What we learned from Parkland-it's not good.

[cabse5]

Cops don't charge in by themselves to go pistol vs. AR-15, that's not how they have ever worked. Outgunned, you wait for backup. One guy going in by himself is going to get killed. There will be people trying to grab his attention to get help, wounded people begging for him to take them out of there, etc. A moment's distraction and the shooter gets the drop on him, he gets killed and saves nobody.

Teachers are not going to be more brave than this guy.

Which is why there needs to be more than one shooter at the school to take down the terrorist at the school.

Hopefully, it never gets to that point. Gun free school zone or no, this will happen again if the proper safeguards aren't implemented and followed through.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

So far the 'literally every major news outlet and the majority of minor ones every single day' have been calling for gun bans, and haven't even prevented detailed proposals for consideration, just a 'blank check' gun ban, which, if you consider the stringent gun regulations in Chicago, have already proven themselves as ineffective.

The one thing the media could actually do to reduce lone mental rampage shootings is to stop giving these individuals notoriety by showing their faces and names.

It was reported that a study of what drives these mental rampage shooters was the notoriety. Because of the Parkland shooting, numbers of schools have been on partial or full lock down this week due to similar threats, copy cats.

Do you think that every major news outlet and the majority of minor ones would consider reporting the incident without giving these individuals notoriety?

These news outlets really do slobber over these massacre ratings even tho they would never admit it. Its obvious the way they blare the horns for 2 weeks after instead of just keeping the news brief and concise. Its worse than lawyers who chase ambulance for easy money.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

The cops that entered the building were from another department: different policies, different SOP's, different leadership.

There need to be some serious questions asked of the sheriff and the county government about training objectives and SOP's.

**** the questions just fire them. They have obviously been padding eachothers pockets with easy pay and do not provide a real service. They let 2 reinforcement cops go in alone as the 4 of them still stood there cowering. Coward County Sheriffs! Whats their excuse for letting the 2 new guys that showed up going in alone? Actually I dont wanna hear it! Just fire um!

 

[apdst]

So now your going to blame cops refusing to do their job on the populace's response to abusive cops caught in the act? Pretty underhanded tactic there. So this guy isnt a coward because in the past cops have slammed an unarmed person into a wall? So because we are mad that some cops are shooting people as they run away that means that this cop gets to sit there collecting a 80,000$ paycheck + retirement pay as kids die?

I'm saying that could be a possibility. I'm also saying it's possible that those cops did exactly what they were trained to do.

These are questions that have to be asked. Because if those did do exactly what they were trained to do and complied with department policy, that's a problem and it needs to be exposed. If it turns out that the training for the Broward County sheriff's department never anticipated this scenario, that needs to be exposed.

Even the Coral Springs PD put out an official statement that basically say "uh, hey, hold up...we never said anything negative about the Broward County deputies on the scene."

Scott Israel has been trashing the NRA and demanding gun bans. That was before we found out four of his deputies didn't react offensively to the situation. He kinda looks like an asshole, now.

 

[cabse5]

These news outlets really do slobber over these massacre ratings even tho they would never admit it. Its obvious the way they blare the horns for 2 weeks after instead of just keeping the news brief and concise. Its worse than lawyers who chase ambulance for easy money.

They slobber over the massacre unless it's an immigrant doing the massacring.

 

[apdst]

**** the questions just fire them. They have obviously been padding eachothers pockets with easy pay and do not provide a real service. They let 2 reinforcement cops go in alone as the 4 of them still stood there cowering. Coward County Sheriffs! Whats their excuse for letting the 2 new guys that showed up going in alone? Actually I dont wanna hear it! Just fire um!

Noooooo, slow dow. If those deputies did what they were trained to do and complied with department policy, it isn't their fault.

If you just "fire'em" and the training objectives and department policy aren't changed, you're setting yourself up for a repeat of the exact same scenario.

 

[Maccabee]

Cops don't charge in by themselves to go pistol vs. AR-15, that's not how they have ever worked. Outgunned, you wait for backup. One guy going in by himself is going to get killed. There will be people trying to grab his attention to get help, wounded people begging for him to take them out of there, etc. A moment's distraction and the shooter gets the drop on him, he gets killed and saves nobody.

Teachers are not going to be more brave than this guy.

