Why are socialist Scandinavian countries the happiest in the world?

[veritas1]

Au contraire,

Sorry, not socialism.

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So you think socialism works under certain circumstances? Why always bring up Cuba when you want to scare people about socialism? How do you know that the results here in the US won't be more like Norway than Cuba?

I am rejecting the very idea what happens in Norway is socialism. It’s not.

It’s actually a conservative society in many ways the US is not.

Bringing up Cuba is all on Bernie. He’s the one who can’t stop singing Fidel’s praises.

 

[ataraxia]

I am rejecting the very idea what happens in Norway is socialism. It’s not.

It’s actually a conservative society in many ways the US is not.

Bringing up Cuba is all on Bernie. He’s the one who can’t stop singing Fidel’s praises.

So what do you make of this?

"I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn what they have accomplished for their working people."
- Bernie Sanders

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So what do you make of this?

"I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn what they have accomplished for their working people."
- Bernie Sanders

That Bernie is either incredibly ignorant or an outright liar. He is not proposing economic policy remotely like anything that exists in Norway, his whole career has been spent defending the Soviet Union (Norway’s literal existential enemy, the reason the Norwegian military is so large is because they share border with Russia) praising the Sandinistas, praising Castro, he has proposed insane corporate taxes (Norway’s corporate tax rate is much lower then America’s) nationalizing industries (which is not done in Norway except for Statoil which is not directly run by the government, the government allows it to run privately and owns the stock to the corporation) he talks about ending all fossil fuel production in America (again this would be political death to suggest in Norway)

So Norway is a state which is capitalist, drills a lot of oil, has low business taxes, an established church and a Monarchy and Bernie Sanders is buddy buddy with Fidel Castro, I doubt he could even name Solberg or King Harald.

He knows America wouldn’t go for a Venezuela or Soviet style system so he talks with all the Marxist language while pointing to countries who’s policies are explicitly against everything he proposes.

 

[Lisa]

Sorry, not socialism.

Your uninformed opinions do not redefine political philosophy. You have been indoctrinated by conservative media with a very narrow view of what socialism as a form of government means and it appears to be a totalitarian government with government-owned means of production and very few consumer goods, but that is not correct in any way. I can suggest a few books to read if you are wanting to learn the facts.

Socialism

Socialism refers to a form of government in which the people own the primary means of production. A counterpoint to the competitive nature and unequal proclivities of capitalism, socialism has existed in many forms and to widely variant degrees of strictness throughout history and around the world. From small communal societies to state-level governments that provide encompassing public services such as universal healthcare, the concept of socialism permeates governments the world over. By contrast to the less compromising and often more authoritarian nature of communism, socialism tends to be a malleable concept. Some adherents view socialism as referring to a strict policy of shared ownership and equal distribution of resources, while others believe free market capitalism can coexist with socialist forms of public administration. To wit, the Social Security system of the declaratively capitalist United States is inherently socialist in nature.
Real World Example

The Nordic model of social democracy represents perhaps the most effective real world implementation of socialist principles. The Scandinavian nations of Denmark, Finland, Iceland, Norway, and Sweden adhere to policies that combine free-market capitalism with extensive public works, including free healthcare, free education, a comprehensive welfare state, and high percentages of unionized workers. This approach essentially combines the social consciousness of socialism with the private ownership and competitive opportunity of capitalism.

20 Common Forms of Government | The Quad Magazine

I have a minor in political philosophy and I am most definitely a socialist. I support a mixed market socialist economy and I am a civil libertarian. I doubt that you have any idea of those concepts.

 

[vegas giants]

So what do you make of this?

"I think we should look to countries like Denmark, like Sweden and Norway, and learn what they have accomplished for their working people."
- Bernie Sanders

He was of course referring to their social programs which we should emulate

 

[Court Jester]

It works in scandanavia it can work in the US

Nope, too many deadbeats, baby making machines, thugs, and losers sad to say. America is not Norway, Japan, or Switzerland.

 

[vegas giants]

Nope, too many deadbeats, baby making machines, thugs, and losers sad to say. America is not Norway, Japan, or Switzerland.

