White privilege

[Partsguy57]

You call it complaining. I call it standing up for my childs god given right to be treated as an equal regardless of his skin color.

You sir would have me act the coward and simply run away.. probably so guys like you can feel better about your attitudes. Learn to deal with reality.

If you feel you kids are being negatively affected you are failing them as a parent. Period!! You admitted you are rich and that gives you more choices then some have at this point and don't take action you are a failure as a parent or are greatly exaggerating the problem. Again choices, if you put your children in that position you are at fault..

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[Partsguy57]

Except you fail to recognize that the culture and neighborhood were and are to some extent today created by racism and discrimination. and that has lasting effects.

Whether your parents are college educated is a determiner of your likelihood of going to college and graduating.

So, if your grandfather was denied going to college because of the color of his skin.. his child is less likely to go to college, and his child is less likely to go to college.. so on and so forth.

Something outside the culture has to step up and make that difference.

Sigh.... it's easier for a person of color to get into college then a white guy now..... just stop with the excuses, poor is poor because of poor choices.

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[Cable]

I'm going to write this to all of you because it summarizes my point and I don't feel like making 10 different replies.

An analogy for what's being argued would be like comparing the US and Guatemala. Guatemala has roughly 1/16th the per capita GDP that the US has. Are there some very rich and successful Guatemalans? Absolutely. Are there people in the US of all backgrounds dramatically poorer than some Guatemalans? Also, absolutely. This does not mean that the level of opportunity and net wealth for the average Guatemalan is the same as it is for the average American. The level of poverty is much higher in Guatemala than it is in the US.

Rest assured, hyperventilating white people, nobody is saying white poverty shouldn't be addressed just as well as everyone else's. Our social services aren't based on race, they're based on level of poverty, so refusing to recognize that there is a racial wealth disparity in the first place doesn't really serve any other purpose than making yourself feel good.

I am sure there is a racial wealth disparity, and a power disparity, and probably many other disparities. But stupid things like affirmative action do nothing to help.
Social Services shouldn't be considered a way of life by any culture. It should be considered a hand up at most, and something to be quickly got off of.
Relying on it as a way of life is a sure way to keep yourself and your family in poverty indefinitely. This is the err of the Left, to think these things help anyone.
They might help a few, but they hurt far more.

 

[Partsguy57]

Were not Guatemala....... the vast majority of people in this country remain poor because of poor choices

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[jaeger19]

But there are also those who are demanding equal pay for equal work without demonstrating equal capabilities, and they are militant about it. There are also 14 year old brats who refuse to do their school work and lie to their parents about it. The parents then tell the teacher "my child does not lie". Really? All kids lie...
It ain't easy to please everyone and it should not be required to please everyone, whether it be the worker
or the student. My teacher wife knows all too well about some students, and with 50 years as a technician I know plenty of people who were overpaid for what little they did on the job. Longevity on the job buys a certain amount of job security, no matter how little you are actually worth on the job. Then these dolts complain if the more competent new hire gets as much as they get. It isn't fair, but it exists.

So? There are also lazy, immoral people like paris Hilton that get everything they want without putting forth any effort because they are rich..

this isn;t about "pleasing everyone"..its about giving equal opportunity for everyone to fail or succeed based on their ability.. and NOT on the basis of their skin color. And until we recognize the WELL DOCUMENTED FACT that skin color DOES have a factor in todays US in that opportunity.. then we are not giving that opportunity.

You cannot ignore the evidence.. the mountain of evidence that shows that race is a factor in opportunity and then turn around and then claim that we are giving equal work for equal capabilities.

Sure.. there are people that use race as an excuse. I ran into that in school where as a white male, heterosexual, Methodist I was a minority. I was told how I was born with a silver spoon in my mouth because I was white.. and meanwhile the person saying it had parents who were RICH doctors while I was born poor/lower middle class..

Where a black girl whose parents had 11 children and only were able to send three to college.. and I pointed out that my family only had one child because its all they could afford to send to college.

