Why Americans don't do anything about mass shootings[W:465]

[vegas giants]

You're clamoring day in and day out, but all you clamor for is for us to "be more like other developed countries". Well we ARE. With the exception of actually allowing our citizens to own guns, he have those "common sense" laws.

We also make it VERY easy for criminals to own guns

 

[Bullseye]

You ignore the numbers. If gun control worked, there would be far fewer mass shootings today than in the era of no gun control. If you leave the underlying problem alone, banning all guns, you probably wouldn't have mass shootings, you'd have mass killings. A gun is nothing more than a tool. A tool that can be used like a gas can and a match, a pipe bomb, home brewed chemicals. all easily done. Leave the motivation behind, to stay and rot, soon we have an epidemic of some type of other mass killings.

Also, our gun violence is declining while the number of guns out there is increasing.

 

[Bullseye]

We also make it VERY easy for criminals to own guns

And how do you propose stopping that?

 

[vegas giants]

Also, our gun violence is declining while the number of guns out there is increasing.

And yet we are MANY times higher than any other developed nation

 

[vegas giants]

And how do you propose stopping that?

With effective gun control that works in every other developed nation

How do YOU propose stopping that?

 

[Bullseye]

And yet we are MANY times higher than any other developed nation

Yaaawwwwnnnn. Been through that before. Same answer; Nothing they do different, other than prohibiting private ownership of guns, would make a bit of difference.

 

[vegas giants]

Yaaawwwwnnnn. Been through that before. Same answer.

Our children being murdered in math class must be very boring for you

 

[Bullseye]

Our children being murdered in math class must be very boring for you

LOL, and now you have to resort to using kids as weapons? Pretty pathetic.

 

[vegas giants]

LOL, and now you have to resort to using kids as weapons? Pretty pathetic.

They are the targets....not the weapons. I want to fix the problem.....you have no plan at all

 

[Thoreau72]

Well, you might want to take a look at what it is in American society that makes some people think that it is OK to kill people just because they can't get laid, or because someone didn't want to watch the same TV show as they did, or because their toast was burned, or because another driver took too long pulling away from a stop sign, or simply because they wanted to become famous as "America's Biggest Mass Murderer".

On the other hand, there is one hell of a lot more money to be made out of the "MORE Guns/FEWER Guns" debate, so guess which way I expect the decision to go.

I think I understand what you're trying to say, but so far you have not established that anybody has killed others because they could not get laid. Yes, I get the road rage thing, if that's your point, but it's much easier to say that sometimes, people just go crazy. I remember in the old days when the term "going postal" was derived from the shootings in Post Offices, but not getting laid?

 

[Gimmesometruth]

yaaaawwwwnnnn. got any more vapid clichés on your list?

Says the poster bringing up Redcoats and Indians in a debate about gun homicide prevention.

 

[Bullseye]

Says the poster bringing up Redcoats and Indians in a debate about gun homicide prevention.

Or for those whose IQ is higher than their shoe size - the poster pointing out that private gun ownership is a long standing nation habit that is protected by the constitution.

 

[vegas giants]

Or for those whose IQ is higher than their shoe size - the poster pointing out that private gun ownership is a long standing nation habit that is protected by the constitution.

So was slavery. Even scotus upheld slavery

 

[Gimmesometruth]

Or for those whose IQ is higher than their shoe size - the poster pointing out that private gun ownership is a long standing nation habit that is protected by the constitution.

which has zero to do with the points I have argued. Further, slavery was "a nation (sic) habit", but that has no real bearing on what the majority want today.

 

[Helix]

Moderator's Warning:

Cut out the personal comments and discuss the topic, or this thread will have fewer participants. Posts made before this warning may still be subject to moderation.

 

[Perotista]

We just make it incredibly easy

We do, but is the cause, the reason due to a mind set change in society or to a gun? Guns have been around since the Chinese invented black powder. Perhaps killing is human nature, most can suppress that urge, a few can't.

 

[vegas giants]

We do, but is the cause, the reason due to a mind set change in society or to a gun? Guns have been around since the Chinese invented black powder. Perhaps killing is human nature, most can suppress that urge, a few can't.

I hear what you are saying and do admire the intention to get to the real root of the problem. But we don't have time for theories. Our kids are dying. We have to do what works in every other developed country. I joke about that it must be a big coincidence but come on lets look at what works. We can do it all within our constitution. If it doesn't work at least we tried. We have to act.....and the time is now.

