• This is a political forum that is non-biased/non-partisan and treats every person's position on topics equally. This debate forum is not aligned to any political party. In today's politics, many ideas are split between and even within all the political parties. Often we find ourselves agreeing on one platform but some topics break our mold. We are here to discuss them in a civil political debate. If this is your first visit to our political forums, be sure to check out the RULES. Registering for debate politics is necessary before posting. Register today to participate - it's free!

White House: Border Wall Funding Doesn't Have To Be Tied To DACA Bill

cpwill said:
If we wanted to keep Obamacare, keep high taxes, keep unsustainable spending, not secure the border, and put DACA into law, why didn't we just vote for Hillary?
Click to expand...

Why are you blaming Trump because the GOP spent 7 years promising repeal and were too damn lazy and stupid to come up with a "replace" that nearly EVERYONE opposed - hell, they had insurers and providers and their own GOP governors opposed to the POS they spent years promising. Blame your own stupid party who KNEW they couldn't change the ACA significantly without making it much worse, and so made a bunch of promises they KNEW they couldn't keep. It's the incompetent GOP Congress that failed with ACA repeal.

Taxes are still on the table. Presumably the GOP will use reconciliation on this and won't need a single Democrat, and Trump will sign whatever the GOP can get through Congress.

And for the rest of it, the actual problem is the GOP cannot deliver on those things without Democrats, including raising the debt ceiling. So what exactly do you expect can get through Congress?
 
cpwill said:
Eh, he's governing as a childish narcissist. But he may have figured out that giving things to Democrats and acting like the moderate-Liberal he is gets him good press; if so, we'll see more of it.
Click to expand...

The other problem that you're correct about is he didn't run as a fiscal conservative and doesn't support that in general. He pledged to not cut a dime from Medicare, SS and Medicaid, universal healthcare, on big infrastructure projects, the Great Wall of Trump, expanding military spending, and $12 trillion in tax cuts. That's not a guy willing to take political hits to appease the deficit scolds in the GOP. And if the GOP can't get their crap together, and put legislation on his desk (F- so far), then I'm not sure what you can expect.

Just for example, if they want to use reconciliation on tax cuts and therefore cut the Dems out like they did with "repeal" then McConnell can't lose more than two senators, so the veto is held by the far right AND the far left of the GOP. Not easy to thread that needle and find something that is good enough for the most liberal and the most right wing Senators.
 
RabidAlpaca said:
Then you can push the blame onto the actual Trump voters and not try to make him a "liberal". What he is now is far more important than what he used to be.
Click to expand...

He's no different now than he ever was. The idea that he's changed is what's hysterical.

He's a lifelong NYC liberal.
 
holbritter said:
Where do you get he's "surrendering"?
Click to expand...

He is taking Democrat opening bids and saying "okay, we'll do that - it gets me great press". He's giving up on his objectives, and letting Democrats determine policy with no inputs from what he ran on or the GOP.


That's called "surrendering".
 
cpwill said:
Because he's the President and this is his damn job.
Click to expand...

No it's not. Getting a replace bill through the Senate is McConnell's damn job, and on the House side Ryan's damn job. Where did you learn civics?

You're reminding me of the Democrats back in 2009 who were big fans of the Green Lantern theory of politics, which is in short that the POTUS can do anything if he just tries hard enough. You've been making that assumption throughout this thread with no consideration at all to political realities.
 
Harshaw said:
He's no different now than he ever was. The idea that he's changed is what's hysterical.

He's a lifelong NYC liberal.
Click to expand...

Liberal implies an actual coherent worldview. What he's been all his life is a greedy narcissist who believes whatever it is that appears to best advance the narrow personal interests of DJT, and ONLY DJT, at that moment in time. In NYC which is socially liberal, then that means DJT was socially liberal, except when it wasn't advantageous for him, such as when he began running for POTUS, and then he moved on some issues. Etc...............
 
cpwill said:
Yeah, it is. Presidents are expected to lead. At the very least their party.
Click to expand...

You keep snipping my comments to ignore what you can't address, so I'll just repeat myself.

"Getting a replace bill through the Senate is McConnell's damn job, and on the House side Ryan's damn job."

If it's not McConnell's fault that for 8 years or so now he's been running around the country on repeal and replace, and cannot get his bill through a GOP Senate, based on his backroom negotiations, jam it through the Senate with not a single meaningful hearing, without getting a single powerful interest behind his POS bill that he brought up for a vote, then exactly when would you blame McConnell for his failure? At the end the Senate was so pathetic that the argument for the Senate "replace" was "promise - this bill will NOT become law!!!" Never seen anything like it - FAIL! And Trump just stood off to the side and let the supposed Washington pros handle this task...

As to the "expected to lead" stuff, that's a perfect illustration of Green Lantern theory. So thanks!
 
MaggieD said:
You just can't stand that he did the exact right thing, can you? Wow. You're looking rather foolish. Since you don't want the wall at all? Your criticism is hollow.
Click to expand...



Proposed by John McCain or Bernie Sanders you would not be terming in 'the right thing" but it's Trump so it is.
 
JasperL said:
Liberal implies an actual coherent worldview. What he's been all his life is a greedy narcissist who believes whatever it is that appears to best advance the narrow personal interests of DJT, and ONLY DJT, at that moment in time. In NYC which is socially liberal, then that means DJT was socially liberal, except when it wasn't advantageous for him, such as when he began running for POTUS, and then he moved on some issues. Etc...............
Click to expand...

