Why a god who notices humanity can’t exist

[Logicman]

What you're postulating is a god who enjoys watching human activity but has nothing invested in any possible outcome of that activity. Or, like one proverb goes, "God likes stories."

Even if that's true, it doesn't contradict my thesis that God, if it exists, doesn't micromanage or care about humans.

The cross of Calvary blows your conclusion completely out of the water. God does care.



"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

 

[ludin]

How can you be sure it was God and not random good luck?

science says the random luck is not scientific and pretty much scientifically impossible.

 

[nota bene]

Perhaps one mistake we are making is looking at God within the confines of human intellect and emotion.

This is what Alexander Pope argued in his "Essay on Man" (Epistle 1).

 

[DifferentDrummr]

science says the random luck is not scientific and pretty much scientifically impossible.

I don't know where you got that idea. Randomness exists all over nature, there's plenty of scientific proof of it.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

The cross of Calvary blows your conclusion completely out of the water. God does care.

View attachment 67197875

"For God so loved the world that he gave his only begotten Son, that whosoever believeth in him shall not perish, but have everlasting life." - John 3:16

Still busy trying to live up to the opposite of your name, I see. The existence of a particular religion's symbol has absolutely zero relationship to anything I said.

 

[Desperado]

God cares..
Jesus said-"And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matt 10:30)

 

[DifferentDrummr]

God cares..
Jesus said-"And even the very hairs of your head are all numbered" (Matt 10:30)

Not quite. One person may be more valuable than two sparrows (as that passage reads), but the sermon never answered the question "valuable to whom?"

 

[RAMOSS]

science says the random luck is not scientific and pretty much scientifically impossible.

Really?? where does it say that?

 

[Logicman]

Still busy trying to live up to the opposite of your name, I see. The existence of a particular religion's symbol has absolutely zero relationship to anything I said.

Nonsense. You might want to study the Bible sometime instead of gushing over Lady Gaga.

 

[Logicman]

That's my point: if there's a god, it obviously doesn't give a flying fudge what humans do.

That's absolute, utter hogwash!

Besides God's sacrifice for sins at Calvary to redeem people from their sins, there's also the Parable of the Lost (Prodigal) Son that shows how God welcomes back a wayward son.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 15:11-32;&version=NIV

Then, there's Jeremiah 29:11, which also blows your claims out of the water: "For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope."

"And this same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 4:19

Have you ever read the Bible?

If so, why did you miss the scriptures above?

 

[ludin]

Really?? where does it say that?

been posted thousands of times.

Roger Pemrose calculated the entropy levels needed for the big bang. one of the leading premier mathmaticians in the world and highly regarded friend of Steven hawking.

anything in science has a scientific possibility of 10^45. anything smaller than that is deemed scientifically impossible.

Pemrose calculated that the entropy levels of the big bang was some where realm of 1 to 10^145.
the number is so huge that there is not a number to even describe it.

hawking himself concluded that if the rate of expansion of the big bang 1 second after it exploded would have been smaller than
1 part in 100 thousand million millions that the universe would have collapsed on itself. this was recently supported by higgs bosen.

all of these calculations are well beyond the 10^45 chance of something scientifically being possible.

 

[ludin]

Not quite. One person may be more valuable than two sparrows (as that passage reads), but the sermon never answered the question "valuable to whom?"

your distortion of the verse is astounding.

26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[g] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

 

[RAMOSS]

been posted thousands of times.

Roger Pemrose calculated the entropy levels needed for the big bang. one of the leading premier mathmaticians in the world and highly regarded friend of Steven hawking.

anything in science has a scientific possibility of 10^45. anything smaller than that is deemed scientifically impossible.

Pemrose calculated that the entropy levels of the big bang was some where realm of 1 to 10^145.
the number is so huge that there is not a number to even describe it.

hawking himself concluded that if the rate of expansion of the big bang 1 second after it exploded would have been smaller than
1 part in 100 thousand million millions that the universe would have collapsed on itself. this was recently supported by higgs bosen.

all of these calculations are well beyond the 10^45 chance of something scientifically being possible.

I bet you can't point to the point in his papers that say that. How come people say 'it's been posted ', but never can show the information HERE.

You are doing what is known as the 'sharpshooters fallacy' also...

I suggest you read "The Fallacy of Fine-Tuning: Why the Universe Is Not Designed for Us" by victor Stenger

 

[DifferentDrummr]

That's absolute, utter hogwash!

Besides God's sacrifice for sins at Calvary to redeem people from their sins, there's also the Parable of the Lost (Prodigal) Son that shows how God welcomes back a wayward son.

https://www.biblegateway.com/passage/?search=Luke 15:11-32;&version=NIV

Then, there's Jeremiah 29:11, which also blows your claims out of the water: "For I know the plans I have for you,” says the Lord. “They are plans for good and not for disaster, to give you a future and a hope."

"And this same God who takes care of me will supply all your needs from his glorious riches, which have been given to us in Christ Jesus." - Philippians 4:19

Have you ever read the Bible?

If so, why did you miss the scriptures above?

