What to do about the mass shootings in the US

[Luther]

AK-47 is illegal for civilians to own in most cases.

You sure?

 

[truthatallcost]

Okay beerftw, let's just take a closer look at your 'research'. We'll go back a full two-decades in Japan's history, from 2001 to 2019.

In 2001, there was a school massacre which killed 8 people.

In 2001, there was a building fire, of unknown origin that killed 44 people. So they wouldn't count in your analogy. (no weapon)

Seven years later, in 2008, 7 people were murdered

In 2008, another theater fire that killed 16 people, the perpetrators name was never revealed for some reason. (no weapon)

Eight years later, in 2016, 19 people were stabbed to death

2017, arson fire killed 6 people. (no weapon)

2019, Three people stabbed to death

July 2019, another arson fire, 35 deaths, (no weapon)

That's a grand total of 37 people since the year 2001 that have been murdered in Japan by knife wielding attackers.
Aren't you even just a little bit embarrassed to bring this lame argument to me? In the same period of time, one decade, there have been 1.2 MILLION people murdered in the US with a firearm.

View attachment 67261133

Why can't we be more like Japan? Or Norway? Or Iceland?

 

[Winston]

You sure?

Automatic weapons are illegal

 

[Outlook]

You suggested asking god to send people to hell. I felt stopping them from killing in the first place sounded better.
Are you saying your response was a real solution? I thought you were joking...apparently not. My low opinion of your posts just got lower.

My suggestion of sending this scum to hell was not a response to any of your posts. It was a response to Elvira post 85 in which she talked about Jehovah Kingdom. You need to read before responding.
My solution is post 122.
What was your solution? Which post? Tell me how you plan on stopping someone like this nut case from killing. I’ll wait for your response.

 

[haymarket]

That seems very hurtful to our police officers and military personnel.

I am NOT talking about professional law enforcement people who must use guns as part of their job.

But then, I suspect you knew that.

 

[Luther]

Automatic weapons are illegal

They're not all Automatic. I would say the majority are simi - Auto


And I'm not so sure it is illegal to own a fully auto in some states with a permit?

But back to the AK- - 47 was invented in 1947

 

[truthatallcost]

What baloney, there are few countries more religious than the US (when it comes to Christianity). I live in a country where only 49% of the population is religious. How many massacres do we have a year here? None to virtually none. How many murders do we have? Very few compared to most other countries.

You know what we do not have? A gun culture, so lets not pretend that this does not have anything to do with guns. It does, it does however most likely have nothing to do with religion or the insane idea that people in the US instruct their children that there is no afterlife. Only 3% of Americans are atheists and only 4% are agnostics, the rest is religious. Sorry but your point of nonsense or the streets of the Netherlands would have turned into killing fields and guess what, they are not. Our lack or religion or not believing in the afterlife does not cause gun violence.

There are many components involved in the breakdown of American society, and yes, religion is one component. I don't care what works for a country of 17 million people, 90% of which are white. Its too late to pattern the USA after the Netherlands. Sorry Peter.

 

[haymarket]

Really? LOL

Really. There is no other path. Gun owners must be the modern lepers and outcasts of polite society like cigarette smokers.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Who said anything about proper? I simply pointed I that I said I would do something...intervene. You jumped to "have them committed". That's certainly an option as you point out, but it's not the only option, is the point. Intervention can be any number of things. Confronting them, having their family/friends confront them, meet with family/friends to discuss the issue and potentially options, if serious notify the authorities, if even more serious, potentially the FBI, if it's someone who shouldn't have a firearm, inform LE or their parents (if a a minor), etc. People have interventions all the time on drug abuse, and they don't need to have them committed to do it. The idea that we should "do nothing", just "let it happen", is fatalist, victim, pessimistic nonsense IMO.

OK, but "do something" is far too vague. As I said, "confrontation" can make things worse. This violent criminal appears to have gone over 650 miles from his home (in Allen, TX) to commit a mass shooting in El Paso, TX ultimately surrendering to police who never fired a shot at him. It is also unclear as to how he was able to keep shooting people at Walmart for 20 minutes when multiple police were at Walmart within 6 minutes of the initial 911 "active shooter" call - that 14 minutes surely allowed the victim count to rise.

 

[truthatallcost]

Really. There is no other path. Gun owners must be the modern lepers and outcasts of polite society like cigarette smokers.

Polite, unarmed society treating armed people like 'modern day lepers'. Oh boy, that should turn out well :lamo

 

[Mach]

Automatic weapons are illegal

Actually not all, but they are expensive and more difficult to obtain.

 

[Outlook]

Mass shootings make up a small sliver of murders in the US.

Mother Jones has collected a database of mass shootings in the US. In 2018, there was a total of 80 deaths from the mass shootins listed.
US Mass Shootings, 1982-2019: Data From Mother Jones’ Investigation – Mother Jones

In 2017, the FBI reported 17,284 homicides in the US.
FBI — Murder

The year 2018 actually reported a drop which means that the number is likely smaller than for 2017.
U.S. Murder Rate for 2018 Is on Track for a Big Drop - The New York Times

In other words, if you really want to persuade someone using logic on this issue to support increased gun legislation, you're best off not relying on mass shootings.

