White House releases memo of Trump-Ukraine call

[TU Curmudgeon]

Again......even if he did do this....the President is fully within his authority to do so......

I guess that you missed the fact that the UK High Court has exercised the court's inherent jurisdiction to strike down actions that, although technically NOT illegal, (to paraphrase the judgment) "simply were NOT on, old chap".

Did you know that American courts have the same inherent jurisdiction?

 

[roguenuke]

Nonsense. Pure democrat delusional poppycock. Trump's lawyer does not have to answer to Nadler or to any of his corrupt partisan comrades in the House.

Tell that to his other lawyer. Where did that defense get him?

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[digitusmedius]

He made them fire the prosecutor or they would not get a Billion dollars of taxpayer money.

Non-lie version of that comment:

"He", along with the UK and many EU countries <del>made them</del> pressured the new Ukrainian government fire the corrupt prosecutor* or they would not get a Billion dollars of taxpayer as well as EU money.

*who, by the way, was impeding the UK in its investigation of the CEO of Burisma rather than the lie being spread that he was going after Biden's son who was never a part of the allegations of wrongdoing by that CEO. In fact, Hunter Biden had not even joined the board of that company when that investigation began.

IOW, Biden along with a number of our allies were working together to get corruption out of the Ukrainian government in order to get military and financial aid. Far from there being nothing wrong with that it was exactly the right thing both ethically and financially thing to do. So, no wonder you can't grasp it.

 

[digitusmedius]

So much wrong with this post. Just not going to bother.

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He's been spewing this crap all day and there will be no end to it no matter how often the lies get slapped down. It is that Maher calls the "Real Trump Derangement Syndrome."

 

[ClaraD]

Again......even if he did do this....the President is fully within his authority to do so......

No, it's not within his authority to extort a foreign government to get dirt on his opponent

 

[digitusmedius]

If they lie so much how come his account of Trumps phone call with Zelensky was spot on?

View attachment 67264834

 

[digitusmedius]

No, it's not within his authority to extort a foreign government to get dirt on his opponent

That we have to keep repeating this to the trumphumpers tells us everything about their total disregard for law and the Constitution not to mention just plain simple morality and decency. The entry for hypocrisy in the dictionary should include "see also: MAGA"

 

[ClaraD]

He made them fire the prosecutor or they would not get a Billion dollars of taxpayer money.

He didn't do anything, the entire EU and the Obama administration had him fired for NOT investigating Burisma

 

[rockabillylaker]

It's only extortion if Zelensky KNEW he was being extorted. There was no discussion of consequence whatsoever between he and Trump

 

[digitusmedius]

The so-called whistleblower did not even hear the conversation so everything he said was hearsay and inadmissible in court. .

When you people try to play lawyer, hilarity will always follow. Hearsay can, indeed, be admitted as evidence in court under certain conditions (which happen to apply in this case):

Hearsay is an out-of-court statement being offered to prove the truth of the matter asserted. The Federal Rules of Evidence prohibit introducing hearsay statements during applicable federal court proceedings, unless one of nearly thirty exemptions or exceptions applies.[1]

Here's the full reference for that excerpt although I know it's like throwing seed onto barren ground:
Hearsay in United States law - Wikipedia

 

[CharisRose]

Prove that he violated our laws. Post the law and the evidence that he violated that ssf specific law.

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According to the political Democratic/Socialist way of doing things these days via using the court of Public Opinion to accuse their opposition of wrong doing...

Shouldn't Biden be expected to do what Trump has been expected to do... prove his accusers... accusations are falsehoods.

Perhaps, Biden should have followed Trump's example and asked for a favor>>> instead of using the "denial of monetary aid" tactic with the deadline time frame to provide an answer or else.

