Whitewashing Queen Nefertiti

[OldFatGuy]

Marilyn Monroe in Life Magazine.

You won ten gold stars. A photo shoot by Richard Avedon, featuring Marilyn appearing in 7 different iconic Hollywood sex symbol roles and costumes. This one as Theda Bara's Cleopatra. She is wearing Theda's costume from the movie. Theda was filmdom's first sex symbol, and the sole catalyst for the Catholic Code of Decency and the Hays Commission. Mae West liked to take credit for both, but she didn't transition to film until age 38 in 1931. Both had gotten their start in 1921 with Theda's release of Queen of Sheba (same costumes as her Cleopatra), as the Catholic Approval Committee and the congressional Decency Committee. Like a scene from the present, 6 members of the Decency Committee were arrested in 1923 for promoting prostitution in Maryland, where they owned a house of ill repute on the border of DC which many members of congress patronized. Two of them were known gunsels, a euphemism for gay. Gives a whole new meaning to the Maltese Falcon. Bogart to Greenstreet, "Give 'em the gunsel, your gunsel."

 

[holbritter]

Recreated face of Queen Nefertiti sparks 'whitewashing' race row | Fox News

What do you say, was Queen Nefertiti whitewashed or is this an accurate portrayal? Does it even matter?

By many accounts Egypt at that time was a multi-national society and without actually being there, it's hard to say. I do agree with one of the twitter users that I would see Iman as being more representative of what she may have looked like.

I think she looks right. She looks Egyptian to me.

 

[OldFatGuy]

You do realize that the British islands hunter gatherers are most likely a remnant of past hunter gatherers from Mainland Europe.... there were certainly White skinned hunter gatherers, because they fulfilled a opertunity niche in the environment before the land could start to be cultivated for agriculture(because it took many years for agriculture to be able to adapt to Europe)... but before them, the hunter gatherers were indeed black. White skin is often contributed as a adaptation to agriculture and climate, due to low vitamin D foods and low sunlight radiation.

The waving in of agriculutral people of the Causcuses... most likely had hunter gatherers on the edges of their societies move in before they fully did.

And this has nothing to do with European colonization or justification for anything lol

Thanks for proving your ignorance. The peoples of the Caucasus mountain ranges, the Causcuses, were Euroasian at the time of the early British hunter gathers, later modified by Slavic and Turkish invasions. Never identified by white or other fabricated races until German anthropologist Johann Blumenbach coined the term caucasian in 1807.

Meanwhile, back to the British isles. By the time Caesar and the Romans, before and after him, had invaded the isles, the dark skinned British, the Picts has already retreated to most northern England and Wales. The light pigment skinned Gaelic tribes having pushed them aside. Constant rape during wars, and later intermarriage lightened their skin pigmentation, but it didn't matter to the Romans. The got their butts kicked everytime they went to battle with the blue painted faces (read tattooed) of the Picts of northern England, already with their backs against a wall. A matter of less than 300 years.

This latest DNA analysis, just a confirmation of history already known.

BTW, the Celts, were an invention of the Romans, a phrase which meant enemy. The Romans called all their European enemies Celts until they ran into the Germanic tribes. The Etruscans were Celts by Roman definition. So were the Iberians of Gaul.

 

[celticwar17]

Thanks for proving your ignorance. The peoples of the Caucasus mountain ranges, the Causcuses, were Euroasian at the time of the early British hunter gathers, later modified by Slavic and Turkish invasions. Never identified by white or other fabricated races until German anthropologist Johann Blumenbach coined the term caucasian in 1807.

Meanwhile, back to the British isles. By the time Caesar and the Romans, before and after him, had invaded the isles, the dark skinned British, the Picts has already retreated to most northern England and Wales. The light pigment skinned Gaelic tribes having pushed them aside. Constant rape during wars, and later intermarriage lightened their skin pigmentation, but it didn't matter to the Romans. The got their butts kicked everytime they went to battle with the blue painted faces (read tattooed) of the Picts of northern England, already with their backs against a wall. A matter of less than 300 years.

