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Why are LGBT people angered by Kevin Spacey's coming out statement?[W:159]

My point was made, you show no inclination to understand the issue of the OP, seem more concerned about uncovering some Hollywood conspiracy that I suspect is largely in your head and I strongly doubt your apparent concern. I am inclined to not add much more until that is addressed rather than foolishly keep posting and confirm ignorance like some appear compelled to do in here.


I explained about the issue of the OP. Several times. The last time was that last post to Governess.
Go a few page up and read it. #168. It's all there! I think that's the most complete where I'm coming from.

If you refuse to acknowledge them. What more can I say?


It's not about me, or you William. You're free to entertain any kind of opinion about me.
But your insistence to turn this thread into a personal match is quite.....baffling.

I don't know why you're taking this too personally.
I'm not in any way referring to you at all when I talk about victims or predators.

As you say, it's about Hollywood. Yes, it is.
Why.....are you associated with Hollywood?
Even if you are associated in any way with Hollywood, it's still not about you personally.
UNLESS, you see yourself in it, and you want to make it about you.
In that case, it can't be helped.
 
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I explained about the issue of the OP. Several times. The last time was that last post to Governess.
Go a few page up and read it. #168. It's all there! I think that's the most complete where I'm coming from.

If you refuse to acknowledge them. What more can I say?


It's not about me, or you William. You're free to entertain any kind of opinion about me.
But your insistence to turn this thread into a personal match is quite.....baffling.

I don't know why you're taking this too personally.
I'm not in any way referring to you at all when I talk about victims or predators.

As you say, it's about Hollywood. Yes, it is.
Why.....are you associated with Hollywood?
Even if you are associated in any way with Hollywood, it's still not about you personally.
UNLESS, you see yourself in it, and you want to make it about you.
In that case, it can't be helped.

It's not about me but, you'll cast some aspersions about me anyway to see what sticks? My goodness its transparent and, it's none of your business. I'm not taking it personally, I am objecting to your pathetic attempts to attack LGBT people cloaked in faux concern. Address the points I raised if you can?

Why do you think LGBT people might actually be angry with Spacey other than what I listed?
 
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It's not about me but, you'll cast some aspersions about me anyway to see what sticks? My goodness its transparent and, it's none of your business. I'm not taking it personally, I am objecting to your pathetic attempts to attack LGBT people cloaked in faux concern. Address the points I raised if you can?

Why do you think LGBT people might actually be angry with Spacey other than what I listed?

Read #168.
 
Whole thread simply confirms my take of "give me an upright Kluxer any time who'll honestly declare that the blacks need to be kept down, give me an upright anti-semite any time who'll maintain that Jews all had it coming and, most of all, give me an upright religious fundamentalist any time who'll openly state that LBGTs are disgusting, their behavior is disgusting and they should all burn in hell and, there lies the comfort, definitely will".

Rather than the cowardly prevarications presented here right from the getgo.

Such as the pitiful attempt at supposed objectivity
He's not a pedophile. He's gay. That's what he's saying.
being immediately offset by
14 is allegedly the best age to initiate a newbie into gay sex.
all in the OP.

..............underlined, when challenged, 5 posts later by
That's what I was told by gay friends. They don't think of it as pedophilia.
From there it continues with the likes of
My gay friend comes to mind - tears, sobbing and hankie, along with that hand-wringing.
and here my patience in quoting disparaging "qualification" ends.

The whole thing here has nothing to do with what the thread title (so supposedly clever) suggests in an attempt as futile as supposedly cunning to prevaricate over the real drive, it's just what the upright fundie already mentioned would in all honesty state and what the OP lacks the guts to do.

If there's any coming out of the closet to be addressed here (seeing how that was also mentioned), it's quite apparent who needs to but won't.
 
Whole thread simply confirms my take of "give me an upright Kluxer any time who'll honestly declare that the blacks need to be kept down, give me an upright anti-semite any time who'll maintain that Jews all had it coming and, most of all, give me an upright religious fundamentalist any time who'll openly state that LBGTs are disgusting, their behavior is disgusting and they should all burn in hell and, there lies the comfort, definitely will".

Rather than the cowardly prevarications presented here right from the getgo.

Such as the pitiful attempt at supposed objectivity being immediately offset by all in the OP.

..............underlined, when challenged, 5 posts later by From there it continues with the likes of and here my patience in quoting disparaging "qualification" ends.

The whole thing here has nothing to do with what the thread title (so supposedly clever) suggests in an attempt as futile as supposedly cunning to prevaricate over the real drive, it's just what the upright fundie already mentioned would in all honesty state and what the OP lacks the guts to do.