“To the Senate of the United States: With a view to receiving the advice and consent of the Senate to ratification, I transmit herewith the Treaty Between the United States of America and Ukraine on Mutual Legal Assistance in Criminal Matters with Annex, signed at Kiev on July 22, 1998. I transmit also, for the information of the Senate, an exchange of notes which was signed on September 30, 1999, which provides for its provisional application, as well as the report of the Department of State with respect to the Treaty. The Treaty is one of a series of modern mutual legal assistance treaties being negotiated by the United States in order to counter criminal activities more effectively. The Treaty should be an effective tool to assist in the prosecution of a wide variety of crimes, including drug trafficking offenses. The Treaty is self-executing. It provides for a broad range of cooperation in criminal matters. Mutual assistance available under the Treaty includes: taking of testimony or statements of persons; providing documents, records, and articles of evidence; serving documents; locating or identifying persons; transferring persons in custody for testimony or other purposes; executing requests for searches and seizures; assisting in proceedings related to restraint, confiscation, forfeiture of assets, restitution, and collection of fines; and any other form of assistance not prohibited by the laws of the requested state. I recommend that the Senate give early and favorable consideration to the Treaty and give its advice and consent to ratification.”

WILLIAM J. CLINTON.

https://www.congress.gov/106/cdoc/tdoc16/CDOC-106tdoc16.pdf

Legal basis of Ukraine and USA - Embassy of Ukraine in the United States of America

Treaty between U.S. and Ukraine on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters

Exchange of notes concerning provisional application of the Treaty between Ukraine and United States of America on mutual legal assistance in criminal matters

Signed: 30.09.99 Entered into force: 30.09.00

My 2cents added to the debate,

Roseann

 

[TheRepublican]

Yes, you are deflecting from the situation and, let me explain how you are doing this. Let’s use Eric trump for the example if Eric Trump did the exact same thing as hunter who is not innocent then, that will not sit well with the emotional leftist democrats. But, who cares if the president asked about this. But all of sudden you are basically saying what can a president who is favorable obviously can do with executive privilege but yet, this little nitwit who filed a whistleblower against this president because he asked a foreign person for information? Moreover, I would ask if we should have a double standard on executive privilege because obviously there is. In fact I can say that we should uphold everyone equally but, this doesn’t apply to everyone. Let’s reopen fast and furious but this would be another impeachment inquiry.

 

[maxparrish]

Huh? You are spinning so fast you must be dizzy. Nothing you wrote is correct. Lutsenco did indeed investigate Burisma and closed the investigation in 2017 All reports say the he did a fine job as prosecutor. You need to read this carefully this time.....I don't have a clue where you got that "story" or did you make it up all by yourself?

Hunter Biden '''did not violate anything,''' former Ukrainian prosecutor says

It's a wonder that the Biden axis insisted that when Skokin was reputedly handwaving away the corruption in Burisma Holdings that was "proof" that Skokin was protecting Burisma and needed to be fired, but when Lutsenco did the same handwaving of the same targets...in particular that of Hunter Biden...it is no longer an outrage. How "convenient" (and horribly gullible to believe it).

If you can't see the hypocritical absurdity in that then your motivated cognition makes you immune to seeing what appears to b inexplicable contradictions.

Joe Biden's 2020 Ukrainian nightmare: A closed probe is revived | TheHill

Most of the general prosecutor’s investigative work on Burisma focused on three separate cases, and most stopped abruptly once Shokin was fired. The most prominent of the Burisma cases was transferred to a different Ukrainian agency, closely aligned with the U.S. Embassy in Kiev, known as the National Anti-Corruption Bureau of Ukraine (NABU), according to the case file and current General Prosecutor Yuriy Lutsenko. NABU closed that case, and a second case involving alleged improper money transfers in London was dropped when Ukrainian officials failed to file the necessary documents by the required deadline. (Although) the general prosecutor’s office successfully secured a multimillion-dollar judgment in a tax evasion case, Lutsenko said. He did not say who was the actual defendant in that case.

IN OTHER WORDS, Lutsenko effectively did what Skokin was accused of but because he came out and specifically protected Hunter Biden, we are supposed to support this Ukrainian prosecutor? Tell us why the blandishments of a legal system that Biden himself said was corrupt ought to be believed at face value? Tell us why this prosecutor does not feel pressured and shifted by the same conflicting political forces to please the both sides in America which control their financial and military aide to his country? After all, Lutsenko is the same fellow who hand-waved away his tepid handling of Burisma ALSO reopened the investigations in 2018 - implicating more to the story not heard.

Finally, you ignore that the ONLY way to make sense of this story is that Skokin had finally opened a serious investigation of Burisma, Biden wanted his son protected and so he got Skokin fired, and as long as Lutsenko played ball by keeping Hunter out of it, then Lutsenko's own protection of Burisma to be ignored by the American left. And it has been so.

