage are "more or less" identical to a given heterosexual couple who were married in a Christian ceremony, the only difference being that the former happen to be the same (biological) sex. If we just consider male homosexuality for a moment, I would point out that male homosexuals have a wide-spread reputation for promiscuity (which is not a trait that is very compatible with marriage and childrearing), and to a lesser extent, other deviant sexual behaviours (paraphilias). Naturally, there is no hard empirical research to confirm any of these claims, merely anecdotal evidence. But this ,in itself, highlights the fact that there is a dearth of factual, scientific knowledge respecting the behaviours of gay men (and women). And given that homosexuality is not classified as a legitimate, psychiatric disorder anymore, it is unlikely, I think, that any further scientific research will be conducted into homosexual behaviours in the condition in the future.

1.) no it factually doesnt so the rest of that paragraph is meaningless
2.) considered yourself correct because yes, that is wrong
3.) once again, yes you are wrong a person doesn't have to be married to adopt or raise children. Even if that was the case though based on reality its of no concern.
4.) actually its been shown that a loving home PERIOD is good for children and that TWO or more loving adults is solid. But also AGAIN single people can already adopt so that would make your concern meaningless twice as "gay" has nothing to do with your misplaced concern.
5.) nothing currently supports that guess in any legit fashion
6.) once again factually false
7.) Medical science, facts and history disagrees with your feelings/opinions and false claims
8.) WHAT??? lol this makes even less sense than the rest of your post . . wow as a scientist you are severely uneducated on this specific topic
 
I agree with Cougarbear. They say that Western civilization was founded on two ("spiritual") cities: Athens and Jerusalem. With respect to "Jerusalem", for two thousand years the Christian Church has continuously played a major role in the development of our (Western) culture. The term "marriage" still refers, by default, to a Christian institution. In a Christian marriage, a male and a female swear before God that they will always love each other, and always remain faithful to each other ("Till death do us part"), come what may. It is a sacred contract, a sacrament. In a sense, the main purpose of marriage is to provide a stable, loving foundation for the rearing of children. The so-called "Nuclear Family" comprised of a married husband and wife and their biological children has always provided the fundamental building block of society in the West. In fact, long before Christianity, the "Nuclear Family" of a Father, a Mother, and their children was the basic unit that formed the social fabric of all civilized human societies that managed to emerge over the past 6000 years
I'm okay with separating the concept of a religious position from a civil one. I can even respect that opinion.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but the Christian Church does not permit the marriage of homosexual couples, because this is forbidden in Holy Scripture.
Christianity is not monolithic meaning there is no the Christian church there are hundreds maybe even thousands of different Christian churches by which I mean Christian denominations. Some of them do permit same-sex couples to marry.
So when "gay" marriage has been legalised in countries like: the UK, Australia and Ireland, it has meant that "gay" couples were permitted to enter into a Civil Law Marriage. I think the main concern I have about this is that if a homosexual couple are married in civil law, it legally entitle them to adopt and raise children.(If I have this wrong, please correct me).
legally speaking in any of the states in the u.s. outside of Utah there was never a regulation on being married in order to adopt. So single people could adopt children, people who are legally single but in a partnership with someone of the same sex could have ducts children anywhere outside of Utah.

My concern is that adopted children should( necessarily) have a mother and a father; not two "fathers" or two "mothers". The later is unnatural and whenever the law of nature (the Natural Moral Law) is breached there are almost always harmful consequences.
children that are up for adoption normally have neither a mother or a father that's interested or capable of raising them. I would think one adult outside of foster care willing to take on the commitment to that child would be better than nothing.

Oh marriage would do with regard to this is allow a single adoptive parent who's in a relationship with another person for that person to also pee a paired adoptive parent that would be the only thing that would change. Sanford children that are in that situation already their lives would improve because now they have two legal guardians.
Already psychological research has clearly shown that boys brought up in families where there is no (adult male) father tend to acquire a range of social dysfunctions/impairments (often serious) as they mature.
a father not wanting to be part of their child's life is almost absolutely one hundred percent a heterosexual problem. Homosexuals adopting their spouses son or daughter as a stepchild would have no effect on that.
Otherwise, there is not a great deal of research that has been conducted into the developmental progress and life outcomes for children adopted by homosexual parents; though as a scientist my instincts tell me that if any such research is done in the future, the findings will not be positive.
as far as the children go I'm pretty sure most adoption agencies would prefer a child to be adopted by a male and female couple and I actually agree with that they should have preference because that's closer to the ideal. So if you want these kids to be cared for by your mother and father you need to go adopt children but them being cared for in foster care is far worse than a single parent or a couple of the same sex. we're not talking about taking a child away from a loving mother and father were talking about taking a child away from Foster Care or an orphanage where they have no parents.
 