I'm amazed how obvious you make it that you haven't read a word I've posted.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

your distortion of the verse is astounding.

26 Look at the birds of the air: they neither sow nor reap nor gather into barns, and yet your heavenly Father feeds them. Are you not of more value than they? 27 And which of you by being anxious can add a single hour to his span of life?[g] 28 And why are you anxious about clothing? Consider the lilies of the field, how they grow: they neither toil nor spin, 29 yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. 30 But if God so clothes the grass of the field, which today is alive and tomorrow is thrown into the oven, will he not much more clothe you, O you of little faith? 31 Therefore do not be anxious, saying, ‘What shall we eat?’ or ‘What shall we drink?’ or ‘What shall we wear?’ 32 For the Gentiles seek after all these things, and your heavenly Father knows that you need them all. 33 But seek first the kingdom of God and his righteousness, and all these things will be added to you.

Still doesn't answer the question "of value to whom?"

 

[Ntharotep]

It's faith if you know the message is coming from God. If you're just pretending to know, it's something a lot less noble.

Very true. And there have been several occasions where Christians have ignored their "Sinner Sense tingling" because what was before them was just too "good".

It's been brought up in this thread before, but how can you claim that people would be "forced" to love him if they were sure of his existence? There have always been contrarians among us who knowingly believe in the irrational, such as flat earthers.

Considering the story goes that the Devil knew God closely and still managed to rebel...

Maybe and maybe not. There is no proof or evidence one way or the other.

That's not true!
I'm pretty sure Desperado has proof that he wasn't picked up for the draft...
Oh.

 

[ludin]

Still doesn't answer the question "of value to whom?"

actually it does if you read the verse. so you read think on it and try to understand.

 

[Desperado]

..I do believe that God does help and answer prayers I have seen it time and time
again not only in my life but others.

Yes, in this illusion or dream we call "reality", prayer may simply be "thought pressure" that can manipulate it.
We can therefore regard Jesus as a 'Master of the Art of Dream Manipulation', bending "reality" to produce what looked like miracles to people, and he said we could do it too ("moving mountains") if we had the knack.

"All that we see or seem, is but a dream within a dream"- Edgar Allen Poe
"You can be in my dream if i can be in your dream" -Bob Dylan
"We are such stuff as dreams are made on" -The Tempest
"Strawberry Fields, nothing is real" - The Beatles
"Reality is merely an illusion, albeit a very persistent one'' -Einstein
"What is your life? You are a mist that appears for a little while and then vanishes" (Bible: James 4:14)
"Have you ever had a dream that you were so sure was real? How would you know the difference between the dream world and the real world?"- Morpheus in The Matrix
"The [quantum] atoms or elementary particles themselves are not real; they form a world of potentialities or possibilities rather than one of things or facts"
– Prof. Werner Heisenberg (Nobel Prize winner in Physics)

 

[Desperado]

Nonsense. You might want to study the Bible sometime instead of gushing over Lady Gaga.

Steady on, she sang a great Star Spangled Banner at the Superbowl..

 

[Desperado]

..I'm pretty sure Desperado has proof that he wasn't picked up for the draft...
Oh.

What draft? I'm English so I never got called up for Nam.
Nearly joined the Brit Army some years ago though, i sent off for some colour brochures but when they arrived I changed my mind because I knew I wouldn't be able to take any orders that I didn't agree with, or fight in wars that I didn't believe in.
Got a shock a couple of weeks later when a 'Sergeant Butterfield' came knocking my door in full dress uniform, stripes and all, on a courtesy follow-up visit. I never answered and dived behind the settee to take cover til he'd left a calling card and gone.
PS- There was an enlistment form at the back of one of the brochures, so later I filled it in with the name and address of a kid down the road who nobody liked and sent it in, dunno if they ever came for him..

 

[Logicman]

I'm amazed how obvious you make it that you haven't read a word I've posted.

Bull. I quoted them, and then busted them.

 

[Logicman]

Steady on, she sang a great Star Spangled Banner at the Superbowl..

And sang it well. But is she going to heaven?

John 3:36

 

[DifferentDrummr]

actually it does if you read the verse. so you read think on it and try to understand.

No it doesn't - and if it did you would be explaining how. You clearly don't understand any part of either testament as well as I do.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Bull. I quoted them, and then busted them.

You can quote words without reading them, as you're so awesome at demonstrating. The only thing you busted was your head on the sidewalk a few times.

 

[ludin]

No it doesn't - and if it did you would be explaining how. You clearly don't understand any part of either testament as well as I do.

No I understand it just fine.
you obiviously can't read the verse.

Christ is talking to his disciples. by now they have left their homes, their families, and their jobs. they have gone against culturally everything they have known.
they have given it up to follow this prophet. I am sure they are worried about food, shelter, clothing etc...

So Christ responds to ease their fears and their doubts.

He is basically saying that if God cares enough to food the birds and to clothe the fields how much more does He care about you.
The whom that is being referred to in the passage is God.

I wasn't explaining it because I wasn't trying to get you to think for a bit. use a bit of logic and reasoning.
that exercise was a failure evidently.