Who determines what's offensive? Coal miners at a pub, or offensive blackface?

[trouble13]

Did you type this with a straight face? Or did you just think your ignorant hypocrisy would go unnoticed?

On the same day you said you weren't fond of calling people snowflakes in this thread, you made this post in another thread calling a woman with a rare form of dwarfism a snowflake for objecting to her boss moving boxes she needs to access every single day up and out of her reach.

Reading comprehension isnt really your strong suit. Pay close attention to the bolded part

I'm not a fan of calling people snowflakes and can see how some may be offended by it but I would not try to ban people from using it or even selfcensor myself from using it if I felt it was applicable to the context of the situtation.

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[tres borrachos]

Reading comprehension isnt really your strong suit. Pay close attention to the bolded part






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Yes, I can read. You think someone who is a dwarf is a snowflake. You were a fan of calling her that too.

Compassion. Stay classy. Dwarves should not complain that they can't reach things. Such terrible people.

 

[Xelor]

I can on two hands count the quantity of folks whom I've come by who have remarked one way or the other about blackface and who also have any idea of what it is and what it is not. Among the defining qualities of blackface itself is artifice applied to fair skin such that it misrepresentationally exaggerates those African Americans outwardly physical traits that whites summarily deemed as ugly and/or indicative of Black's being an inferior form of human, though plenty of whites construed Blacks as simian more so than human. In short, blackface is artifice applied to define qualities of "otherness" with regard to humanity.

• Representations of Blackface and Minstrelsy in Twenty First Century Popular Culture
• American Negro Minstrelsy: Good, Bad, or Somewhere In-between?
• Love and Theft: The Racial Unconscious of Blackface Minstrelsy

But that's' just the application of the makeup itself, and historical inaccuracy in its application does not make modern manifestations of blackface any less opprobrious. It doesn't because, as is explained in the three documents above, there's so much more to it than just makeup applied to fair skin.

Among folks who understand the multiple manners making blackface "20 kinds of wrong," it's unsurprising and not necessarily unnatural that they'd see soot-covered white guys from days gone by and have come to mind minstrelsy, its blackface characters, and all the baggage that comes with it; moreover, it's fitting that one should find such notions repugnant. Accordingly, it strikes me as reasonable that upon seeing the photo of the miners that someone might say, "That photo, even though it depicts miners covered in coal grime, evokes images and notions of minstrelsy and blackface, and I don't enjoy coming to a restaurant and being beset with imagery that does that."


As for what's offensive, well blackface damn sure is. Who decided that it is? Well, one'd think that each of us has individually come to do that of our own cognition; thus the answer is "everyone individually whereupon such a conclusion is arrived at collectively yet, by now, 2019 concurrently." If one isn't among the folks who've come to that comprehension, one should read the above linked-to documents.

"Not necessarily unnatural"? What does that even mean? Instead of being buried in victimhood and having it drilled into their brains that wealthy, heterosexual, white males are out to screw them, maybe it would do them some good to see that life wasn't always a bed of roses for working-class whites, who never had much hope of going to college where they could become tools of progressive morons who believe that, like Neverland, Utopia can be real.



In the present context, which isn't in any way, shape, or form related to minstrels or race, it isn't fitting or reasonable to find a photo of white coal miners with coal dust on their skin "repugnant." But I do find that suggestion repugnant.



I suppose the same people who decided what obscenity is. They can't define it, but they know it when they see it. That's fine. We had a "national discussion," so to speak, on blackface and came to the conclusion that maybe it wasn't a good idea. Knowing what know now, we can agree to find blackface offensive. I suppose that's progress. That doesn't mean we should toss The Jazz Singer on a pyre. It's part of this nation's history, and it should be preserved as a noteworthy work in cinema.

Re: Ahlevah's "blue" response to my "blue" text:

• "Evokes images and notions of minstrelsy and blackface" does not assert or imply that one finds repugnant a photo of soot-covered miners.
• Every figurative photo's temporal context is that of the moment in time it depicts, not the present. For example, the figurative photos below don't for astute or casual observers evoke images and notions of minstrelsy and blackface" because their temporal context, unlike the above photo of miners, is clearly not the early 20th century.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  

 

[trouble13]

Yes, I can read. You think someone who is a dwarf is a snowflake. You were a fan of calling her that too.

Compassion. Stay classy. Dwarves should not complain that they can't reach things. Such terrible people.

You really do need things broken down to their simplest form in order to be able get it. Here you go...

She is complaining that she is being discriminated against because her boss does not give her preferential treatment to compensate for her height. That is an example of being a snowflake. Maybe she has not heard about this new technology that you all been bragging out. It's called a ladder.