Nope. Modern doctrine is first on scene, first to engage. If all you have is a pistol then that's all you need. BTW, with the distances both the shooter and police were dealing with, the AR provided little advantage over a pistol.

 

[cabse5]

Noooooo, slow dow. If those deputies did what they were trained to do and complied with department policy, it isn't their fault.

If you just "fire'em" and the training objectives and department policy aren't changed, you're setting yourself up for a repeat of the exact same scenario.

So, fire the ones who make up the policy.

 

[Deuce]

So calling the cops AFTER the shooting has started is ok, but having actual security on site to prevent such shooting or end them before a dozen are slaughtered is a bad idea. Why?

Teachers aren't "actual security."

 

[apdst]

So, fire the ones who make up the policy.

Possibly.

 

[dirtpoorchris]

Noooooo, slow dow. If those deputies did what they were trained to do and complied with department policy, it isn't their fault.

If you just "fire'em" and the training objectives and department policy aren't changed, you're setting yourself up for a repeat of the exact same scenario.

I dont care if they want to blame it on training. There was 4 of them. Kids were dying. They did nothing. They do not deserve to get paid for protecting people. They failed.

I dotn care if their boss, God, Trump, their mom or Winnie the poo, or their training officer told/taught them to stand down. This isnt the same as waiting for backup on a traffic stop felony just to ensure maximum safety before anything happens. If a cop cares about his own life more than 100's of kids he needs to be honest and quit his job.

 

[Fledermaus]

His government union rules do not require that he put himself in danger just to save other peoples lives, he wears a gun to protect HIS life, not others.

He cannot be faulted or fired for protecting his own life first

He put the uniform on.

He chose the field.

One expects someone in the military or the police to "March TO the sound of the cannons", not away. To engage the threat. To make a difference. To make the situation better.

He did not do that.

IMO he failed as a police officer. He failed as a man.

 

[apdst]

I dont care if they want to blame it on training. There was 4 of them. Kids were dying. They did nothing. They do not deserve to get paid for protecting people. They failed.

I dotn care if their boss, God, Trump, their mom or Winnie the poo, or their training officer told/taught them to stand down. This isnt the same as waiting for backup on a traffic stop felony just to ensure maximum safety before anything happens. If a cop cares about his own life more than 100's of kids he needs to be honest and quit his job.

The training program and department policies must be critiqued. If those four deputies are outright fired, without doing so, you might be placing deputies responding to future situations in a position where out of fear of being fired, they insert themselves into a position that they aren't trained to handle, resulting in not just dead civilians, but dead deputies, too

 

[apdst]

He put the uniform on.

He chose the field.

One expects someone in the military or the police to "March TO the sound of the cannons", not away. To engage the threat. To make a difference. To make the situation better.

He did not do that.

IMO he failed as a police officer. He failed as a man.

In the military, they taught us what to do while running towards and once we got to the smoke and the fire.

The department may have failed them, by not giving him the adequate tools and knowledge to respond to an active shooter.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Cops don't charge in by themselves to go pistol vs. AR-15, that's not how they have ever worked. Outgunned, you wait for backup. One guy going in by himself is going to get killed. There will be people trying to grab his attention to get help, wounded people begging for him to take them out of there, etc. A moment's distraction and the shooter gets the drop on him, he gets killed and saves nobody.

Teachers are not going to be more brave than this guy.

The teachers were more brave than this guy.

 

[Acadia]

The teachers were more brave than this guy.

Yup. A teacher actually broke protocol and opened her door to let a bunch of kids in from the hallway. They were sitting ducks and she called an audible to save them.

 

[Skeptic Bob]

Yup. A teacher actually broke protocol and opened her door to let a bunch of kids in from the hallway. They were sitting ducks and she called an audible to save them.

Yep. And it isn’t that teachers are superhuman, though some may be. It is human nature. The average person is going to take more risks to protect those they know and care about than they would with some stranger. And if the person they know is a kid that impulse will be even stronger. It is an instinct prewired into our genetic makeup.

 

[polgara]

So far the 'literally every major news outlet and the majority of minor ones every single day' have been calling for gun bans, and haven't even prevented detailed proposals for consideration, just a 'blank check' gun ban, which, if you consider the stringent gun regulations in Chicago, have already proven themselves as ineffective.

The one thing the media could actually do to reduce lone mental rampage shootings is to stop giving these individuals notoriety by showing their faces and names.

