Who enforces the constitution?

[Crimefree]

You have nothing to fear from President Trump when it comes to Second Amendment rights or hopefully any other of our rights. You DO have plenty to fear from the left should they succeed in destroying President Trump and regain control. I suggest that all of us who embrace the vision that the President has offered us and who is trying to achieve it should get behind him.

Do you see what the left is doing? On every single news blip, they are rushing to get a thread up with an anti-Trump thread title or other negative message in the thread title before any of us who want the President to succeed can start one. And they are in all threads en mass to disrupt, deflect, and make sure no positive message is allowed any chance to get legs.

It is hateful, deliberately malicious, and inevitable these days. I don't want any of us to be single issue focused or to get discouraged in getting honest information out there. If any issue on gun control surfaces from this administration, I will be right there defending the Second Amendment as I am trying to defend the rest of the Constitution now.

What you are doing is great but this is a small arena. If the same effort and number of keystrokes went into newspapers for example how many would read it in comparison. Wasting all on the converted is not that efficient but gives one experience of what drives the opposition and what topics are important.

I cannot see why you are not single issue focused when there are so many SINGLE ISSUE active groups doing good work in protecting people rights with the glaring exception of firearm owners. Which organisation leaps to defend firearm owners when their good name is dragged through the mud or government comes to take our rights? What have you against such an organisation? Are you suggesting firearm owners are better off without or there is no need? We have firearm organisations at present, few seem interested in taking this fight to gun controls weak point and only way of conquest. The difference you are missing is the organisation is single issue and has to be to be effective.

Now what you describe happening to the President is exactly what firearm owners should be doing to gun control utterances, announcements, research and media hyperbole. There is no win in such circumstances. Mixed messages simply make very little progress in any direction. What makes huge progress is when one side has it all. First principle of propaganda, control the media either by censorship or simply as the media supplier.

Single issue organisations appeal to those who know the value of the service they provide. For firearm owners that is operating a range, sports, education, training...... but defending our rights is nowhere to be seen yet the most important because without those rights the rest is moot.

 

[Crimefree]

lol...that's a rather naive view of the process.

What am I supposed to do with this idiotic unevidenced assertion? Are you talking to yourself? Don't waste time writing it then.

 

[Crimefree]

What Crimefree is missing here, or maybe he just does not want to deal with it in this context, is that we reelect something like 90% of our various representatives even though the Congress itself has an approval rating slightly above that of finding cockroaches in our salad. In state legislatures and governorships, the winning percentages for the incumbents are probably even higher.

So, if he or anyone else is unhappy with how the constitution is being enforced or upheld, he has only himself and the other voters to blame.

So you agree government must obey the constitution and swears an oath to do so. That if government does not obey voters may force a correction is but one of several remedies available to the people. It has nothing to do with government policing or enforcing the constitution itself. Government must act in accordance with the constitution and that is all it can do. Apparently you do not understand that process.

That begs the question who policies and enforces the constitution?

 

[calamity]

What am I supposed to do with this idiotic unevidenced assertion? Are you talking to yourself? Don't waste time writing it then.

This statement: "I'll add for clarity our rights are not up for grabs. That cannot be changed by any process."

...is a rather naive view of the process.

Our rights are up for grabs all the time. Most of mine are up in the air right now as the GOP and the Trumpettes try to rewrite all the laws of the land. You just don't see it that way because you like Trump and his band of merry men. You only feel rights are at risk when the Left is in power.

 

[calamity]

So you agree government must obey the constitution and swears an oath to do so. That if government does not obey voters may force a correction is but one of several remedies available to the people. It has nothing to do with government policing or enforcing the constitution itself. Government must act in accordance with the constitution and that is all it can do. Apparently you do not understand that process.

That begs the question who policies and enforces the constitution?

The bold is not true. You may want it to be so. But, it is not how it is.

 

[Crimefree]

Uh, the constitution does not boil down to a 30-second soundbite or 140 character quote. Read the damned thing. OK?

Idiotic deflection, strawman argument. Reading it will not produce the answer. Cognitive dissonance is obvious here. You should look into that.

So you admit no such words exist you have had more than enough chance to explain it. If you need 10,000 words to do that you are blowing smoke again and have nothing. I have read those words and there is nothing there that supports your false claim, not even you can produce them or explain why your lie of a claim is not a lie.

 

[AlbqOwl]

What you are doing is great but this is a small arena. If the same effort and number of keystrokes went into newspapers for example how many would read it in comparison. Wasting all on the converted is not that efficient but gives one experience of what drives the opposition and what topics are important.