You are just as bad as her thinking she is immune from being criticized for being lazy just because she is abnormally short. Being short does not give her a free pass.

You all like to preach equality until your given it and find you dont like how it tastes.

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[Ahlevah]

Clearly this woman is making fun of people with Fugate Disease.

I wonder how many people will be triggered by Rob Gronkowski on Sunday, I mean since context is irrelevant.



https://healthyceleb.com/rob-gronkowski-height-weight-body-statistics/56142

 

[tres borrachos]

You really do need things broken down to their simplest form in order to be able get it. Here you go...

She is complaining that she is being discriminated against because her boss does not give her preferential treatment to compensate for her height. That is an example of being a snowflake. Maybe she has not heard about this new technology that you all been bragging out. It's called a ladder.

You are just as bad as her thinking she is immune from being criticized for being lazy just because she is abnormally short. Being short does not give her a free pass.

You all like to preach equality until your given it and find you dont like how it tastes.

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She complained because he moved the boxes out of her reach. You called her a "snowflake". People with shreds of decency call her a handicapped woman, a dwarf who needs things within her reach. But I didn't expect anything less of you. Of course you hate dwarves.

 

[trouble13]

She complained because he moved the boxes out of her reach. You called her a "snowflake". People with shreds of decency call her a handicapped woman, a dwarf who needs things within her reach. But I didn't expect anything less of you. Of course you hate dwarves.

Your self righteous BS doesn't wash with me.

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[Ahlevah]

Since context is irrelevant, Joe Biden in blackface:



Ash Wednesday around the world - Boston.com

 

[Ahlevah]

at your age, you haven't figured out that 'real dick' status is not codified by their thoughts on any topic including hats or racism at all. It is codified only in what they say or what they do

Right, because our tin hats are telling us what anyone who wears a MAGA hat in public is thinking, we just know he has to be a bigot.

 

[tres borrachos]

Since context is irrelevant, Joe Biden in blackface:

View attachment 67249393

Ash Wednesday around the world - Boston.com

That isn't blackface. That's a smudge of ashes on his forehead. Not sure what this means.

And before attacking me, please remember that I share your opinion that the outrage over the coal miners picture is stupid. It's coal miners, IMO, and even if it wasn't, then anyone having vapors over the picture and is triggered by it should simply avoid the restaurant.

 

[lwf]

How about a father who takes his young daughter on camping trips and sleeps in the same tent with her? Who's the fool here? The "creepy" father or the Me Too moms who find him creepy?

It's about how we react to unreasonably offended people. It is unreasonable for a father to avoid sleeping in the same tent as his daughter just because a MeToo mom finds it creepy. It is not unreasonable to take down a picture that you know has offended more than one person in your restaurant, even if the picture shouldn't reasonably offend them.

It is unreasonable to be offended by benign cursing, yet when I know someone nearby is offended by even benign cursing I avoid it because it is the nice thing to do. Deliberately cursing around people who you know are offended by it is rude and inconsiderate, and others have every right to judge you for being rude and inconsiderate.

 

[Ahlevah]

That isn't blackface. That's a smudge of ashes on his forehead. Not sure what this means.

In logic its called reductio ad absurdum, or reduction to absurdity. In argument and debate (argumentum ad absurdum) it's sometimes employed as a fallacious means to defeat an argument. In the instant case, I'm not claiming Mr. Thomas' argument is false because a Catholic on Ash Wednesday would necessarily be equated with someone in blackface. What I did was illustrate the absurdity his argument could be taken to IF we always exclude context.

And before attacking me, please remember that I share your opinion that the outrage over the coal miners picture is stupid. It's coal miners, IMO, and even if it wasn't, then anyone having vapors over the picture and is triggered by it should simply avoid the restaurant.

You're fine. But in another thread I must admit I was about to ask you if you had to feed your cats, but then thought better of it. :2wave:

 

[tres borrachos]

In logic its called reductio ad absurdum, or reduction to absurdity. In argument and debate (argumentum ad absurdum) it's sometimes employed as a fallacious means to defeat an argument. In the instant case, I'm not claiming Mr. Thomas' argument is false because a Catholic on Ash Wednesday would necessarily be equated with someone in blackface. What I did was illustrate the absurdity his argument could be taken to IF we always exclude context.



You're fine. But in another thread I must admit I was about to ask you if you had to feed your cats, but then thought better of it. :2wave:

Feed my cats? I have one cat, and yes, he is fed every day. Please do explain what my cat, who I seldom if ever post about, has to do with anything.