This latest DNA analysis, just a confirmation of history already known.

BTW, the Celts, were an invention of the Romans, a phrase which meant enemy. The Romans called all their European enemies Celts until they ran into the Germanic tribes. The Etruscans were Celts by Roman definition. So were the Iberians of Gaul.

I don't think we are talking about the same thing lol... I don't think I said anything that was a counter to what you have just said... I am talking about prehistory... nothing about the romans

this might help me... what are you actually arguing against me?

 

[KevinKohler]

I'm literally on the pot pooping right now, and I still couldn't give 2 ****s.

 

[celticwar17]

Thanks for proving your ignorance. The peoples of the Caucasus mountain ranges, the Causcuses, were Euroasian at the time of the early British hunter gathers, later modified by Slavic and Turkish invasions. Never identified by white or other fabricated races until German anthropologist Johann Blumenbach coined the term caucasian in 1807.

Meanwhile, back to the British isles. By the time Caesar and the Romans, before and after him, had invaded the isles, the dark skinned British, the Picts has already retreated to most northern England and Wales. The light pigment skinned Gaelic tribes having pushed them aside. Constant rape during wars, and later intermarriage lightened their skin pigmentation, but it didn't matter to the Romans. The got their butts kicked everytime they went to battle with the blue painted faces (read tattooed) of the Picts of northern England, already with their backs against a wall. A matter of less than 300 years.

This latest DNA analysis, just a confirmation of history already known.

BTW, the Celts, were an invention of the Romans, a phrase which meant enemy. The Romans called all their European enemies Celts until they ran into the Germanic tribes. The Etruscans were Celts by Roman definition. So were the Iberians of Gaul.

Regardless, I think there is some interesting history here I'll want to investigate more.... though I don't think the Picts were black people, certainly... that would be the first time i have ever heard that particular fact xD. I was more talking about generally migration history of lighter skinned people into Europe.... you can of course get more detailed about how this happened, but I wasn't getting detailed.

I still don't know how this has anything to do with my overall point of the thread about Nefertiti.

 

[OldFatGuy]

I don't think we are talking about the same thing lol... I don't think I said anything that was a counter to what you have just said... I am talking about prehistory... nothing about the romans

this might help me... what are you actually arguing against me?

Timing and timelines. Any claims about race.

Prehistory, labeled neolithic, meaning we don't know jack, is not the issue as you expressed it. We now know that early mankind in Europe, Asia, Africa, Pacifica, India, the Americas, were far more sophisticated than we suspected, and race was an irrelevancy for them.

 

[OldFatGuy]

Regardless, I think there is some interesting history here I'll want to investigate more.... though I don't think the Picts were black people, certainly... that would be the first time i have ever heard that particular fact xD. I was more talking about generally migration history of lighter skinned people into Europe.... you can of course get more detailed about how this happened, but I wasn't getting detailed.

I still don't know how this has anything to do with my overall point of the thread about Nefertiti.

Reread.

 

[celticwar17]

Timing and timelines. Any claims about race.

Prehistory, labeled neolithic, meaning we don't know jack, is not the issue as you expressed it. We now know that early mankind in Europe, Asia, Africa, Pacifica, India, the Americas, were far more sophisticated than we suspected, and race was an irrelevancy for them.

The entire time, I was referencing prehistoric human history of Europe...

I honestly don't know why you brought up black people existed in Europe and the British Isles at one point... I don't know how that had anything to do with what I was saying. The Picts and other "dark skinned" Birtish isle people you were referencing... from what I understand were NOT subsahran african...
From what I understand(and I doubled checked to make sure after you brought it up) they are genetically similar to Gauls/Spaniards... which had darker skin color and hair... but certainly were not sub-Saharan... for all intents and purposes these people were what we would today describe as still "white European"

I thought you were talking about extremely ancient populations of actual black people in Europe like 30,000 years ago.... which, like I mentioned before... were eventually mixed and pushed out of Europe by Agricultural societies and hunter gatherers from the far north...