If there's any coming out of the closet to be addressed here (seeing how that was also mentioned), it's quite apparent who needs to but won't.
:roll:

Taking things out of context again?

Read #168.

------

Some people are really tunnel-visioned.....or ignorant of the real issue.
They try to muddy up an important discussion - and unwittingly protect the predators.
 
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Whole thread simply confirms my take of "give me an upright Kluxer any time who'll honestly declare that the blacks need to be kept down, give me an upright anti-semite any time who'll maintain that Jews all had it coming and, most of all, give me an upright religious fundamentalist any time who'll openly state that LBGTs are disgusting, their behavior is disgusting and they should all burn in hell and, there lies the comfort, definitely will".

Rather than the cowardly prevarications presented here right from the getgo.

Such as the pitiful attempt at supposed objectivity being immediately offset by all in the OP.

..............underlined, when challenged, 5 posts later by From there it continues with the likes of and here my patience in quoting disparaging "qualification" ends.

The whole thing here has nothing to do with what the thread title (so supposedly clever) suggests in an attempt as futile as supposedly cunning to prevaricate over the real drive, it's just what the upright fundie already mentioned would in all honesty state and what the OP lacks the guts to do.

If there's any coming out of the closet to be addressed here (seeing how that was also mentioned), it's quite apparent who needs to but won't.
Hallelujah to that.
 
:roll:

Taking things out of context again?

Read #168.
Your belief that reading your posts repeatedly, to the point that by the time the eyes fall out of one's head they'll miraculously have gained in pertinence and honesty, is a delusion.

Some people are really tunnel-visioned.....or ignorant of the real issue.
Thank you for making my point.
They try to muddy up an important discussion - and unwittingly protect the predators.
and thanks for that as well.

Thanks in as much as confirming as being possessed of the dishonesty I addressed. With the above accusation constituting nothing but a blatant lie that in itself comes as no surprise either.
 
BS. Not to change the topic into a religious discussion, but I am what many may call a religious fundamentalist. It ticks me off to no end how quickly this broad brush comes out when convenient.
Our Lord and Savior loves all of us and died for sinners. We are to love all.
So please don't confuse selfish fanatics with Christians
Just to avoid any misunderstanding, if you self-describe as a religious fundamentalist, you don't fit the category (as demonstrated on here) that I was referring to.

I did not and do not have you or anyone like you in mind and am most unlikely to. Rather I'll think of my friends when referring to Christians. They'd be nothing of the sort (friends) if they matched the description I chose to make.

Irrespective of which they'd still have my (grudging) respect for their honesty, were they to hold any such views as outlined, but openly expressed them.

That you don't share into any of it has already been aptly demonstrated and thus requires no further mention.
 
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Btw, just heard from the news that both Weinstein and Spacey went for treatment.
Guess what: SEX ADDICTION.
:roll:

It's the standard PR damage control.
"Ooooops you caught me. Okay....I admit I have sex addiction. I'm going to go for treatment now."
 
Btw, just heard from the news that both Weinstein and Spacey went for treatment.
Guess what: SEX ADDICTION.
:roll:

It's the standard PR damage control.
"Ooooops you caught me. Okay....I admit I have sex addiction. I'm going to go for treatment now."
So what?

You prefer that they wouldn't?
 
Big mistake by making unwanted hits on another dude.
Another mistake is coming out while your acting career is going strong.
Not going to address the idea of being gay and pedophile.
(walks away)
 
I'm angered and saddened by the Spacey situation. I'm angry that despite having lived relatively openly, if not publicly, as a gay man for so many years (I met him a couple of times while he was AD of the Old Vic in London. He was NOT in the closet) he chose to make his first public declaration as a result of being accused of sexual assault against a minor. He's not a stupid man, he must have known the fallacious connections some might make of that. Why he thought that it might help his defence is anyone's guess.

Man! :2razz: I almost want to ask you some questions about him and your whole experience at that Old Vic, rather than challenge you on some points. But I feel compelled to challenge you anyways on one or more points you made.

It makes me equally angry when he made the 'seeking treatment' statement too.

He could be alcoholic. Honestly (yes, honestly, not for pretend), some of the incidents described with him and alcohol, particularly some report that he hired or tasked an assistant with watching him when he's out drinking, sounded to me like he has a drinking problem. That he is alcoholic.

Big changes (not minor) in a person's behaviors and/or personality can be an indication they are alcoholic. I say indication, I did not say it is proof or certainty.