 

[Perotista]

Except that every country with effective gun control does not have that problem to a large extent. So theres that

We're not every country. Ours if you think about was born of the gun and has remained one with the gun. Except now it is ICBM's. I don't have the answer, but I do think we need to be looking much deeper than just guns. Pretty much all the shooters had a mental problem of one kind or another.

Perhaps it's the movement from a rural to a urban type country. Maybe its the rat race and people having to live on top of one another where tempers flare when one get rubbed the wrong way. I don't know.

 

[vegas giants]

We're not every country. Ours if you think about was born of the gun and has remained one with the gun. Except now it is ICBM's. I don't have the answer, but I do think we need to be looking much deeper than just guns. Pretty much all the shooters had a mental problem of one kind or another.

Perhaps it's the movement from a rural to a urban type country. Maybe its the rat race and people having to live on top of one another where tempers flare when one get rubbed the wrong way. I don't know.

I am fine with looking at more than one solution. In fact that is the only way to really solve this problem. But to suggest that gun control can NOT be part of that solution I think is just ignoring the obvious.

 

[veritas1]

You have no need to do anything....because your argument has been soundly defeated already. LOL

Really? I've already dissected, debunked and disposed of your vapid cliches yet you continue to spout them. You need new material.

See, now here's where you come back and say that it works in other parts of the world.:lamo

 

[vegas giants]

Really? I've already dissected, debunked and disposed of your vapid cliches yet you continue to spout them. You need new material.

See, now here's where you come back and say that it works in other parts of the word.:lamo

Thank you for your opinion

 

[Perotista]

I am fine with looking at more than one solution. In fact that is the only way to really solve this problem. But to suggest that gun control can NOT be part of that solution I think is just ignoring the obvious.

That I didn't suggest. I said, perhaps to you or to someone else that gun control could be part of the solution. But we shouldn't just rely on that alone. We should be looking at every mass shooter in the last 20-30 years, at every school shooting and see what these killers have in common. Try to figure out what motivated them to commit mass murder.

I think if we don't, you can take one tool away, but if that motivation remains, that urge is still there, these mass murders will find another tool. Find another way. Perhaps less deadly, maybe more. Not counting Santa Fa, here's a list of school shootings that falls into the mass killing range. For some reason four or more people have to die to make the list.

List of school shootings

2018, 14 February - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 dead)
2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 dead)
2015, 1 October - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 dead)
2014, October 24- Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 dead)
2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 dead)
2012, December 14- Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
2012, 2 April - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
2007, 6 April - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
2005, 21 March - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
1999, 20 April - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
1991, 1 November - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
1976, 12 July - Fulerton, California - (7 deaths)
1970, 4 May - Kent State shootings (4 deaths)
1966, 12 November - Mesa, Arizona - (5 deaths)
1966, 1 August - University of Texas tower shooting - (17 deaths)
1940, May 6 - Pasadena - (5 deaths)
1893, December 13 - Charleston - (6 deaths)
1893, March 26 - Plain Dealing high school - (4 deaths)
1764, July 26 - Enoch Brown (10 deaths)

12 from 1764 to 2000, 11 from 2000 to today. Make the change over to 1990 to today, that 15, over half. What causes these kids to walk into a school and begin shooting? I don't understand it, can't fathom it.

 

[vegas giants]

That I didn't suggest. I said, perhaps to you or to someone else that gun control could be part of the solution. But we shouldn't just rely on that alone. We should be looking at every mass shooter in the last 20-30 years, at every school shooting and see what these killers have in common. Try to figure out what motivated them to commit mass murder.

I think if we don't, you can take one tool away, but if that motivation remains, that urge is still there, these mass murders will find another tool. Find another way. Perhaps less deadly, maybe more. Not counting Santa Fa, here's a list of school shootings that falls into the mass killing range. For some reason four or more people have to die to make the list.