It is a incredibly complicated subject, but I really don't see how I was wrong in any of it lol.

And I still have no idea how this relates to Neferititi image being 100% plausible.

 

[calamity]

Recreated face of Queen Nefertiti sparks 'whitewashing' race row | Fox News

What do you say, was Queen Nefertiti whitewashed or is this an accurate portrayal? Does it even matter?

By many accounts Egypt at that time was a multi-national society and without actually being there, it's hard to say. I do agree with one of the twitter users that I would see Iman as being more representative of what she may have looked like.

She looks pretty damned fine to me.

 

[Roadvirus]

Scholars have been bickering for decades over the skin tone of the Ancient Egyptians. Some have said they had a dark complexion, some say they were light-skinned...the controversy over this is not exactly a new concept.

Therefore, i say this: life is too damn short to make hay over this, so let's all agree to disagree and move on with our lives!

 

[maxparrish]

The entire time, I was referencing prehistoric human history of Europe...

...I thought you were talking about extremely ancient populations of actual black people in Europe like 30,000 years ago.... which, like I mentioned before... were eventually mixed and pushed out of Europe by Agricultural societies and hunter gatherers from the far north...

It is a incredibly complicated subject, but I really don't see how I was wrong in any of it lol.

And I still have no idea how this relates to Nefertiti image being 100% plausible.

I believe you were correct in most or all of what you wrote - oldfatman was just spouting random grumpy bloviations.

And actually from what is known, the skin tone and look of the Nefertiti reconstruction (assuming the younger lady mummy is Nefertiti, which still remains a big if) it is most plausible. The supporting reasons being:

a) Nefertiti's parents are not known, but given what is known about her upbringing, she was either a member of the nobility or the royal family.

b) The royal court sculptor, Thutmose, was unusual for his time in that his work was often not stylized, but realistic. The discovery of his workshop not only uncovered the famous Nefertiti bust, but 22 other plaster face works, eight of which have been identified as members of the royal family (see one example below). Nefertiti's colored bust was thought to actually be a studio model, created to guide other creations of Nefertiti in the shop.

Obviously the look and skin tone of the studio natural-realism bust is very close to that of the modern reconstruction.

c) Most recently, a "team of international scientists from the University of Tuebingen and the Max Planck Institute for the Science of Human History in Germany analyzed the DNA of 93 Egyptian mummies dating from approximately 1400 BCE to 400 CE. The evidence from their study reveals a surprising close relation to ancient people of the Near East such as Armenians."

Their analyses revealed that ancient Egyptians shared more ancestry with Near Easterners in the Levant, as well as with neolithic Anatolian and European populations.

Furthermore, the researchers found that over the 1,300-year period that the mummies represented, the population genetics of the ancient Egypt stayed surprising stable, despite foreign invasions.

They found that the genetics did not undergo any major shifts during the 1,300-year timespan studied, believe that the population remained, genetically, relatively unaffected by foreign conquest and rule.

Therefore, the evidence is that the skin tone (and look) is most plausible as they were not negroid or even north-west African.

Another example of Thutmose's works:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Thutm...Woman-ThutmoseWorkshop_MetropolitanMuseum.png

 

[Vetplus40]

When I first saw the picture, I thought it was Cleopatra.....

View attachment 67228472

It wasn't that many years ago that some experts were thinking that Cleopatra may well have been Nubian.

 

[maxparrish]

It wasn't that many years ago that some experts were thinking that Cleopatra may well have been Nubian.

Actually most of those "experts" were not real experts, but Afrocentrism cranks of dubious backgrounds. An interesting book by Mary Lefkowitz ("Not Out of Africa" -1997), herself a real expert, demolished the nonsense.