Is he trying to claim that he's sick? Is he now drawing parallels between LGBT and mental illness?

This is the point I wanted to challenge. You criticized Spacey for his wording (in relation to the teenage boy and Spacey's homosexuality) but you made a strategic choice of words yourself. You dropped the Q from LGBTQ and just wrote LGBT. Why? Because you know "Q" (Queer) encompasses a broad range of things like cross dressers, non-binary people, and until they get their own letter "F" the furries too?



The man is innocent until proven guilty, but in my mind he IS guilty of promoting a false narrative about the connections between LGBT, paedophilia (or more correctly, hebephilia), and mental illness. That's not a crime but in my book it absolutely is the action of a scumbag.

Attraction to a teenager is not pedophilia. Whether the person is heterosexual, homosexual, or bisexual. I don't care how many times some hysterical American (or Brit or whoever) keeps reciting it is pedophilia. If some adult American critical of Spacey thinks a 14 year-old boy looks like a 7 year-old boy then something is psychologically and emotionally wrong with that American. Maybe they are a pedophile.

When you get to the young American girls of today it is even more problematic. Even medical science indicates these young girls are now physically (not emotionally) maturing faster.

I once visited an old friend, and I was briefly speaking with her daughter. The daughter told me she was graduating. And I asked her in all seriousness and curiosity, "Oh, so are you going to college?"

She looked at me with a pause to see if I was serious? And she must have realized I was.

Then she replied, "I'm going into high school."

My eyes almost bugged out my head. She was already "built" like a 20 year-old woman. :shock:

She must have been as tall or taller than me too.

Anyways... a 14 year-old is not built the same as a 7 year-old.

There is no false narrative about a correlation between homosexual men and teenage boys. Just as there is no false narrative about a correlation between heterosexual men and teenage girls.

Lie and hate it all you want... but there is a greater correlation between homosexual men and teenage boys than there is between heterosexual men and teenage boys.

Just as there is sure to be a greater correlation between heterosexual men and teenage girls than there is between homosexual men and teenage girls.

There is a greater correlation with HIV between homosexual males and IV drug users than there is with lesbians and heterosexual males.
 
Man! :2razz: I almost want to ask you some questions about him and your whole experience at that Old Vic, rather than challenge you on some points. But I feel compelled to challenge you anyways on one or more points you made.
My experience wasn't at the The Old Vic. He was working there. I met him in a purely social context, introduced by mutual friends in a couple of media clubs in central London. At the time I was an executive in the UK TV industry.



He could be alcoholic. Honestly (yes, honestly, not for pretend), some of the incidents described with him and alcohol, particularly some report that he hired or tasked an assistant with watching him when he's out drinking, sounded to me like he has a drinking problem. That he is alcoholic.

Big changes (not minor) in a person's behaviors and/or personality can be an indication they are alcoholic. I say indication, I did not say it is proof or certainty.
That could be true, and that could be the kind of treatment he was referring to, but if that were the case he really should have made that clear.

If it was the case that he has been dealing with alcoholism, two thought occur: 1) he's obviously been 'dealing' with it for a long time and pursuing a busy and hugely high-profile professional life the whole time. Why mention it now? Is he saying that that is some explanation for why he may have been unable to control his sexual urges? I don't see the relevance of talking about his addictions otherwise.

And 2) Is he claiming that such addiction may have been instrumental to his behaviour in multiple incidents over a 30-year period?

Of course, this is all hypothetical. He needs to clarify what kind of 'treatment' he is planning to undergo, and explain in what way that might be relevant in explaining or contradicting the numerous allegations of unacceptable behaviour with which he's being confronted.



This is the point I wanted to challenge. You criticized Spacey for his wording (in relation to the teenage boy and Spacey's homosexuality) but you made a strategic choice of words yourself. You dropped the Q from LGBTQ and just wrote LGBT. Why? Because you know "Q" (Queer) encompasses a broad range of things like cross dressers, non-binary people, and until they get their own letter "F" the furries too?
No, there was not ulterior motive for not using the Q. I'm very old school. When I was campaigning, marching, demonstrating and generally making a nuisance of myself in order to further the cause there was no BTQ in the label. We had organisations such as Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners, Labour Campaign for Gay Rights. Now that I'm a world away from direct involvement in LGBTQI (you forgot the I, btw) I'm not really up-to-date with the correct terminology. Apologies for that.

BTW, what are 'furries'? I shall be Googling that immediately. I'm pretty sure they weren't around in the Eighties.