It was reported that a study of what drives these mental rampage shooters was the notoriety. Because of the Parkland shooting, numbers of schools have been on partial or full lock down this week due to similar threats, copy cats.

Do you think that every major news outlet and the majority of minor ones would consider reporting the incident without giving these individuals notoriety?

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

One answer that comes to mind is that the public feels they have the right to know, and if it isn't forthcoming, including pictures, then we start hearing about possible conspiracies to shield the guilty! :roll: A "can't win" situation, IMO. Also, it's not going to sell newspapers if all they have to report is that "it was a ho-hum kind of day!"

Along the same lines, why do some drivers slow down to a snail's pace to gawk at the results of a bad auto accident, even when the police are motioning for them to keep moving! Humans are only human, and I understand that, but what explains that flaw in our species? :screwy

 

[eohrnberger]

Greetings, Erik. :2wave:

One answer that comes to mind is that the public feels they have the right to know, and if it isn't forthcoming, including pictures, then we start hearing about possible conspiracies to shield the guilty! :roll: A "can't win" situation, IMO. Also, it's not going to sell newspapers if all they have to report is that "it was a ho-hum kind of day!"

Along the same lines, why do some drivers slow down to a snail's pace to gawk at the results of a bad auto accident, even when the police are motioning for them to keep moving! Humans are only human, and I understand that, but what explains that flaw in our species? :screwy

Greetings, Polgara. :2wave:

A fine line between fulfilling the public's right to know and giving these shooters notoriety causing copy cats and more harm.
Surely some sort of balance can be struck that serves both purposes to the extent needed?

 

[mike2810]

He put the uniform on.

He chose the field.

One expects someone in the military or the police to "March TO the sound of the cannons", not away. To engage the threat. To make a difference. To make the situation better.

He did not do that.

IMO he failed as a police officer. He failed as a man.

I have to disagree with you at this point in time. Until the investigation is completed and hopefully made available to the public I will withhold judgement. I can agree that it "looks like" the Officer should have taken more action than he did. However, the LEO's safety is first priority.

I think it is wrong to compare LEO's to people in the military. For me its an apple/orange comparison. There are many good people in law enforcement who do risk their lives to protect and serve. News likes to grab headlines. Hopefully the investigation will shed some light.

 

[holbritter]

His government union rules do not require that he put himself in danger just to save other peoples lives, he wears a gun to protect HIS life, not others.

He cannot be faulted or fired for protecting his own life first

Bull****. That is one of the main points of being a law enforcer, to serve and PROTECT. The same that firemen and women are. You expect them not to put their lives in danger as well? That's ridiculous.

 

[Ray9]

Peterson and the others are going to suffer the public consequences of their inaction. But they are not the only ones who deserve to be held responsible for this tragedy. Scott Israel has some explaining to do as he was covering for their actions until the security footage was released. Then he threw them under the bus to get the attention off the incompetence of his department. We need to protect kids by hardening schools and electing officials that are serious about dealing with this issue instead of just collecting pensions and benefits.

 

[Fletch]

One would think that if their agenda was to save children and make our schools safer, as we hear we get lots of excuses why that and other suggestions just won't work or even make the kids less safe (ludicrous) They do have One thing they want done, ban guns, and there ya have it, they want everyone defenseless, think I will pass on that stupidity.

The CNN town hall told us all we need to know about liberals and their agenda. Its about banning guns, demonizing the NRA and gaining political power this fall. And that's it.

 

[Fletch]

Peterson and the others are going to suffer the public consequences of their inaction. But they are not the only ones who deserve to be held responsible for this tragedy. Scott Israel has some explaining to do as he was covering for their actions until the security footage was released. Then he threw them under the bus to get the attention off the incompetence of his department. We need to protect kids by hardening schools and electing officials that are serious about dealing with this issue instead of just collecting pensions and benefits.

Every level of government failed these kids: from the focal police, to the school board, to the deputies on duty all the way up to the FBI who admit the bungled this massively. And what is the liberal refrain in the wake of this massive governmental incompetence? More government. Of course.

To all you liberals who demand big government, the least you can do is also demand competence out of that government and not constantly excuse and apologize for its incompetence

 

[Fletch]

Teachers aren't "actual security."

They can be. Unless you think its impossible to coach football or teach history and handle a gun.