Even if this is true, it's still a demonstrably better argument that he's a liberal than he is a conservative.
 
cpwill said:
Indeed. The now-abandoned Freedom Caucus (I suppose now they know how his contractors felt) and Paul Ryan I'd take a thousand times over him.

Because blaming them for his surrender is nonsense.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Really Will? Ryan wanted 18 months of unmitigated spending. You all for that too?


Sent from my SM-G950U using Tapatalk
 
cpwill said:
He is taking Democrat opening bids and saying "okay, we'll do that - it gets me great press". He's giving up on his objectives, and letting Democrats determine policy with no inputs from what he ran on or the GOP.


That's called "surrendering".
Click to expand...

I don't know why everyone keeps expecting him to do things like it's always been done. I kind of like that he's just making decisions without the months of "input" from everyone else.

And last I heard compromise with the other party was a good thing.

I don't think he ever wanted to eliminate DACA. He was after the illegal criminal part first, which he's doing. He's giving Congress the time to do something about DACA, kinda like input. He isn't giving up on the wall so I don't the big deal this time.
 
Redress said:
The point is, that is not what it would have taken. Democrats wanted a 3 month extension for max leverage, republicans wanted 18 months, putting it after the midterm so they could best avoid taking a position. 6 to 9 months would have been easy, could have been gotten in that very meeting without giving up anything. Instead, Trump, instead of negotiating, gave democrats their initial bid.
Click to expand...

6 to 9 months would have been easy? For who? The people waiting and needing it? They might disagree. They will probably be pretty happy that they weren't used as a "bargaining" chip.
 
As a hardline conservative I love what Trump is doing. The GOP has shown their incompetence on the repeal and replace of the ACA and they should be punished for it. Working with Dems to pass legislation is not only pragmatic but should also embarrass the GOP into getting their act together.


I believe this is what millions of Americans have been waiting years for. Compromise and bipartisanship to actually get things done. Haven't seen it since Reagan and Tip O'neal.
 
cpwill said:
He is taking Democrat opening bids and saying "okay, we'll do that - it gets me great press". He's giving up on his objectives, and letting Democrats determine policy with no inputs from what he ran on or the GOP.


That's called "surrendering".
Click to expand...


You seem to want the same old bickering and stalling on something as important and urgent as hurricane relief so we can score political points for other legislation. I guess seeing the halls of Congress filled with old men chanting "harrumph" while they stand firmly for their ideological purity is more important than giving up a little to get things done that need done.


I think the past couple decades has shown where that gets us.
 
dobieg said:
As a hardline conservative I love what Trump is doing. The GOP has shown their incompetence on the repeal and replace of the ACA and they should be punished for it. Working with Dems to pass legislation is not only pragmatic but should also embarrass the GOP into getting their act together.


I believe this is what millions of Americans have been waiting years for. Compromise and bipartisanship to actually get things done. Haven't seen it since Reagan and Tip O'neal.
Click to expand...
[emoji38] "As a Hardline Conservative, I love the complete inability to achieve any actual Conservative policies, brand-damaging chaos, Amnesty, and big Government Spending"



I don't think that word means what you think it means... ;)

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
dobieg said:
You seem to want the same old bickering and stalling on something as important and urgent as hurricane relief so we can score political points for other legislation. I guess seeing the halls of Congress filled with old men chanting "harrumph" while they stand firmly for their ideological purity is more important than giving up a little to get things done that need done.


I think the past couple decades has shown where that gets us.
Click to expand...
No, I want Conservative policy. Not a GOP President who prefers acting like a Democrat.

I'm willing to compromise to get it, too. Trump, however, isn't doing that. He's just giving Democrats what they want. We're still getting "ideological purity", the difference being that it's the liberal one.


Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
rocket88 said:
Storm legislation shouldn't be tied to anything. Trump's wall has zero to do with the storms.
Click to expand...
No one said it would be. He is giving the Dems AMNESTY in return for no-wall.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
MaggieD said:
So your post HAD nothing to do with those. I've already mea culpa'd tomCP for misreading his post. The point is that the relief funds should be tied to nothing.
Click to expand...
Except spending. The GOP wanted to raise the debt ceiling enough to get us through the next election season in order not to create an ending crises in a GOP owned government. Democrat's opening offer was a 3-month extension because they do want a crises for the GOP owned government. Both sides agreed on the disaster spending. Democrats just wanted to use it to hurt the GOP. Trump gave them their opening offer, apparently because they flattered him, he got good press when he folded on Amnesty.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
MaggieD said:
If "surrender" is what it took to get an immediate bill passed through both houses? Then I'm glad he "surrendered." And you should be, too.
Click to expand...
It wasn't. Both sides had already agreed on the disaster spending. He just did it.

Sent from my XT1526 using Tapatalk
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Interesting indeed but we knew Trump was not much good at the art of herding republicant congress critters. I suspect that Trump sees congress critters simply as a numbers game and has noticed that the demorats tend to vote together more than the republicants do - especially as of late. Among congress critters, you can make the number 51 with all of the demorats and only a few of the republicants as, if not more, easily than you can make the number 51 using only republicants.
Click to expand...

Name 100 Republicans in Congress who support his agenda. I guarantee you will fail. He been sabotaged from Day One by Paul Ryan and the Establishment.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.
Back
Top Bottom