Where black folks marched militantly claiming the government needed to pay for reparations for slavery. And I pointed out that the government that was in charge was the one that fought against slavery and it won. and it was families like mine that put their life on the line to fight in the south against slavery.. because they simply felt slavery was wrong. So now you demanded reparations from the very government that ended slavery and the families that shed blood to resolve that issue?

At the end of the day though.. that does not change the fact that being a minority in America puts you at a disadvantage compared to being white.

 

[faithful_servant]

Except you fail to recognize that the culture and neighborhood were and are to some extent today created by racism and discrimination. and that has lasting effects.

Whether your parents are college educated is a determiner of your likelihood of going to college and graduating.

So, if your grandfather was denied going to college because of the color of his skin.. his child is less likely to go to college, and his child is less likely to go to college.. so on and so forth.

Something outside the culture has to step up and make that difference.

NO!! Someone WITHIN the culture needs to step up and make that difference. That's the true heart of this issue - there is no unified voice calling "No one can keep me down except ME.".

 

[jaeger19]

Were not Guatemala....... the vast majority of people in this country remain poor because of poor choices

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Sir.. just to point out.. your posts are proving our points for us.

 

[jaeger19]

NO!! Someone WITHIN the culture needs to step up and make that difference. That's the true heart of this issue - there is no unified voice calling "No one can keep me down except ME.".

Sounds great.. so the culture that has an issue.. is somehow supposed to break the culture that has an issue.

By the way.. the reason that there is no unified voice calling "no one can keep me down except me".. is because for a minority it is a flat out lie.
.
Heck.. its a lie for a poor white kid as well. I know that. I certainly could not have gotten where I am today without a helping hand.

 

[UtahBill]

If you feel you kids are being negatively affected you are failing them as a parent. Period!! You admitted you are rich and that gives you more choices then some have at this point and don't take action you are a failure as a parent or are greatly exaggerating the problem. Again choices, if you put your children in that position you are at fault..

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Good point...don't we all ask the realtor where the best, or better, schools are when we move to a new area. Will everything be wonderful? Not likely, but the odds are better. That is putting them in a good position.
As for those schools who have not so great reputation? If a substantial number of the other kids are learning and getting good grades and going on to college, you can't be blaming the school. The information is being taught to all the kids the same, right?

 

[UtahBill]

Sounds great.. so the culture that has an issue.. is somehow supposed to break the culture that has an issue.

By the way.. the reason that there is no unified voice calling "no one can keep me down except me".. is because for a minority it is a flat out lie.
.
Heck.. its a lie for a poor white kid as well. I know that. I certainly could not have gotten where I am today without a helping hand.

My help was a rich uncle, my Uncle Sam....parents were believers in "18 and out" philosophy...

 

[Partsguy57]

Sir.. just to point out.. your posts are proving our points for us.

Good quite complaining about white privilege and pull your big boy pants up and go to work. No more excuses. Wise choices!

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[faithful_servant]

Sounds great.. so the culture that has an issue.. is somehow supposed to break the culture that has an issue.

By the way.. the reason that there is no unified voice calling "no one can keep me down except me".. is because for a minority it is a flat out lie.
.
Heck.. its a lie for a poor white kid as well. I know that. I certainly could not have gotten where I am today without a helping hand.

I got to where I am by my own effort and a tenacious desire to never live in the kind of poverty I grew up in. No one could have kept me down without physically preventing me from doing so and in this country, there is NOTHING that keep down anyone who truly wants to rise above their circumstances. But stupid crap like the ideas in the OP put the false idea in too many people's mind that they can't rise above their circumstances. It's become part of the "poverty culture" that keeps people poor by telling them that they can't rise above their poverty. We need voices that when they hear the kind of garbage in the OP, their response is "To hell with that! NO ONE keeps me down except ME!!!"

