What Would a "Democratic Socialist" United States look like?

[Jredbaron96]

So my question to this is; how did the worker/owners come to own the factory? Did they buy it from the original owners?

The factory would be set up either by the state or the workers themselves.

 

[VanceMack]

Modern social democracies all have capitalist economies. Many of the people in the top 100 wealthiest people in the world are from those countries. I think the founder of IKEA, from Sweden, is in the top 10. The only difference is they have social safety nets, and don't believe social Darwinism and the "natural freedom" of the jungle, where the strong get to eat the weak and vulnerable for lunch, is a proper way to run modern civil societies.

Countries like Norway have had the luxury of vast natural resources and a wholly homogeneous society where the natural resource industry alone could carry their entire economy. Even those countries are already in decline, already experience economic woes, having to scale back social services or to borrow from those natural resource funds to fill the ever widening gaps.

Socialism fails...always. But you ARE correct...one of the blessings of capitalism is that through a combination of charitable contributions and government programs, capitalism manages to carry those that CANNOT carry themselves. The problem is not those that cannot provide for themselves ina social safety net...the problem is those that WILL not. They overburden and overtax a system to the point of bust...even in a capitalist economy.

 

[Jredbaron96]

Let us know when it happens for you.

Your retorts are as second rate as your understanding of socio-economic theories.

 

[AGENT J]

I have a fairly good understanding of the basic concept of 'Socialism' as created by Karl Marx.

And the basic ideas and goals of Adolf Hitler and his Nazi Party, made 'National Socialism' forever infamous.

And the horrors associated with the Communist branch of Socialism has been well documented by such examples as the totalitarian regimes of the USSR and Red China.

So; considering the dark history of "Socialism" can anybody explain what makes "Democratic Socialism" different?

And; what would the United States look like if the 2020 election resulted in a total Democratic Socialist government?

Whats the democratic socialist party?
Who is in it?
Whos pushing for it and what are they pushing for?
opcorn2:

 

[ataraxia]

But you ARE correct...one of the blessings of capitalism is that through a combination of charitable contributions and government programs, capitalism manages to carry those that CANNOT carry themselves. The problem is not those that cannot provide for themselves ina social safety net...

That's actually what social democracy is all about.

the problem is those that WILL not. They overburden and overtax a system to the point of bust...even in a capitalist economy.

The stories you hear about that are actually greatly over-exaggerated. And even in situations of intractable poverty, there are reasons for it: ones which can be understood and addressed in a society which has a government willing to help its citizens.

I you are really interested in understanding the spirals and pathology of poverty and how it works, turn off Fox News and start here:
A Framework for Understanding Poverty 4th Edition: Ruby K. Payne: 9781929229482: Amazon.com: Books

You don't just give up on people and watch them die on the street to teach them a lesson. This is no longer acceptable in the modern world.

 

[Deuce]

Your retorts are as second rate as your understanding of socio-economic theories.

This might be the whitest insult in human history. Are you also British by any chance?

 

[Empirica]

IF you focus on Democratic Socialist rather than Government BY the people FOR the People and OF the people then you will miss the point of whether we have a Government controlled by the "VERY" few wealthiest Americans or a Government that promotes and insures that ALL AmeriCANs are represented equally and fairly by their government. IMHO right now the needs and desires of the few most wealthy individuals are unfairly represented at the exclusion and detriment of the needs of the many AmeriCANs. You can promote the needs of the few as "CAPITALISM" or the needs of the many as "SOCIALISM" but in the end we are all AmeriCANs and what's best for ALL of us is what's best for ANY of us.

There are literally millions of immigrants from every race, religion, ethnicity and continent that made great sacrifices getting to America; known throughout the world as The American Dream and land of opportunity.

And if they were polled to find out how many would choose to return home; guess what the percentage would reveal?

Everything you've written here is outright lies that have been pushed on you, which you now in turn pass onto others.

And everything I've told you here is the cold hard facts of reality...The proof is in the pudding. (meaning easy to see)

A GREAT America is an America that makes the MOST AmeriCANs ... GREAT!!

And no place is better than America at making this happen...

The only thing holding the U.S. Back is the division between US.

The only "division between us" are the artificial types created by Democrat Politicians to stir up the minority vote.

And one of the most successful "dividers" was none other than Barack Hussein Obama.

For crisakes; stop being such a gullible sucker to the far-left's political strategies...Seriously!