I cannot see why you are not single issue focused when there are so many SINGLE ISSUE active groups doing good work in protecting people rights with the glaring exception of firearm owners. Which organisation leaps to defend firearm owners when their good name is dragged through the mud or government comes to take our rights? What have you against such an organisation? Are you suggesting firearm owners are better off without or there is no need? We have firearm organisations at present, few seem interested in taking this fight to gun controls weak point and only way of conquest. The difference you are missing is the organisation is single issue and has to be to be effective.

Now what you describe happening to the President is exactly what firearm owners should be doing to gun control utterances, announcements, research and media hyperbole. There is no win in such circumstances. Mixed messages simply make very little progress in any direction. What makes huge progress is when one side has it all. First principle of propaganda, control the media either by censorship or simply as the media supplier.

Single issue organisations appeal to those who know the value of the service they provide. For firearm owners that is operating a range, sports, education, training...... but defending our rights is nowhere to be seen yet the most important because without those rights the rest is moot.

I can't be a single issue person because I see the big picture and what is happening to the country across the broad spectrum. Those who focus on a single issue are likely to miss that and be lulled into a very dangerous complacency--dangerous for those of us who value all our blessings of liberty.

 

[Crimefree]

I can't be a single issue person because I see the big picture and what is happening to the country across the broad spectrum. Those who focus on a single issue are likely to miss that and be lulled into a very dangerous complacency--dangerous for those of us who value all our blessings of liberty.

I was not asking you to be single issue and this is the third time I am trying to tell you that a single issue ORGANISATION is needed. Citizens have far to much going on to be single issue but they can prioritise and feel strongly about some issues more than others.

Fact is most are so thinly spread out they never see the big issue and have no way of collating the information to find the weak points. So the unscrupulous present their issue as the most important keeping it in the news and apportioning blame on the target of their fear and anger.

Seeing the big picture is only of use if it is understood discarding the less important that are not vital to success. Now as you correctly say the US well actually the world is in a mess and at some point something has to give. What will be the very best situation to be in to survive that.

In your big picture what is the critical path to success or survival.

 

[Crimefree]

This statement: "I'll add for clarity our rights are not up for grabs. That cannot be changed by any process."

...is a rather naive view of the process.

Which part of an unevidenced assertion was confusing to you that you obviously completely ignored in this abject ignorance demonstrated

Our rights are up for grabs all the time.

No they are not and you have shown no evidence of that. Were slaves right to freedom ever removed? They may well have been denied by the slaves captors but removed no. Thought is such a wonderful process and allows one to figure out reality far better that some idiots version.

Most of mine are up in the air right now as the GOP and the Trumpettes try to rewrite all the laws of the land. You just don't see it that way because you like Trump and his band of merry men. You only feel rights are at risk when the Left is in power.

Apparently you find learning a great difficulty so I'll be patient and explain again, you know nothing about me do not be so crass as to pretend you know what I do or not do. Have you got it this time?

What you do with your rights is your business. If you wish to see yourself as a helpless pawn of government and have given up before the fight has even begun, be my guest. Just remember it is your choice to give up your rights and that is the only way they can be taken.

Rights are at risk with any government, or person is in power. The only currency of politics is power and that is the only thing that counts or that can be relied on. Why do you think government needs restraint? Who do you think applies that restraint? What do you think happens when that restraint is not applied?

 

[Crimefree]

The bold is not true. You may want it to be so. But, it is not how it is.

Unevidenced assertions do not warrant a response. Wrong, wrong and wrong in that order.

 

[calamity]

Which part of an unevidenced assertion was confusing to you that you obviously completely ignored in this abject ignorance demonstrated



No they are not and you have shown no evidence of that. Were slaves right to freedom ever removed? They may well have been denied by the slaves captors but removed no. Thought is such a wonderful process and allows one to figure out reality far better that some idiots version.



Apparently you find learning a great difficulty so I'll be patient and explain again, you know nothing about me do not be so crass as to pretend you know what I do or not do. Have you got it this time?

What you do with your rights is your business. If you wish to see yourself as a helpless pawn of government and have given up before the fight has even begun, be my guest. Just remember it is your choice to give up your rights and that is the only way they can be taken.

Rights are at risk with any government, or person is in power. The only currency of politics is power and that is the only thing that counts or that can be relied on. Why do you think government needs restraint? Who do you think applies that restraint? What do you think happens when that restraint is not applied?

lol...my right to clean air and water is under threat today thanks to your side. Also, it now looks like my right to attend an Arkansas Razorback football game without worrying about two rednecks getting into a gunfight is also going to be under threat thanks to the gun nuts in that state.