Opinion noted and dismissed

 

[veritas1]

Your uninformed opinions do not redefine political philosophy. You have been indoctrinated by conservative media with a very narrow view of what socialism as a form of government means and it appears to be a totalitarian government with government-owned means of production and very few consumer goods, but that is not correct in any way. I can suggest a few books to read if you are wanting to learn the facts.

20 Common Forms of Government | The Quad Magazine

I have a minor in political philosophy and I am most definitely a socialist. I support a mixed market socialist economy and I am a civil libertarian. I doubt that you have any idea of those concepts.

Neither Norway nor any other Scandinavian country is socialist. You've simply made up a new definition to suit yourself. What you are describing is capitalism with a few socialized attachments. That is not socialism.

 

[vegas giants]

Neither Norway nor any other Scandinavian country is socialist. You've simply made up a new definition to suit yourself. What you are describing is capitalism with a few socialized attachments. That is not socialism.

We didnt make up a new definition.


Fox news did

 

[soylentgreen]

Communist nations have certain common features--socialist economy, one-party rule by Communist Party, and they identify as communist (not necessarily their official name). Some, such as China and Vietnam, have introduced more private ownership and market principles in their economy. Even Cuba now allows some private business activity.

Those are the nations we call communist and they describe previously communist nations (Soviet Union, Eastern bloc) although they all had many variations. No country was ever communist in that they met the Marxist ideal of government withering away, but they all fit into a category we can identify as communist. I think their authoritarian/totalitarian character was more of a historical and cultural feature than communist.

No, the people who identify those countries as communist do so only because their understanding of communism is no better than the cliches written on the back of a toilet door.

North korea puts to a lie the idea that one party rule is a communist ideology. Dictators can and do call themselves as they please not as any doctrine dictates.

If you are arguing that these countries are communist because they call themselves such then you would also have to agree that north korea is in fact a democratic republic because that is what they call themselves.

 

[ataraxia]

So Norway is a state which is capitalist, drills a lot of oil, has low business taxes, an established church and a Monarchy and Bernie Sanders is buddy buddy with Fidel Castro, I doubt he could even name Solberg or King Harald.

He knows America wouldn’t go for a Venezuela or Soviet style system so he talks with all the Marxist language while pointing to countries who’s policies are explicitly against everything he proposes.

So what do you think of this statement from the prime minister of Finland? Is she ignorant of the actual policies of her own country?

“ January: "I feel that the American dream can be achieved best in the Nordic countries, where every child no matter their background or the background of their families can become anything... The American dream is, at its most basic level, the idea that everyone should be given the opportunity to reach their life's goals and ambitions...Finland can provide the American dream because of its public services. We have a very good education system," she said. "We have a good healthcare and social-welfare system that allows anybody to become anything. This is probably one of the reasons why Finland gets ranked the happiest country in the world.”
-Sana’a Marin, prime minister of Finland

While she did not mention him by name, Marin's remarks to The Post suggested a tacit endorsement of Sen. Bernie Sanders of Vermont, one of the frontrunners to secure the Democratic nomination in the 2020 US presidential election.

Sanders has long advocated moving toward so-called Nordic socialism: a system with a strong welfare state, often including free healthcare and highly subsidized higher education, paid for by high levels of taxation, particularly on the wealthy.

Sanders once said at a 2008 meeting in Vermont with the Finnish ambassador to the US that Finland has "one of the best economic and social models in the world."

Finland PM Marin: Nordic social model better embodies American dream - Business Insider

 

[Court Jester]

Opinion noted and dismissed

Of course you did. Like the "not my president" type of response. You can't process the reality because the reality stings too much.

 

[ataraxia]

Nope, too many deadbeats, baby making machines, thugs, and losers sad to say. America is not Norway, Japan, or Switzerland.

Do better policies create a more functional country, or is it the other way around?

I would suggest that all of those things you list exist in this country because we have a government unwilling to create even the most basic safety nets for its citizens. People who face desperate situations do desperate things.

 

[vegas giants]

Of course you did. Like the "not my president" type of response. You can't process the reality because the reality stings too much.

You stated a opinion. Not reality. I laughed at it....and then dismissed it

 

[EMNofSeattle]

So what do you think of this statement from the prime minister of Finland? Is she ignorant of the actual policies of her own country?