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

The Left tries over and over to control language. They redefine words, make up new words, give words a totally different meaning, tell you what words you can't say and compel you to say words you don't want to.

Really?

Attempt 25256 to get a conservative to define socialism:

What is socialism?

 

[VanceMack]

That's actually what social democracy is all about.




The stories you hear about that are actually greatly over-exaggerated. And even in situations of intractable poverty, there are reasons for it: ones which can be understood and addressed in a society which has a government willing to help its citizens.

I you are really interested in understanding the spirals and pathology of poverty and how it works, turn off Fox News and start here:
A Framework for Understanding Poverty 4th Edition: Ruby K. Payne: 9781929229482: Amazon.com: Books

You don't just give up on people and watch them die on the street to teach them a lesson. This is no longer acceptable in the modern world.

No...thats what leeching is all about. "Social Democracy" is the segment of the political takers that claim benevolence while stealing from others and creating a dependent society with the government being the 'good guys'...

 

[Empirica]

The factory would be set up either by the state or the workers themselves.

So my question to this is; how did the "state or the workers" come by the capital to finance this factory?

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

Countries like Norway have had the luxury of vast natural resources and a wholly homogeneous society where the natural resource industry alone could carry their entire economy. Even those countries are already in decline, already experience economic woes, having to scale back social services or to borrow from those natural resource funds to fill the ever widening gaps.

Socialism fails...always. But you ARE correct...one of the blessings of capitalism is that through a combination of charitable contributions and government programs, capitalism manages to carry those that CANNOT carry themselves. The problem is not those that cannot provide for themselves ina social safety net...the problem is those that WILL not. They overburden and overtax a system to the point of bust...even in a capitalist economy.

Your problem is you don't have a definition of socialism. So, your statement is meaningless. The most basic rule of debate is define your terms.

Those countries just have more social programs than we do. Of course, every country has to properly manage their budgets and social programs.

It makes more sense to accept that there is an ideal balance between social programs and private industry that each country must find and this balance changes with circumstances. A safety net as extensive as Denmark probably would not work in the U.S. but I'm sure universal health care would work.

That's pragmatism instead of your ideology.

 

[Jredbaron96]

So my question to this is; how did the "state or the workers" come by the capital to finance this factory?

Accumulation of capital is the inevitable result of any productive economic endeavor.

But Marx expected socialism to rise out of capitalist states, so most likely the factory would've already been established.

 

[Deuce]

So my question to this is; how did the "state or the workers" come by the capital to finance this factory?

Um. By... working... for money?

 

[ataraxia]

No...thats what leeching is all about. "Social Democracy" is the segment of the political takers that claim benevolence while stealing from others and creating a dependent society with the government being the 'good guys'...

Are you one of those "Stop socialized medicine and keep government's hands off my Medicare!" crowd? :lamo

If you feel so strongly about this, I say you convince the Trump voters to stop their Medicare coverage first and show us how it's done.

 

[ataraxia]

There are no pure capitalist countries in the world today. The US gave up on that over a century ago.

It's not because they are all too stupid to see the benefits of capitalism.

 

[Irwin Corey]

There are literally millions of immigrants from every race, religion, ethnicity and continent that made great sacrifices getting to America; known throughout the world as The American Dream and land of opportunity.

Yep; my family came from Italy at the beginning of the last century.

And if they were polled to find out how many would choose to return home; guess what the percentage would reveal?

What?

Everything you've written here is outright lies

Really?

Government BY the people FOR the People and OF the people

OR

a Government controlled by the "VERY" few wealthiest Americans or a Government that promotes and insures that ALL AmeriCANs are represented equally and fairly by their government.

Are those outright lies?

(meaning easy to see)[/I]

What cold hard facts have you told me that are so easy to see and contradict what I have said?

"division between us"[/I] are the artificial types created by Democrat Politicians to stir up the minority vote.

So you already had your mind made up before you created this thread?

"dividers"[/I] was none other than Barack Hussein Obama.

Really, what specifically did he do to divide "US"?

For crisakes;[/I] stop being such a gullible sucker to the far-left's political strategies...Seriously!

OK, … but … what are those "strategies"?

I think your response shows you had no intention of "discovering" any new truth about our society … you already had your mind made up. -sad

 

[SonOfDaedalus]

The only "division between us" are the artificial types created by Democrat Politicians to stir up the minority vote.

And one of the most successful "dividers" was none other than Barack Hussein Obama.

For crisakes; stop being such a gullible sucker to the far-left's political strategies...Seriously!