Arkansas Senate votes to exempt stadiums from gun law; measure goes to House

Rights are under threat all the time, especially when the wrong people are in office.

 

[calamity]

Unevidenced assertions do not warrant a response. Wrong, wrong and wrong in that order.

Who's going to make them do this? "Government must act in accordance with the constitution and that is all it can do."


Are you going to go in their with your 2nd Amendment rights and set them all straight if they deviate from what you think is a constitutional right?

 

[Rucker61]

lol...my right to clean air and water is under threat today thanks to your side. Also, it now looks like my right to attend an Arkansas Razorback football game without worrying about two rednecks getting into a gunfight is also going to be under threat thanks to the gun nuts in that state.

Does Arkansas currently prevent guns from being brought into the stadium?

 

[calamity]

Does Arkansas currently prevent guns from being brought into the stadium?

from what I can read, yes.

 

[Rucker61]

from what I can read, yes.

How do they do that?

 

[Crimefree]

Who's going to make them do this? "Government must act in accordance with the constitution and that is all it can do."

Deflection that is not what you claimed.

Are you going to go in their with your 2nd Amendment rights and set them all straight if they deviate from what you think is a constitutional right?

When Daniel Webster called on these same principles in response to military conscription plans during the war of 1812, he said:

“The operation of measures thus unconstitutional and illegal ought to be prevented by a resort to other measures which are both constitutional and legal. It will be the solemn duty of the State governments to protect their own authority over their own militia, and to interpose between their citizens and arbitrary power. These are among the objects for which the State governments exist; and their highest obligations bind them to the preservation of their own rights and the liberties of their people”

Here’s the bottom line. You are not supposed to wait 2 or 4 years for some new politicians to get in office and give your permission to be free. You are not supposed to wait 2 or 4 or 6 years for some federal court to tell you, “ok, you be free now.”

You are supposed to stand up resist, refuse to comply and nullify unconstitutional federal acts – as soon as they happen.

All the money and time you throw at firing congress or winning in federal court will never, ever work – unless you start resisting right here in your state. And, that resistance needs to be your first response, not your last.

 

[Crimefree]

How do they do that?

Same way the idiots stopped people drinking. It's all in their delusion.

 

[AlbqOwl]

I was not asking you to be single issue and this is the third time I am trying to tell you that a single issue ORGANISATION is needed. Citizens have far to much going on to be single issue but they can prioritise and feel strongly about some issues more than others.

Fact is most are so thinly spread out they never see the big issue and have no way of collating the information to find the weak points. So the unscrupulous present their issue as the most important keeping it in the news and apportioning blame on the target of their fear and anger.

Seeing the big picture is only of use if it is understood discarding the less important that are not vital to success. Now as you correctly say the US well actually the world is in a mess and at some point something has to give. What will be the very best situation to be in to survive that.

In your big picture what is the critical path to success or survival.

I have no problem with the NRA. I was a dues paying member for a long time and still admire them for the good work they do. And I figure they're watching the second amendment issues pretty closely as those come up.

As far as the big picture is concerned in what I want for the country, I want progressiveism and its primary weapon of political correctness defeated and allocated to a dark corner somewhere. In its place I want a restoration of the blessings of liberty the Constitution intended for us to have. And among those blessings is a cohesive culture and shared values in which all can thrive but that also allows true diversity in which we are not all required to think, believe, and speak in lockstep in order to be acceptable. That was what led to this country's success and survival in the first place, and I believe the same concepts provide us with success and survival now.

I want just a remnant of progressiveism/statism/Marxism/political class/Leftism to remain to remind us that it is there and how dangerous it is so that we won't be so unwary that we become complacent again and allow it a powerful foothold.

 

[Crimefree]

I have no problem with the NRA. I was a dues paying member for a long time and still admire them for the good work they do. And I figure they're watching the second amendment issues pretty closely as those come up.

As far as the big picture is concerned in what I want for the country, I want progressiveism and its primary weapon of political correctness defeated and allocated to a dark corner somewhere. In its place I want a restoration of the blessings of liberty the Constitution intended for us to have. And among those blessings is a cohesive culture and shared values in which all can thrive but that also allows true diversity in which we are not all required to think, believe, and speak in lockstep in order to be acceptable. That was what led to this country's success and survival in the first place, and I believe the same concepts provide us with success and survival now.

I want just a remnant of progressiveism/statism/Marxism/political class/Leftism to remain to remind us that it is there and how dangerous it is so that we won't be so unwary that we become complacent again and allow it a powerful foothold.