So yes, there is plenty of reason not to take the word of a replacement prosecutor who essentially did for Burisma what his predecessor was accused and fired for doing, not without full disclosure and a robust investigation on both sides of the Atlantic - especially so in light of Solomon's recent investigative findings published yesterday.

 

[Trump]

It's a wonder that the Biden axis insisted that when Skokin was reputedly handwaving away the corruption in Burisma Holdings that was "proof" that Skokin was protecting Burisma and needed to be fired, but when Lutsenco did the same handwaving of the same targets...in particular that of Hunter Biden...it is no longer an outrage. How "convenient" (and horribly gullible to believe it).

If you can't see the hypocritical absurdity in that then your motivated cognition makes you immune to seeing what appears to b inexplicable contradictions.



IN OTHER WORDS, Lutsenko effectively did what Skokin was accused of but because he protected Hunter Biden, we are supposed to support this Ukrainian prosecutor? Tell us why the blandishments of a legal system that Biden himself said was corrupt ought to be believed at face value? Tell us why this prosecutor does not feel pressured and shifted by the same conflicting political forces to please the both sides in America which control their financial and military aide to his country? After all, the same fellow who hand-waved away his tepid handling of Burisma ALSO reopened the investigations in 2018 - implicating more to the story not heard.

Finally, you ignore that the ONLY way to make sense of this story is that Skokin had finally opened a serious investigation of Burisma, Biden wanted his son protected and so he got Skokin fired, and as long as Lutsenko plays ball his own protection of Burisma will be ignored by the American left.

So yes, there is plenty of reason not to take the word of the more replacement prosecutor (who is no longer in charge) without full disclosure and a robust investigation on both sides of the Atlantic - especially so in light of Solomon's recent investigative findings published yesterday.

crazy Dems are listening to lying press coverage...if the press says it must be true...if court papers say otherwise it must be a lie....upside down logic...new democratic party:shrug:

 

[iguanaman]

It's a wonder that the Biden axis insisted that when Skokin was reputedly handwaving away the corruption in Burisma Holdings that was "proof" that Skokin was protecting Burisma and needed to be fired, but when Lutsenco did the same handwaving of the same targets...in particular that of Hunter Biden...it is no longer an outrage. How "convenient" (and horribly gullible to believe it).

If you can't see the hypocritical absurdity in that then your motivated cognition makes you immune to seeing what appears to b inexplicable contradictions.



IN OTHER WORDS, Lutsenko effectively did what Skokin was accused of but because he protected Hunter Biden, we are supposed to support this Ukrainian prosecutor? Tell us why the blandishments of a legal system that Biden himself said was corrupt ought to be believed at face value? Tell us why this prosecutor does not feel pressured and shifted by the same conflicting political forces to please the both sides in America which control their financial and military aide to his country? After all, the same fellow who hand-waved away his tepid handling of Burisma ALSO reopened the investigations in 2018 - implicating more to the story not heard.

Finally, you ignore that the ONLY way to make sense of this story is that Skokin had finally opened a serious investigation of Burisma, Biden wanted his son protected and so he got Skokin fired, and as long as Lutsenko played ball was Lutsenko's own protection of Burisma to be ignored by the American left.

So yes, there is plenty of reason not to take the word of a replacement prosecutor who essentially did what his predecessor did (who is no longer in charge) without full disclosure and a robust investigation on both sides of the Atlantic - especially so in light of Solomon's recent investigative findings published yesterday.

So you are taking the Kremlin line seriously and ignoring the Ukraine govt. as weak and corrupt. Is there anything else you would like done to undermine the duly elected Govt. of Ukraine besides call them liars until they "find" the "corruption" you just know is there?

For years, Ukrainian anti-corruption activists like Daria Kaleniuk looked to the United States for support in her country’s fight against graft and fake news. The Moscow-backed takeover of Crimea and eastern Ukraine was ground zero for Russian disinformation that spread across the world. Corruption was so pervasive in Ukraine that voters opted for a comedian with no political experience, Volodymyr Zelensky, who defeated the incumbent president by nearly 50 percent in elections last spring.

But the release of a July 25 memo detailing a conversation between U.S. President Donald Trump and Zelensky has, for many Ukrainians, turned the United States from a model of good governance and truth into a dispiriting example of the very kind of corruption and disinformation they are battling.