 

[Ahlevah]

Feed my cats? I have one cat, and yes, he is fed every day. Please do explain what my cat, who I seldom if ever post about, has to do with anything.

Absolutely nothing. Forget about it. :lol:

 

[tres borrachos]

Absolutely nothing. Forget about it. :lol:

So why did you bring up my cat if I don't post about him, ever?

 

[Ahlevah]

So why did you bring up my cat if I don't post about him, ever?

Well, you have a horse on your avatar, so I assumed you might have horses as well as cats, since they're useful for keeping rodents out of barns. Sometimes I think too much. But I promise you I'm not a stalker or medium.

 

[tres borrachos]

Well, you have a horse on your avatar, so I assumed you might have horses as well as cats, since they're useful for keeping rodents out of barns. Sometimes I think too much. But I promise you I'm not a stalker or medium.

HAHA okay. Now I get it.

My user name is actually the name of one of my favorite racehorses, Tres Borrachos. He retired from CA racing a few years back. I always enjoyed his name. He was owned by 3 men and they claim to have named him after themselves (3 drunks). Because my user name is all about a horse, i tend to have horse pictures as my avatar. I don't actually own any horses. Just a horse racing fan.

We do have 1 cat, but he's an indoor fat thing.

 

[trouble13]

It's about how we react to unreasonably offended people. It is unreasonable for a father to avoid sleeping in the same tent as his daughter just because a MeToo mom finds it creepy. It is not unreasonable to take down a picture that you know has offended more than one person in your restaurant, even if the picture shouldn't reasonably offend them.

It is unreasonable to be offended by benign cursing, yet when I know someone nearby is offended by even benign cursing I avoid it because it is the nice thing to do. Deliberately cursing around people who you know are offended by it is rude and inconsiderate, and others have every right to judge you for being rude and inconsiderate.

That's funny because I believe you are guilty of the very behavior you are criticizing. Correct me if I am wrong but are you not one of the posters who frequently take shots at Trump and people who support him. You dont seem to be concerned about offending them. Why is that?

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[veritas1]

Why would a grown adult be afraid of their child seeing a topless woman?

And this has what to do with the quack offended by coal miners?

 

[Ahlevah]

If MAGA hats worn by whites are code for "I'm a bigot," then NRA TV's Colion Noir is a walking billboard for a gang bangin' thug, because 1) he's young; 2) he's black; 3) he's carrying a gun; and, last but not least 4) he's wearing a Cincinnati Reds ball cap, which is code for being a member of a Bloods-affiliated street gang. If he were wearing a blue cap he'd be a crip.

 

[Ahlevah]

HAHA okay. Now I get it.

My user name is actually the name of one of my favorite racehorses, Tres Borrachos. He retired from CA racing a few years back. I always enjoyed his name. He was owned by 3 men and they claim to have named him after themselves (3 drunks). Because my user name is all about a horse, i tend to have horse pictures as my avatar. I don't actually own any horses. Just a horse racing fan.

We do have 1 cat, but he's an indoor fat thing.

Gothcha!

 

[Ahlevah]

It is unreasonable to be offended by benign cursing, yet when I know someone nearby is offended by even benign cursing I avoid it because it is the nice thing to do. Deliberately cursing around people who you know are offended by it is rude and inconsiderate, and others have every right to judge you for being rude and inconsiderate.

There's a pretty good history in this country concerning foul language being considered offensive, at least among cultured circles. Maybe in some communities it's normal to drop "benign" f-bombs at the family dinner table (assuming there is one) on Thanksgiving while passing the mashed potatoes, but at mine that would be thought of as disrespectful, inconsiderate, and an exhibition of low class. On the other hand, if someone is routinely offended by things that reasonable people consider innocuous because he's trying to drive a political agenda, then he can judge me all he wants while he takes a hike.

 

[lwf]

And this has what to do with the quack offended by coal miners?

It shows that you are a pot calling a kettle black.

 

[lwf]

There's a pretty good history in this country concerning foul language being considered offensive, at least among cultured circles. Maybe in some communities it's normal to drop "benign" f-bombs at the family dinner table (assuming there is one) on Thanksgiving while passing the mashed potatoes, but at mine that would be thought of as disrespectful, inconsiderate, and an exhibition of low class. On the other hand, if someone is routinely offended by things that reasonable people consider innocuous because he's trying to drive a political agenda, then he can judge me all he wants while he takes a hike.

Fair enough. The actions of the restaurant owner in the op were disrespectful, inconsiderate, and an exhibition of low class. You are free to disagree, just as I am free to disagree that dropping f-bombs at your dinner table on Thanksgiving is in any way inconsiderate.