What to do about the mass shootings in the US

[trouble13]

We're all tired of them - we all want them to stop.

So what should we do to stop them? This is a multiple-choice, public poll. Please add any other comments in the thread.

Shoot back

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[Daisy]

If someone knows a family member who is unstable, and they know from their close and love-driven ties to them they are at the tipping point would you reccomend they:
1. ignore it because freedom.
2. intervene because they love them.

Good luck with that...:roll:

 

[HumblePi]

I know it's absurd and just a flight of ideas but I think that men that currently possess firearms should keep them as long as they're willing to submit to a bi-annual inspection that their firearms are secure in a locked area. Any male from the age of 18 to 25 that wants to own a firearm must first serve in the military, then and only then upon honorable discharge should he be given a license to own any weapon. There should be a complete and total ban of all assault style weapons across the board.

 

[Mach]

Shoot back
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**** yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Get'em Trouble13!
edit: Just don't hit that lady on the ground! Opps, you did...don't worry about it man, you have a right to be a cowboy.

 

[truthatallcost]

Exactly...band aid effects do no good until the root of the problem is addressed...WHY?

Are you asking why band aid solutions don't work? I don't understand the question.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Nota, they already use things that approach being able to know what you will do using psychometrics. Remember the Cambridge whistle blower? Do you think he was making that up? So they get you to vote a certain way, or feel a certain way, or buy a certain product....that's all fine...but stopping someone from being murdered....oh no! Nota bene draws the line at stopping murder! Come on, think that through.

If we knew with sufficiently high probability person X was going to kill someone tomorrow, and instead we put them in rehabilitation that was genuinely interested in his health outcome being positive, that would be a tragedy in your eyes? But the murder...not a tragedy?

I think you're wrong, and i think if you think about it, you'll agree. If you know a family member who is unstable, and you know from your close and love-driven ties to them they are at the tipping point, does Nota Bene:
1. ignore it because freedom!
2. intervene because you love them.

Come on, I know you'll do the right thing.

Trying to get someone involuntarily committed is not easy (nor should it be). I have severe reservations about "red flag" laws (or any form of civil asset forfeiture) but time will tell if such laws actually do any good.

 

[Daisy]

Are you asking why band aid solutions don't work? I don't understand the question.

Nope, i was agreeing with ya...I already know why they don't work...

 

[nota bene]

I know it's absurd and just a flight of ideas but I think that men that currently possess firearms should keep them as long as they're willing to submit to a bi-annual inspection that their firearms are secure in a locked area. Any male from the age of 18 to 25 that wants to own a firearm must first serve in the military, then and only then upon honorable discharge should he be given a license to own any weapon. There should be a complete and total ban of all assault style weapons across the board.

My lady friends who are gun owners would be disappointed to read this.

 

[Mach]

Trying to get someone involuntarily committed is not easy (nor should it be). I have severe reservations about "red flag" laws (or any form of civil asset forfeiture) but time will tell if such laws actually do any good.

Why in your mind is "being committed" the only way to intervene? Being committed never even occurred to me as being on the top of the solutions list if you know something is about to hit a tipping point.

 

[trouble13]

Single-payer healthcare would make mental health care more accessible to millions of people. People need to be able to talk to a therapist about their issues with society, rather than let their resentments boil over into these atrocities.

Heres simething that i think you might find as an attractive alternative to single payer or maybe as something to be incorporated into it. Full disclosure i believe technology and specifically AI is going to solve many of the problems society struggles with today. This link is only one example of many things we are working on.

Using AI for Mental Health Effectively

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[Daisy]

Why in your mind is "being committed" the only way to intervene? Being committed never even occurred to me as being on the top of the solutions list if you know something is about to hit a tipping point.

You've never dealt with a mentally ill person, that is obvious...a prime symptom is they quit taking their meds and about the only way to get them back on their meds is for them to hit rock bottom without them killing their self or someone else, or getting them committed for treatment...that is a vicious cycle...

 

[ttwtt78640]

Why in your mind is "being committed" the only way to intervene? Being committed never even occurred to me as being on the top of the solutions list if you know something is about to hit a tipping point.

What, exactly, did you have in mind as the 'proper' form of intervention? If a person already has the "everybody is against me" mindset (is at the tipping point?) then suggesting that they seek mental health help may be the straw which tips them over the edge.

 

[truthatallcost]

There are many motivations, but if you look closely almost all of them are suicidal, choosing a different means of suicide that involves victims as well. When it comes down to it in many cases those who are suicidal are just hoping that someone will care about them. When family life is scarce and society is too busy with themselves to care about others, many who are suicidal who could have been saved end up not being saved, and some end up going down extreme paths, like choosing to take others with them in a mass shooting or doing the same while backing some extreme ideology just so they could feel they had a place to fit in.