List of school shootings

2018, 14 February - Marjory Stoneman Douglas High school shootings - (17 dead)
2017, November 14 - Rancho Tehama Reserve shootings - (6 dead)
2015, 1 October - Umpqua Community College shooting - (10 dead)
2014, October 24- Marysville Pilchuck High School shooting - (5 dead)
2013, June 7 - 2013 Santa Monica shooting - (6 dead)
2012, December 14- Sandy Hook Elementary School shootings - (28 deaths)
2012, 2 April - Oikos University shooting - (7 deaths)
2008, February 14 - Northern Illinois University shooting - (6 deaths)
2007, 6 April - Virginia Tech massacre - (33 deaths)
2006, October 2 - West Nickel Mines School shooting - (6 deaths)
2005, 21 March - Red Lake shootings - (10 deaths)
1999, 20 April - Columbine High School massacre - (15 deaths)
1998, May 21 - Thurston High School shooting - (4 deaths)
1998, March 24 - Mitchell Johnson and Andrew Golden - (5 deaths)
1991, 1 November - University of Iowa shooting - (6 deaths)
1976, 12 July - Fulerton, California - (7 deaths)
1970, 4 May - Kent State shootings (4 deaths)
1966, 12 November - Mesa, Arizona - (5 deaths)
1966, 1 August - University of Texas tower shooting - (17 deaths)
1940, May 6 - Pasadena - (5 deaths)
1893, December 13 - Charleston - (6 deaths)
1893, March 26 - Plain Dealing high school - (4 deaths)
1764, July 26 - Enoch Brown (10 deaths)

12 from 1764 to 2000, 11 from 2000 to today. Make the change over to 1990 to today, that 15, over half. What causes these kids to walk into a school and begin shooting? I don't understand it, can't fathom it.

We are in agreement. I would love to hear any details for your plan outside of gun control. I am open to anything that could help. The devil is always in the details. LOL

 

[Perotista]

We are in agreement. I would love to hear any details for your plan outside of gun control. I am open to anything that could help. The devil is always in the details. LOL

That it is. Right now the devil is having its way. I grew up when there weren't any mass or school shootings. There was exactly one mass shooting in the entire decade of the 1950's. No school shootings at all. Something has changed. It has to be more than access to guns and access to guns has always been there. I'm an old country boy who went to an old country school. The teachers would have rifles and shotguns in their pickups parked in the school parking lot left unlocked. None of us kids back then would ever dream of bothering them. My grandpa kept his rifles and shotguns on a rack over the fireplace with shells and cartridges on the mantle. My dad kept his guns in the hall closet with ammo on the shelf. Again, none of kids wouldn't even think of bothering them.

Can you imagine today pickups parked in any schools parking lot with rifles and shotguns in a rack in the back window or having guns in a rack over the fireplace. Very common back then. At least in my neck of the woods. When I turned 13 my dad gave me my own .410. Great for rabbit and squirrel hunting. Not so for deer. Different time, different era, different mindsets.

Perhaps that's why, I see what is going on, knowing full well nothing like that would ever happen when I was a kid. Has parents gave up parenting? Perhaps moving what was right and what was wrong into a gray area where nothing is right and nothing wrong? I don't know. Times are a changing, that's for sure.

 

[Crosscheck]

That it is. Right now the devil is having its way. I grew up when there weren't any mass or school shootings. There was exactly one mass shooting in the entire decade of the 1950's. No school shootings at all. Something has changed. It has to be more than access to guns and access to guns has always been there. I'm an old country boy who went to an old country school. The teachers would have rifles and shotguns in their pickups parked in the school parking lot left unlocked. None of us kids back then would ever dream of bothering them. My grandpa kept his rifles and shotguns on a rack over the fireplace with shells and cartridges on the mantle. My dad kept his guns in the hall closet with ammo on the shelf. Again, none of kids wouldn't even think of bothering them.

Can you imagine today pickups parked in any schools parking lot with rifles and shotguns in a rack in the back window or having guns in a rack over the fireplace. Very common back then. At least in my neck of the woods. When I turned 13 my dad gave me my own .410. Great for rabbit and squirrel hunting. Not so for deer. Different time, different era, different mindsets.

Perhaps that's why, I see what is going on, knowing full well nothing like that would ever happen when I was a kid. Has parents gave up parenting? Perhaps moving what was right and what was wrong into a gray area where nothing is right and nothing wrong? I don't know. Times are a changing, that's for sure.

I grew up on a cotton farm and we had a couple rifles and shotgun in a main closet. I was allowed to take them out anytime I wanted to and go around the farm with them.


With that said, I can never remember thinking having that rifle would protect me against any home invaders. Of course that sort of thing was extremely rare out there.
There are no picture of me or my friends trying to look like badasses with the guns as people do nowdays.


Everything is different now. There is a huge amount of fear everywhere so many want to display their weapons and I guess that is a natural reaction.

Just don't know how this is all going to work out.