Please tell me if I am miunderstanding this, but the whole idea of legalising gay marriage was basically to allow gay couples to adopt children.
to adopt children as a couple versus one of the members of the couple adopting a child. There was no law in the United States at least outside of Utah saying that you had to be a couple to adopt a child.

But now I don't think that was the point.

Do I have this right ? There was a TREMENDOUS fuss made about legalising gay marriage in Australia. The government decided to hold a referendum on the issue, and in the run-up to voting day there was more madness and hoopla than you would see for an American Presidential election.
I'm sorry I'm not familiar with Australia's laws.
Again, speaking as a scientist, my opinion is that homosexuality IS a bone fide psychiatric disorder, when I say this, BTW, I am not suggesting that gay persons are all lunatics or "barking mad". Homosexuality was always classified as a paraphilia (sexual psychiatric disorder) in the US, until "gay" activists brought intense political pressure to bear on the American Psychiatric Association in 1975, forcing them to delete homosexuality as a psychiatric disorder from the DSM (America's official Diagnostic reference for mental disorders). I think that this was a mistake, and as far as male homosexuality is concerned, I believe, it is a genetic mental disorder (there is some evidence to supports this) I cannot comment with regard to lesbians, however, as female sexuality is far more complex than male sexuality, and as far as I know, female homosexuality has never been the subject of any kind of substantial, scientific research investigation/s.
so I understand the argument that homosexuality was once considered a mental disorder according to the DSM and that it was removed. But what merited homosexuality being considered a mental disorder and placed into the DSM in the first place? and if that merits still exist how were they forced? Could they not prove that it was a mental disorder?
Finally, I think it is a mistake to imagine that a given homosexual couple in a civil marriage are "more or less" identical to a given heterosexual couple who were married in a Christian ceremony, the only difference being that the former happen to be the same (biological) sex. If we just consider male homosexuality for a moment, I would point out that male homosexuals have a wide-spread reputation for promiscuity (which is not a trait that is very compatible with marriage and childrearing), and to a lesser extent, other deviant sexual behaviours (paraphilias).
I would argue that this is also a trait within heterosexual males to the same extent as it is within homosexual males. I would further argue The binding of marriage was designed to control the heterosexual males sexuality, to put a legal or cultural consequence on sleeping around.

I would also argue that marriage effectively push the culture into monogamy, and engineered the males Behavior into staying with the family and looking after children.

To say that homosexual men are fundamentally different then heterosexual men in their proclivity to be promiscuous, and some sort of unknown trait versus cultural pressure to stay with your family and look after your kids, would be fundamentally flawed rationale

Naturally, there is no hard empirical research to confirm any of these claims, merely anecdotal evidence. But this ,in itself, highlights the fact that there is a dearth of factual, scientific knowledge respecting the behaviours of gay men (and women). And given that homosexuality is not classified as a legitimate, psychiatric disorder anymore, it is unlikely, I think, that any further scientific research will be conducted into homosexual behaviours in the condition in the future.

when I started this thread I wanted to hear your anecdotes I wanted to hear your opinions that's what I asked for so thank you for stating them. I also want to rationalize my point of view. And that's what I was doing in these responses.

As far as the classification of it being a mental disorder, a mental disorder as I know it is a behavioral pattern or thought pattern that interferes with normal life. For example someone who is OCD might not get the appropriate amount of sleep because they're doing some sort of ritual, or they're going to be late to appointments and work because they are compelled to go through a cleaning ritual or luck ritual.

A person with schizophrenia has trouble operating within the realm of society because of the distorted way they perceive the world.

if I'm not mistaken homosexuality was considered that paranoid disorder in previous dsm's.
 
So what remains to be rationalized is if you maintain that it's a paranoid disorder still, explain why.


So to give you a little catalyst framework for which to rationalize your position. Paranoia in the simplest terms is characterized by a delusion of persecution, unwarranted jealousy or exaggerated self-importance.

Thank you for your response thank you for the amount of time you put into it. I appreciate it and I wish to continue this discussion
 
Back
Top Bottom