Family is not just your mother and father and immediate children, there should be aunts uncles grandparents great grandparents cousins etc looking out for you, as well as your friends, when society stops having a tight bond of looking after their own, it falls apart as it moves towards selfishness and the prospect of me myself and I rather than the idea of friends family and mutual respect.

Whether deliberately or unconsciously, we've done away with moral standards and expectations that previously helped create large, close knit families. Easy access to divorce, abortion, & drugs, all while Hollywood and the media push a glamorized image of certain groups abstaining from having children.

And this one takes the takes the cake for sheer absurdity-

"BirthStrikers: meet the women who refuse to have children until climate change ends. US congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez gave voice to their concerns last month, pointing to the increasingly dire scientific consensus and widespread government inaction: “It does lead young people to have a legitimate question: is it OK still to have children?”

Ironically, one group that instructs primarily college educated women in their 20s-30s to give up childbirth to fight climate change is called Extinction Rebellion. :doh

BirthStrikers: meet the women who refuse to have children until climate change ends | Life and style | The Guardian

 

[trouble13]

**** yeah, that's what I'm talking about! Get'em Trouble13!
edit: Just don't hit that lady on the ground! Opps, you did...don't worry about it man, you have a right to be a cowboy.

I didnt say shoot first.

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[OldFatGuy]

My seven year old granddaughter told me they had a drill in her public school where the girls from her class took refuge in a girls bathroom for "a long time" and some of the girls argued that they should stand on the toilets to fool the gunman who might look in.

When is enough enough?

About when I was seven, having been shown films of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the bombs exploded and the aftermath, with sirens blowing we were instructed to hide under our desks. Having seen those films, we had little or any faith that hiding under our desks was a solution. We had already learned radiation can kill and couldn't be seen, traveling with the sunlight as it passed through windows. Boys being boys, mass killings weren't on our minds, or thoughts of our own mortality, but we did start passing knowledge of the different colors of the girls underwear, spied as we were under those flimsy desks, and all the girls were required to wear skirts, as boys were required to wear neckties. Clip-ons were prevalent, as were yellow and pink panties with flowers.

The general consensus, tho we didn't know the word, true fear formed in the presence of older bullies, old Mrs. McGovern who taught kindergarten, getting sent to the principal's office, "wait till your dad gets home," and nasty older sisters. Death and the bomb were still too abstract, but under the desk drills ameliorated the boredom of sitting at the desk forbidden from speaking with each other, even tho most had already experienced goldfish and parakeets getting flushed down toilets.

Things are different. TV has made for more sophisticated kids, kids who don't laugh at rabbits beating up pigs, or the Three Stooges smacking each other around. There was rape and abuse, not spoken about, and headlines of gangland murders with blood on the front pages of B&W tabloids. But we weren't gangsters (yet), just kids. And in all the movies and TV shows the bad guys got theirs from the heroes who rode off in the sunset.

Later those same kids, a bit more sophisticated, taking to heart earlier lessons about morality, embraced the counter culture, anti bomb protests, anti war protests and free love, equality to the shock of the older generation who taught them those values.

For the most part we all want the same thing, to live well, see our children and grandchildren prosper, live without fear, without suffering. Yet there are predators out there, people who enjoy killing people. That's the story of Cain and Abel, from the dawn of time with no explanation, just admonishment.

When we speak to survivors of these incidents, one phrase echoes in the background "I never thought it would happen here." That sense of suspended disbelief is no longer extant. As long as the human race continues to produce predators, there will never be a moment where "enough is enough." Every time someone labels someone else with a derogatory term, the fires of hate are stoked, the predators are fed and nourished. Happens here everyday.

 

[HumblePi]

My lady friends who are gun owners would be disappointed to read this.

Women can join the military too.

 

[HumblePi]

About when I was seven, having been shown films of Hiroshima and Nagasaki as the bombs exploded and the aftermath, with sirens blowing we were instructed to hide under our desks. Having seen those films, we had little or any faith that hiding under our desks was a solution. We had already learned radiation can kill and couldn't be seen, traveling with the sunlight as it passed through windows. Boys being boys, mass killings weren't on our minds, or thoughts of our own mortality, but we did start passing knowledge of the different colors of the girls underwear, spied as we were under those flimsy desks, and all the girls were required to wear skirts, as boys were required to wear neckties. Clip-ons were prevalent, as were yellow and pink panties with flowers.

The general consensus, tho we didn't know the word, true fear formed in the presence of older bullies, old Mrs. McGovern who taught kindergarten, getting sent to the principal's office, "wait till your dad gets home," and nasty older sisters. Death and the bomb were still too abstract, but under the desk drills ameliorated the boredom of sitting at the desk forbidden from speaking with each other, even tho most had already experienced goldfish and parakeets getting flushed down toilets.