There is no false narrative about a correlation between homosexual men and teenage boys. Just as there is no false narrative about a correlation between heterosexual men and teenage girls.

The false narrative is that gay men are more likely to be attracted to and engage in attempted sexual liaisons with teenage boys than heterosexual men are likely to do with teenage girls. The false narrative is that being homosexual makes one more likely to be a paedophile/hebephile/ephebephile than if one were heterosexual. We hear those false narratives the whole time.
 
Probably because being gay does not equate to being a pedophile.



Well, technically you are correct, since pedophilia (at least as defined) is:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pedophilia#cite_note-DSM_5-1

So he is not technically a pedophile, and it is also true that many people are naturally attracted to people who are in the age range of 14 to 17, the natural period in human development when members of our species are physically "adult" and capable of successful breeding. However, social mores have changed over the last 120 years and this is no longer socially acceptable...in most Western Cultures.

Thus, he is perceived as a pedophile, and his acts reflect negatively on the rest of LGBT society...at least in the USA.

I will point out one important difference between Mr. Spacey and most other public figures accused of sexual misconduct.

He did not deny it. :no:

He states he may have done it, but he does not remember because he is alcoholic and drinks.

In a way this is a mea culpa; unfortunately for him this is no longer a social atmosphere where such honesty is considered a positive.

It's called hebephhilia. Hebephilia is the sexual preference for early adolescent children (those roughly ages 11 to 14)
 
My experience wasn't at the The Old Vic. He was working there. I met him in a purely social context, introduced by mutual friends in a couple of media clubs in central London. At the time I was an executive in the UK TV industry.

When you met him did you like him in terms of his personality? Or did he seem very arrogant to you as some reports are now claiming?

Also, was being "cruel" to new people in the TV industry--or in the case of theaters like Old Vic the acting profession--a normal and common place thing? Like... was it part of the culture and a sort of expected thing toward earning your stripes in the industry?

I ask because some reports claim Spacey was cruel to people or new people in theater business. But I'm wondering if that is the way Spacey was treated too when he was a younger actor. You know... like Chef Gordon Ramsey came up in that old school culture of kitchens and chefs that was verbally abusive towards the novices.


No, there was not ulterior motive for not using the Q. I'm very old school. When I was campaigning, marching, demonstrating and generally making a nuisance of myself in order to further the cause there was no BTQ in the label. We had organisations such as Lesbians and Gays Support the Miners, Labour Campaign for Gay Rights. Now that I'm a world away from direct involvement in LGBTQI (you forgot the I, btw) I'm not really up-to-date with the correct terminology. Apologies for that.

I didn't know there was an "I." :lol:


BTW, what are 'furries'? I shall be Googling that immediately. I'm pretty sure they weren't around in the Eighties.

Oh, the furries are kind of subculture, but they draw a lot of strong emotions out of people. I find them weird but in a good way. More something I get a slight bit of humor out of. I find them more a curiosity than any thing. For some reason some people hate them. Just like some furries have the opposite string emotion of love towards furries.

Like this young dude. I'm too old to completely "get" why this guy has a video game going the whole time talking. I guess its a younger person thing. But then I don't get the furries either.



Warning For Language in Videos:





 
I was certainly well into experimenting with sex at that age.

I lost my virginity with a girl who was two weeks away from being 15 when I was 16. She wasn't a virgin.
 
When you met him did you like him in terms of his personality? Or did he seem very arrogant to you as some reports are now claiming?
It was in a very relaxed, social setting and no, I didn't find him at all arrogant, just very slightly reserved. That's unsurprising since the rest of the company was pretty extrovert.

Also, was being "cruel" to new people in the TV industry--or in the case of theaters like Old Vic the acting profession--a normal and common place thing? Like... was it part of the culture and a sort of expected thing toward earning your stripes in the industry?
I can't speak for the theatre industry, or indeed much of the media. In the sector I worked in cruelty towards newcomers really didn't play any part. I worked for a number of companies and some were better than others to work for. What I can say is that working at some places felt quite cut-throat and really political. At the place I stayed longest, and where I advanced most, it was quite the opposite, very collegial, very supportive and with a laid-back atmos.

I ask because some reports claim Spacey was cruel to people or new people in theater business. But I'm wondering if that is the way Spacey was treated too when he was a younger actor. You know... like Chef Gordon Ramsey came up in that old school culture of kitchens and chefs that was verbally abusive towards the novices.
Theatre and cooking are two very different industries. I now work in the restaurant business and we take the direct opposite of the Ramsey approach.