 

[Partsguy57]

I got to where I am by my own effort and a tenacious desire to never live in the kind of poverty I grew up in. No one could have kept me down without physically preventing me from doing so and in this country, there is NOTHING that keep down anyone who truly wants to rise above their circumstances. But stupid crap like the ideas in the OP put the false idea in too many people's mind that they can't rise above their circumstances. It's become part of the "poverty culture" that keeps people poor by telling them that they can't rise above their poverty. We need voices that when they hear the kind of garbage in the OP, their response is "To hell with that! NO ONE keeps me down except ME!!!"

Yep and many don't want to hear that because it directly relates to who they are why they are in the position they are in. Their own poor choices!!! Period!!

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[faithful_servant]

Yep and many don't want to hear that because it directly relates to who they are why they are in the position they are in. Their own poor choices!!! Period!!

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Not so much why they are in the position they are in, but rather why they are staying in that position. You can be born into poverty, but no one can make you stay there if you choose not to.

 

[Cable]

I can't believe the liberals have retreated without ever explaining how the phrase "White Privilege" helps anyone. ... Oh well, another day....

 

[jaeger19]

Good quite complaining about white privilege and pull your big boy pants up and go to work. No more excuses. Wise choices!

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Dude.. been there done that. For more successful than you are. and a lot more knowledgeable on the subject.

that's the problem with guys like you and your ego.. you don't even realize that advantages that you were given. Wait.. you are going to tell us how you were so poor but worked your way up to owning a parts store.

and you think you "did it through good choices"..

and that public education you got didn;t help. Or the owner of the parts store that took you under his wing.. or the bank that gave you the loan to buy into it.. or a myriad of other ways you were given help.

 

[jaeger19]

I can't believe the liberals have retreated without ever explaining how the phrase "White Privilege" helps anyone. ... Oh well, another day....

That's because the conservative just did an excellent job of explaining why it helps.

 

[UtahBill]

I got to where I am by my own effort and a tenacious desire to never live in the kind of poverty I grew up in. No one could have kept me down without physically preventing me from doing so and in this country, there is NOTHING that keep down anyone who truly wants to rise above their circumstances. But stupid crap like the ideas in the OP put the false idea in too many people's mind that they can't rise above their circumstances. It's become part of the "poverty culture" that keeps people poor by telling them that they can't rise above their poverty. We need voices that when they hear the kind of garbage in the OP, their response is "To hell with that! NO ONE keeps me down except ME!!!"

Amen to that...
I have worked with engineers of all minorities common to the USA, and most of them had to struggle within the system or culture at the time. The word privileged applies to only a small percentage of us. Being wronged in some way will apply to nearly all of us at some time in our lives. The best revenge is to live well, so they say. I certainly do.
And to help others, I donate to a "Perpetual Education Fund" that helps people all over the world attend college in their own countries. Education is the most likely way to succeed, those who refuse their opportunities now will regret it later.

 

[jaeger19]

I got to where I am by my own effort and a tenacious desire to never live in the kind of poverty I grew up in. No one could have kept me down without physically preventing me from doing so and in this country, there is NOTHING that keep down anyone who truly wants to rise above their circumstances. But stupid crap like the ideas in the OP put the false idea in too many people's mind that they can't rise above their circumstances. It's become part of the "poverty culture" that keeps people poor by telling them that they can't rise above their poverty. We need voices that when they hear the kind of garbage in the OP, their response is "To hell with that! NO ONE keeps me down except ME!!!"

Yeah.. that's most likely completely BS unless you were some star athlete. And even then...

did you have public education ? If you were born poor.. that means your parents didn;t pay your way.. some wealthier family paid the taxes that supported some of your education...

and then someone gave you a job. Took a chance on you. No experience etc... because if you were poor.. you likely didn;t start off self employed.

Right there are two large opportunities for someone to stop your success..regardless of how good your choices or how hard you worked.

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

It's as I said. Speaking of individuals, of course whites can be just as poor as blacks, but blacks as a whole in America have 1/16th the wealth and unlike "partsguy" here it's not because they're lazy or subhuman. There are socioeconomic and historical factors and pretending everyone has exactly the same level of opportunity has no connection to reality.