Thanks for the response and info but not very practical at all. It is one thing to want and another to do. Perhaps a finer point that is missed is the fact the rights enumerated in the constitution were valued by citizens who were far more willing to stand up and protect them. What is also apparent is right from the beginning government has managed to sell a load of crap as for the good of the people simply because there was nobody to promote opposition.

As for the NRA is does everything but protect those rights and is often seen cuddled up with government discussing loss of those right. That is as recently as Sandy Hook where parents and teachers rights were tossed out the window in order to suggest trained guards (conveniently trained by the NRA) Nobody could miss the opportunity lost to attack the schools gun free act in preference to selling services. The same goes for collaboration on registration and back ground checks which the NRA knows full well are useless and intended as footholds only. At every opportunity the NRA backs away from actually doing anything about legislation. I use the example of California and observation says if the NRA cannot win in California is cannot win anywhere else. That is so true and a reflection of the worth of the NRA in keeping our rights.

 

[Crimefree]

lol...my right to clean air and water is under threat today thanks to your side. Also, it now looks like my right to attend an Arkansas Razorback football game without worrying about two rednecks getting into a gunfight is also going to be under threat thanks to the gun nuts in that state.

You do not have a right to clean air or water. Nor is it affirmed by the constitution. Deflection, strawman good grief can you not help yourself?

Is your mental condition satisfactory to own a gun when you believe in falsity and lies and demonstrate a willingness to punish others for no good reason you have been able to establish as factual? I suggest you examine your own condition with the the same jaundiced eye before making such patently false accusations. What can be more scary than lunatics who are afraid of objects and believe these objects control people.

Rights are under threat all the time, especially when the wrong people are in office.

Rights are always under threat, pay attention to what you cannot and have not refuted. The only currency of politics is power.

 

[calamity]

You do not have a right to clean air or water. Nor is it affirmed by the constitution. Deflection, strawman good grief can you not help yourself?

Is your mental condition satisfactory to own a gun when you believe in falsity and lies and demonstrate a willingness to punish others for no good reason you have been able to establish as factual? I suggest you examine your own condition with the the same jaundiced eye before making such patently false accusations. What can be more scary than lunatics who are afraid of objects and believe these objects control people.

Rights are always under threat, pay attention to what you cannot and have not refuted. The only currency of politics is power.

If the constitution does not give me the right to clean air and water or to be secure in my person as I watch a football game, it's worthless. Certainly such a useless scrap of paper with empty words is not worth defending to the tune of a trillion dollars a year.

If a country this rich and powerful refuses to take the steps to ensure its people such basic protections, it's then not really a country that exists for the people to be run by the people. But, I suspect you are wrong. So, I'll continue to fight for my constitutional rights while you fight to strip me of them.

 

[Rucker61]

If the constitution does not give me the right to clean air and water or to be secure in my person as I watch a football game, it's worthless. Certainly such a useless scrap of paper with empty words is not worth defending to the tune of a trillion dollars a year.

If a country this rich and powerful refuses to take the steps to ensure its people such basic protections, it's then not really a country that exists for the people to be run by the people. But, I suspect you are wrong. So, I'll continue to fight for my constitutional rights while you fight to strip me of them.

The Constitution doesn't give you any rights.

 

[calamity]

The Constitution doesn't give you any rights.

I guess that's one opinion.

 

[Crimefree]

I guess that's one opinion.

It is not an opinion. It is a fact, the constitution is not the source of rights. So go ahead and for once in your life provide some evidence of your assertion.

 

[Crimefree]

If the constitution does not give me the right to clean air and water or to be secure in my person as I watch a football game, it's worthless. Certainly such a useless scrap of paper with empty words is not worth defending to the tune of a trillion dollars a year.

You have rights, the constitution enumerates those rights. You want a big brother to protect you go somewhere else. UK would be a good start. In a free society it is your duty to protect yourself. You want water go find it. You want to be secure in your person learn to defend yourself. The more than a few trillion dollars is due to government that does not act in the interests of the people and people to apathetic and stupid to object to governments embrace of the worlds largest ponzi scheme, the IMF

If a country this rich and powerful refuses to take the steps to ensure its people such basic protections, it's then not really a country that exists for the people to be run by the people. But, I suspect you are wrong. So, I'll continue to fight for my constitutional rights while you fight to strip me of them.

If idiots keep redirecting government into wasting money, time, resources and manpower into chasing guns instead of criminals WTF were you expecting?

You cannot redirect government in to frivolous and useless tasks and expect top performance. What do you think is wasted on chasing guns each year? What do you think is spent on the war on drugs, a war that cannot be won and is equally useless?