I didn't know there was an "I." :lol:
Intersex.




Oh, the furries are kind of subculture, but they draw a lot of strong emotions out of people. I find them weird but in a good way. More something I get a slight bit of humor out of. I find them more a curiosity than any thing. For some reason some people hate them. Just like some furries have the opposite string emotion of love towards furries.

Like this young dude. I'm too old to completely "get" why this guy has a video game going the whole time talking. I guess its a younger person thing. But then I don't get the furries either.



Warning For Language in Videos:





Yeah, I looked them up. Made me feel very old and very conventional.
 
It was in a very relaxed, social setting and no, I didn't find him at all arrogant, just very slightly reserved. That's unsurprising since the rest of the company was pretty extrovert.

I can't speak for the theatre industry, or indeed much of the media. In the sector I worked in cruelty towards newcomers really didn't play any part. I worked for a number of companies and some were better than others to work for. What I can say is that working at some places felt quite cut-throat and really political. At the place I stayed longest, and where I advanced most, it was quite the opposite, very collegial, very supportive and with a laid-back atmos.

Thanks for answering my questions on that.

Theatre and cooking are two very different industries. I now work in the restaurant business and we take the direct opposite of the Ramsey approach.

:lol: You've gone soft. You're never going to get a Michelin Star that way.

I've worked in restaurants. "Family" styled or marketed type restaurants, not your more high end restaurants. But I know they can be high pressure--at least when the tickets flood in. And what I disliked about that industry was that your off days were never really your off days. You would constantly be called in because either some large group flooded into the restaurant during slow hours, or someone didn't come in for work.



Yeah, I looked them up. Made me feel very old and very conventional.

I've never met one in life (not that I know of). I found out about them when I used to go on Second Life. There are furries as avatars on there too. And a lot of people hate them. One of my good friends who I got involved in Second Life hated them too. :lol: It was almost comical listening to him cuss up a storm about them.

Anyways... I only listened up to roughly the 10:40 mark of this video. I knew from Second Life they were often highly sexualized, however, until listening to this guy that called into Stefan and is involved in this furries thing, I was not aware some of them were often into sex with real animals. Others are Nazi furries and still other are ANTIFA furries.

If you so desire to listen to the first 10 minutes of the video:



Warning: Content In Video Can Be Considered Disturbing Subject Matter:



Stefan Molyneux

Published on Oct 16, 2017


Question: “For the last six years I have been a part of something called the "Furry Fandom". Despite knowing many of its flaws, failures and oddities I find myself increasingly drawn into this strange world. What is the best way to participate in this fandom without having it take over my life?"
 
You've gone soft. You're never going to get a Michelin Star that way.
Absolutely wouldn't want one. That wouldn't fit into our style of dining at all.

I've worked in restaurants. "Family" styled or marketed type restaurants, not your more high end restaurants. But I know they can be high pressure--at least when the tickets flood in. And what I disliked about that industry was that your off days were never really your off days. You would constantly be called in because either some large group flooded into the restaurant during slow hours, or someone didn't come in for work.
It can be high pressure, but a bit of stress sharpens the sinews.


If you so desire to listen to the first 10 minutes of the video:
Warning: Content In Video Can Be Considered Disturbing Subject Matter:

I'm pretty sure that has nothing to do with the issues and daily realities of life for LGBTQI people. It seems a little bit demeaning to draw comparisons.
 
Doesn't matter, fundies hate gays and will find any excuse to smear or associate them with anything that might go against the community.

Basically, that is what is going on here.
So the problem is "fundies", not adults hitting on minors. Got it.
 
When Rapp made accusations that Spacey made unwanted sexual advances at him when he was 14, Spacey issued an apology.....and also gave an official coming out statement that he is gay. Apparently there was a backlash from the gay community.


Why are people angry about Kevin Spacey coming out? - BBC News

I don't think it was deflecting at all! I think, Spacey was trying to set the record straight (no pun intended).
He's not a pedophile. He's gay. That's what he's saying.

Who would want to be painted as a pedophile?


Anyway....he most likely knew what's about to happen. The gig is up.


Kevin Spacey: More allegations of sexual harassment surface - BBC News


No matter how you slice and dice it.....the allegations against him couldn't be for pedophilia.
Furthermore.... 14 is a "magic" number among gays too.
I know. I've had gay friends in university.
14 is allegedly the best age to initiate a newbie into gay sex.

I am a gay man, prefer adults, Spacey seems to prefer them young, that makes him a peodophile. Big difference !
 
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