Then by your own admission, it seems you agree that the walls are the same height, it's just the pit is larger in diameter as a percentage of the black population. In absolute magnitude, the pit for white people is still much larger, there are just more white people on the outside of it as well.

 

[jaeger19]

My help was a rich uncle, my Uncle Sam....parents were believers in "18 and out" philosophy...

and there you go. ...

 

[Gonzo Rodeo]

But the operating premise is that poverty represents an almost inescapable obstacle, and that poverty is over-represented in black communities.

OK, sure, I'll agree to this.



Seems obviously false--I'm not sure why anyone would believe this. Poverty is clearly worse for some people than for others.



The sociological premise seems almost obviously correct.



Why can it not be both? We know of all kinds of processes where an effect exacerbates a cause, leading to worse effects, which lead to even more of the cause, and so on. It's called a feedback loop.



No--I see no reason to believe that. That's like saying that disease should affect all people equally, and thus someone who has cancer should be just as productive as someone who has a cold. Absurd.

You seem to be missing the forest for the trees. If poverty is the reason for continued poverty, then how does that strike individual black people differently than individual white people?

It doesnt.

Now, statistically speaking, there are more poor black people as a percentage of the black population. But there is nothing in those statistics that says it is harder to escape poverty if your skin is black. That is where the knapsack comes in, and it is full of excuses pointing to psychological factors that encourage people to make further bad choices in addition to the bad choices already available and encouraged to those in poverty.

 

[Bodi]

You're missing the point. This isn't a micro thing, it's a macro thing. Any given white person could easily be far poorer or have less social mobility than any given black person. However, after 200+ years of whites as a whole absorbing wealth and repressing blacks as a whole, the per capita wealth of blacks is dramatically less than it is for whites.

This isn't any individual's fault, just a historic reality. Wealth is passed down along the generations and blacks have had less wealth to pass down. Regardless of your race, having dirt poor or uneducated parents will echo down through multiple generations. Couple that with the fact that schools in black neighborhoods are statistically underfunded compared to white neighborhoods, there absolutely is an effect. When you take everything into account blacks as a whole have less wealth and opportunity than whites as a whole.



By the way that you would actually say something this ridiculously stupid shows you've never opened a history book in your life. This, what you're experiencing as a white person right now, is the worst and most extreme case of racism mankind has ever seen?

It is an economic issue... not a white or black issue. For hundreds of years dirt poor inbred trailer trash white people have not passed down money to their kids and more than slave black people did. More white people have means than blacks but that is because of economics... not color. Add in Asians, Mexicans, white immigrant Europeans...

 

[Partsguy57]

Dude.. been there done that. For more successful than you are. and a lot more knowledgeable on the subject.

that's the problem with guys like you and your ego.. you don't even realize that advantages that you were given. Wait.. you are going to tell us how you were so poor but worked your way up to owning a parts store.

and you think you "did it through good choices"..

and that public education you got didn;t help. Or the owner of the parts store that took you under his wing.. or the bank that gave you the loan to buy into it.. or a myriad of other ways you were given help.

Lol wrong on nearly all aspects!! I'm not going to get in a pissing match on who did what better as I don't know you. I can assure you I have done very well from nothing and if you did the same my hat is off to you and if you have done better then me great. I never envy those that have done better and admire them only. You may or may not have had help but I can assure you that ultimately your success was based on you!!! And what you did with that help! Again wise choices. I can also assure you that you would have done just fine with no " help" now if you were given a pile of money that may not have been you, but how you chose to manage it, grow it etc is again on you!! The world is full of people that had large sums of money " given" them and ended up in the poor house, again their own fault.. choices.

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[Bodi]

Actually, that does not follow. You're confusing predicate quantifiers. That a did P means that doing P is possible in a broadly logical sense. However, that P is possible in the broadly logical sense, or that a has done P, does not mean that b can do P. (note: a and b are to be read here as names, not particles).

Way to complicate a simple issue. Both a and b have the same physical and mental attributes, more or less. They can both study. They can both learn. They can both better themselves.