Here is the problem with this idea that Democrats just "stir up" the minority vote. Racist hate groups are incredibly excited about Trump. They must be responding to something he's saying. It's only natural that minorities would vote in the opposite direction of racist hate groups.



The reality is racists are part of the conservative coalition. There aren't just two sides in any country. There are countless groups that form the left and right. Part of the right are these racist hate groups. The Democrat party embraced the Civil Rights Act and desegregation and lost the South. The Republican party accepted all these displaced racists in their Southern strategy.

You need to learn to be more objective and pragmatic. Regarding this topic, you need to at least be able to give a coherent definition of socialism.

What is socialism? Name me some socialist countries and countries that are not socialist and explain why you've categorized them that way?

I'm confident that you cannot give me a coherent definition. Your arguments depend on muddled and confused definitions. You claim intellectual superiority to leftists but you can't even give a coherent definition regarding an issue you're very passionate about.

 

[Sweden]

But? Do non-SD parties really have the power to unravel the deeply entrenched socialist power structure in Europe?

I didn't know Socialist would so easily cede power...Don't they have strategically placed barriers to protect their utopia?

Just look at the previous US election...The Democrats believed they were solidly entrenched after the Obama Presidency and even insured with the rigged system put together by his "Deep State" appointees.

Not to mention their ever-loyal Main Stream Media that promoted their lies and covered up their crimes while viciously attacking their political opponents; all of which continues to this very day.

After all this and despite their political rejection by US Voters, (according to results of a 100% legal election) here they are nineteen months later, still throwing a world-class tantrum!

Ooups; another one of my tangents...sorry Swede~ :giggle1:

If non-socialists win elections they can unravel socialism - if they have the will power. Think Thatcher.

 

[LowDown]

The only reason would be that we are racist. That's something that is within our own power to fix. It's a problem only if we let it.

Here we go with the New Soviet Man style rhetoric.

No, it is not in our power to change human nature.

 

[Empirica]

What do you want? The Customer is Always Right!

Of course not...

I want an actual depiction of what you expect your "Democratic Socialist America" to look like...That's all!

I believe the depictions will vary as do most people's expectations of government and societal responsibilities.

People's depictions will of course vary from left to right and even among those of similar ideo-political beliefs.

Just imagine; if enough people would simply take the time to honestly depict their personal vision of a Democratic Socialist America, a few of us might possibly find enlightenment with which to ease our fears...or confirm them; anything is possible when honesty&truth are added to the mix.

If nothing else; us deplorables will know what to expect if you guys win the war and your DSA becomes reality.

 

[yankintx]

Socialism, democratic socialism, yada yada, same crap.

It's like Democrat, liberal, progressive, they are all leftists.

I would rather be a leftist than a Putin ass kisser, pucker up Righties !!

 

[danielpalos]

Of course not...

I want an actual depiction of what you expect your "Democratic Socialist America" to look like...That's all!

I believe the depictions will vary as do most people's expectations of government and societal responsibilities.

People's depictions will of course vary from left to right and even among those of similar ideo-political beliefs.

Just imagine; if enough people would simply take the time to honestly depict their personal vision of a Democratic Socialist America, a few of us might possibly find enlightenment with which to ease our fears...or confirm them; anything is possible when honesty&truth are added to the mix.

If nothing else; us deplorables will know what to expect if you guys win the war and your DSA becomes reality.

Some on the left are advocating for improving the efficiency of our economy, to lower our tax burden.

 

[Empirica]

If non-socialists win elections they can unravel socialism - if they have the will power. Think Thatcher.

But when I think "Thatcher"; I think 'temporary'...

And much the same with 'Brexit'; I still think 'temporary'...

Socialism is like a recurring pandemic with no known cure or vaccine!

Humanity's only defense has been containment where it invariably burns itself out.

Unfortunately; before burning itself out, it destroys the lives of everyone it hasn't murdered.

But a segment of society never learns so it inevitably pops up again, and again, and etc-etc-etc!

 

[Empirica]

Some on the left are advocating for improving the efficiency of our economy, to lower our tax burden.

This is likely the "Bluedog" or "Kennedy" branch of the Democrat Party.

I can't imagine this group still being large enough to be politically successful.

And they are definitely no longer represented by the new Progressive Democrat Party.

But I'm happy they're still around...Hopefully they can free the Democrat Party from the jaws of Socialism.

 

[danielpalos]

some of us try to resort to the fewest fallacies whenever necessary.