Good post.
800 a year are killed in Chicago alone, mostly black on black killings with illegal guns. What is the Governor of the state and the mayor of Chicago doing about it? Why isn’t the media reporting on this problem?
None of the democrat nominees addressed intercity problems during their Detroit debates.

 

[Mach]

OK, but "do something" is far too vague. As I said, "confrontation" can make things worse. This violent criminal appears to have gone over 650 miles from his home (in Allen, TX) to commit a mass shooting in El Paso, TX ultimately surrendering to police who never fired a shot at him. It is also unclear as to how he was able to keep shooting people at Walmart for 20 minutes when multiple police were at Walmart within 6 minutes of the initial 911 "active shooter" call - that 14 minutes surely allowed the victim count to rise.

Look, if you want to champion inaction, vs action, in terms of reducing gun violence, be my guest. I just find it deplorable ttwtt, and I do not enjoy thinking of you holding such a position.
If you lack the information to know what might work, then the correct answer is to support the gathering of non-partisan, statistically accurate and transparent data and analysis of options, or to hold hearings from experts in the field assuming such data already exists...to set goals and challenge experts to come up with solutions that are both able to be implemented and have at least some measure of reason to believe they will do more good than harm.

Etc.

Saying we can't do anything, is unbelievable.

 

[nota bene]

If someone knows a family member who is unstable, and they know from their close and love-driven ties to them they are at the tipping point would you reccomend they:
1. ignore it because freedom.
2. intervene because they love them.

How do you propose this family member intervene if the person is no longer a minor?

 

[nota bene]

Women can join the military too.

No! Really?!

 

[Outlook]

Automatic weapons are illegal

Not true. AR15 with 30 round magazine can be purchased for about $800.

 

[Crovax]

I will trade the murder rate of Japan for ours in an eye blink.

As long as we can trade the immigration rate too and the way they treat foreigners

 

[nota bene]

I think most people like this show it in some other way before they act out violently. They either are drawing pictures, writing stories, journal/diary entries, social media posts, conversations that show there is something very, very wrong.

For example, I had a student who was (and still is) clearly mentally ill with extremely violent thoughts. She would scream "I'm going to shoot this school up!" or "I'm going to stab you in the heart" or "I'm going to blow everyone here up" when she was in one of her rages. All of us who know her (including her classmates) are terrified of what she might do someday. We all know. People who knew Adam Lanza and Nikolaus Cruz knew too. It's just that we live in a society where we coddle them, we think that if we just love them more or give them therapy or let them get their aggression out in some other way that it will "cure" them. For some, that might work. For others, they're going to grow up and hurt people.

But unless you want to live in a Minority Report world, until someone acts out, there is little that can be done.

 

[Crovax]

Not true. AR15 with 30 round magazine can be purchased for about $800.

Which is not automatic

 

[Winston]

Not true. AR15 with 30 round magazine can be purchased for about $800.

I thought fully automatic weapons were illegal.

 

[KevinKohler]

Not true. AR15 with 30 round magazine can be purchased for about $800.

Semi auto =/= auto.

 

[Mach]

How do you propose this family member intervene if the person is no longer a minor?

I have a hard time believing you can imagine no way.
I also have an even harder time believe you don't even want to try, it makes me sad.

https://www.debatepolitics.com/polls/364046-do-mass-shootings-us-9.html#post1070420432

 

[Outlook]

There are many components involved in the breakdown of American society, and yes, religion is one component. I don't care what works for a country of 17 million people, 90% of which are white. Its too late to pattern the USA after the Netherlands. Sorry Peter.

The UK banned all handguns in the 90’s. People found other ways to kill each other. There were over 43,000 violent crimes involving knives, hundreds of fatal stabbings. Don’t forget the terrorist with mass killings with vehicles or bombs at concerts.
People will find ways to kill. It is impossible to stop all mass killings.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Look, if you want to champion inaction, vs action, in terms of reducing gun violence, be my guest. I just find it deplorable ttwtt, and I do not enjoy thinking of you holding such a position.
If you lack the information to know what might work, then the correct answer is to support the gathering of non-partisan, statistically accurate and transparent data and analysis of options, or to hold hearings from experts in the field assuming such data already exists...to set goals and challenge experts to come up with solutions that are both able to be implemented and have at least some measure of reason to believe they will do more good than harm.

Etc.

Saying we can't do anything, is unbelievable.

I'm simply pointing out that the folks in El Paso, TX (or here in Uhland, TX) have no viable options to deal with mass shooter (terrorists?) from Allen, TX (or other places) when they choose to travel hundreds of miles to start shooting (random?) people.

Why don't you ask the good folks of El Paso, TX or the website(s?) that published this moron's "manifesto" why they neglected to "intervene" before he shot at folks for 20 minutes? In short order (if not already done) this mass killer's name will be released by the press and we will likely hear from family, friends and neighbors that he was "a bit odd" or "was the quiet type" but "displayed no dangerous behavior".

 

[HumblePi]

No! Really?!

I don't understand what the problem was about your lady friends wanting to own a gun then? what does that have to do with what I said about military service before gun ownership?