“We have faced intimidation and manipulation in Ukraine for quite a long time. Now this is happening at the highest possible level of the United States, where the personal lawyer of the president of the United States is carrying out speculation and manipulation,” said Kaleniuk, the executive director of Ukraine’s Anti-Corruption Action Center, a Kyiv-based watchdog group. “Usually the United States [was] the key [ally] of Ukrainian civil society to stop political pressure into law enforcement investigations. But I am reading the transcript where the president of the United States is doing the contrary than what we were encouraged to do.”

The chief beneficiary of this behavior will be the Kremlin, say Ukrainian activists and Western officials involved with Ukraine. They believe Trump is playing into the hands of Russian President Vladimir Putin, who has engaged in a yearslong disinformation war to portray the United States and European Union as weak as a way of laying claim to Crimea and political domination of Ukraine. Trump’s casual comment to Zelensky, during their meeting at the U.N. General Assembly gathering on Wednesday, that “I really hope that you and President Putin can get together and solve your problem” also reinforced the Kremlin line.

Ukraine Reacts: Trump’s Call Is Putin’s Victory – Foreign Policy

 

[marke]

Trump, Rudy, and the WH are admitting nearly EVERYTHING, in real-time, that the whistleblower is claiming.

But who am I to believe? You or my lying eyes?

Who cares what the whistleblower thinks? He is not God's emissary on earth to judge Trump and everyone in government. Trump is the president. Lowlife CIA spies may have opinions but damn their opinions if they stupidly think they have any right to force the president to live by their rules.

 

[marke]

Biden had no power to hold up aide, vice presidents do not have that authority

Exactly. He was bluffing because he was desperate to stop the Ukrainian investigation into the mob who was paying his son a king's ransom for being on board.

 

[marke]

He didn't have him fired over any investigation into his son. Yours and Trumps lying about it doesn't make it so. In fact, the prosecutor in question was fired for NOT investigating corruption

Oh the lies that liars tell which tangled them into their own webs of hell.

 

[Your Star]

Who cares what the whistleblower thinks? He is not God's emissary on earth to judge Trump and everyone in government. Trump is the president. Lowlife CIA spies may have opinions but damn their opinions if they stupidly think they have any right to force the president to live by their rules.

You mean the law? The Constitution?

My lord, we live in a simulation.

 

[marke]

Using it to investigate a political opponent is illegal

Biden is no opponent. He will not get the nomination. Democrats have determined in advance for years who gets the nomination and who doesn't. Biden may be the only deluded democrat cult member who is unaware of what the democrats are going to do to him in the upcoming primaries.

 

[marke]

No he's not

Yes he is, in spite of anti-American, unconstitutional, crooked democrat opinion to the contrary.

 

[marke]

So which specific leaks do you think should be classified as sedition or treason?

These are highly inflammatory comments you are making. Treason is punishable by the death penalty.

It is against the law to steal classified documents and secret presidential phone conversations and leak them to anti-American leftist opponents seeking to overthrow the elected government of the USA. It is against the law to simply steal and leak classified materials of any kind for any reason. This whistleblower and whoever put him up to this nonsense should be tried in court and sent to jail if found guilty of such seditious criminal behavior.

 

[marke]

Are you guys watching all the small government republicans who are okay with a US politician using US taxpayer money to bribe the leader of another country into digging up dirt for him against another US politician?

They must hate what our founders created.

Don't just believe the lying dummass democrat narrative. Define "Bribe" and show evidence to support your claim Trump bribed anyone, but do not use fake democrat documents or opinions or complaints as if those rags are reliable or truthful sources.

 

[marke]

You misspelled trump

No, you must have foolishly believed whatever lying leftist radical falsely claimed it was Trump who threatened to withhold 1.5 billion in US aid if the Ukraine prosecutor was not fired for investigating the mob which was making his son rich. That was not Trump, that was the crook Quid Pro Joe Biden.

 

[marke]

"I do solemnly swear that I will faithfully execute the Office of President of the United States, and will to the best of my ability, preserve, protect and defend the Constitution of the United States."

Amen! Trump promised to drain the swamp and he is doing it in spite of constantly being bitten by rabid lying criminal beastly democrats who do not want him to fulfil that promise.