“ January: "I feel that the American dream can be achieved best in the Nordic countries, where every child no matter their background or the background of their families can become anything... The American dream is, at its most basic level, the idea that everyone should be given the opportunity to reach their life's goals and ambitions...Finland can provide the American dream because of its public services. We have a very good education system," she said. "We have a good healthcare and social-welfare system that allows anybody to become anything. This is probably one of the reasons why Finland gets ranked the happiest country in the world.”
-Sana’a Marin, prime minister of Finland

Except she didn’t advocate for Bernie.

And Bernie has NEVER advocated for any Scandinavian economic policies ever. I feel like I’m talking to a wall. Bernie Sanders has NEVER made ANY policy proposal remotely like the Scandinavian countries

 

[EMNofSeattle]

Do better policies create a more functional country, or is it the other way around?

I would suggest that all of those things you list exist in this country because we have a government unwilling to create even the most basic safety nets for its citizens. People who face desperate situations do desperate things.

The other way around. People create structures.

You have the Marxist idea in your head (which shows you really want Cuban style Marxism and not Scandinavian capitalism) that structures create people. They don’t. If Norwegians went to Guatemala and Guatemalans to Norway then Norway would be the poorest country in the world and Guatemala would have exceeding wealth.

 

[vegas giants]

The other way around. People create structures.

You have the Marxist idea in your head (which shows you really want Cuban style Marxism and not Scandinavian capitalism) that structures create people. They don’t. If Norwegians went to Guatemala and Guatemalans to Norway then Norway would be the poorest country in the world and Guatemala would have exceeding wealth.

Oh looky you have an opinion. Lol

 

[ataraxia]

Except she didn’t advocate for Bernie.

And Bernie has NEVER advocated for any Scandinavian economic policies ever. I feel like I’m talking to a wall. Bernie Sanders has NEVER made ANY policy proposal remotely like the Scandinavian countries

So what is universal healthcare and education?

 

[ataraxia]

The other way around. People create structures.

You have the Marxist idea in your head (which shows you really want Cuban style Marxism and not Scandinavian capitalism) that structures create people. They don’t. If Norwegians went to Guatemala and Guatemalans to Norway then Norway would be the poorest country in the world and Guatemala would have exceeding wealth.

For most of its history Scandinavia has been the armpit of Europe, if not the world- culturally and economically. What changed?

 

[vegas giants]

So what is universal healthcare and education?

That's not socialism......unless you ask any Republican in America

 

[charliebrown]

Some good reading.

https://www.thelocal.se/20180111/does-swedens-tax-system-really-screw-the-rich

 

[EMNofSeattle]

For most of its history Scandinavia has been the armpit of Europe, if not the world- culturally and economically. What changed?

Lol!

Tell you what, do some reading and come back. This is next level historical ignorance. Don’t spout on stuff you know nothing about

 

[ataraxia]

Lol!

Tell you what, do some reading and come back. This is next level historical ignorance. Don’t spout on stuff you know nothing about

The economic changes in Scandinavia have been dramatic, but only fairly recent. Much of probably has to do with the fact that they were spared the worst of the devastation of the rest of Europe in the two world wars.

“ The present level of material wealth that has become synonymous with modern Scandinavia is unknown for a region whose energies have historically been drained by the struggle to survive intermidable winters....

“The changes have been enormous for us,” said Arne Finborud, one of Norway’s leading political commentators. “My parents were born into the poorest country in Europe; my children are being raised in one of the richest.”
Region Emerging From Role as European Backwater - Los Angeles Times

 

[EMNofSeattle]

The economic changes in Scandinavia have been dramatic, but only fairly recent. Much of probably has to do with the fact that they were spared the worst of the devastation of the rest of Europe in the two world wars.

“ The present level of material wealth that has become synonymous with modern Scandinavia is unknown for a region whose energies have historically been drained by the struggle to survive intermidable winters....

“The changes have been enormous for us,” said Arne Finborud, one of Norway’s leading political commentators. “My parents were born into the poorest country in Europe; my children are being raised in one of the richest.”
Region Emerging From Role as European Backwater - Los Angeles Times

Now you’re switching to an article talking about the modern nation of Norway. Sweden was a large and decisive power in Europe and Denmark was a major financial center.