Things are different. TV has made for more sophisticated kids, kids who don't laugh at rabbits beating up pigs, or the Three Stooges smacking each other around. There was rape and abuse, not spoken about, and headlines of gangland murders with blood on the front pages of B&W tabloids. But we weren't gangsters (yet), just kids. And in all the movies and TV shows the bad guys got theirs from the heroes who rode off in the sunset.

Later those same kids, a bit more sophisticated, taking to heart earlier lessons about morality, embraced the counter culture, anti bomb protests, anti war protests and free love, equality to the shock of the older generation who taught them those values.

For the most part we all want the same thing, to live well, see our children and grandchildren prosper, live without fear, without suffering. Yet there are predators out there, people who enjoy killing people. That's the story of Cain and Abel, from the dawn of time with no explanation, just admonishment.

When we speak to survivors of these incidents, one phrase echoes in the background "I never thought it would happen here." That sense of suspended disbelief is no longer extant. As long as the human race continues to produce predators, there will never be a moment where "enough is enough." Every time someone labels someone else with a derogatory term, the fires of hate are stoked, the predators are fed and nourished. Happens here everyday.

It took me 20 years to realize that we were instructed to shelter under wooden desks, it was like hiding beneath the kindling wood for a fire.

 

[HumblePi]

Whether deliberately or unconsciously, we've done away with moral standards and expectations that previously helped create large, close knit families. Easy access to divorce, abortion, & drugs, all while Hollywood and the media push a glamorized image of certain groups abstaining from having children.

And this one takes the takes the cake for sheer absurdity-

"BirthStrikers: meet the women who refuse to have children until climate change ends. US congresswoman Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez gave voice to their concerns last month, pointing to the increasingly dire scientific consensus and widespread government inaction: “It does lead young people to have a legitimate question: is it OK still to have children?”

Ironically, one group that instructs primarily college educated women in their 20s-30s to give up childbirth to fight climate change is called Extinction Rebellion. :doh

BirthStrikers: meet the women who refuse to have children until climate change ends | Life and style | The Guardian

It sort of takes care of the abortion debate to some extent, doesn't it? And women get to keep their nice flat tummy. (bonus)

 

[ttwtt78640]

Women can join the military too.

Your post specifically said males aged 18-25.

 

[HumblePi]

Your post specifically said males aged 18-25.

okay, so now I'll change it to specifically either male or female. But I have never known any 19 year old young woman to commit any mass murders in US history. But if a 19 year old female wants to purchase an AK 47, then she should also be required to do military service first. The U.S.military is still an EEOE except of course if you aren't gender specific.

 

[truthatallcost]

Nope, i was agreeing with ya...I already know why they don't work...

I saw what you wrote about religion, and ultimately I do think you're right about that. We've instructed children that there is no afterlife, no higher power than oneself, and then we stand with mouths agape, confused and frustrated when young people act out in a manner that is grossly selfish. 'The guns, the guns' they stammer. It must be the guns!

 

[Winston]

Capitalism in America worked the best during the period spanning roughly 50 years, from post war 1946-early 2000's. Then two things happened- we allowed pharmaceutical companies under the guise of capitalism to push dangerous drugs upon society, which has killed some half a million Americans in 20 years, and put many millions more into a permanent state of severe dysfunction. While this was occurring, American capitalists were looking to create a global economy of consumers, which resulted in a bit of a modern gold rush mentality- the future be damned, I want my riches today.

I can't argue with you on the issue of runaway greed from capitalism helping to contribute to the current problems. In fact, I was going to post a story before I was suspended detailing the nearly 2 million jobs lost because of private equity firms who cannibalize previously sturdy American companies on a routine basis now.

I'd like to hear your ideas for solving this problem.

People feel like they are being left behind without a way out. Most young people feel they have no future and that their government has abdicated its responsibility to legislate on their behalf. Most people feel like its the runaway greed of special interests that runs the world and that no matter what they do no one will listen to them.

So, for me it actually takes a couple structural changes to the political system, such as getting money out of politics and passing some government programs that will help people and show them their government cares more about them than lining the pockets of the oil companies and defense contractors.

 

[gdgyva]

By finding and destroying them. That's my first guess, do I get a prize?

so lets take Chicago as an example

how are you going to accomplish this masterful idea?

who are you going to send into the gang areas to round up all the guns?

you sending the Chicago Police? hell, they wont even go into a few neighborhoods for calls

you making this a national guard thing? so Barry, the cpa from Normal who is a weekend warrior gets to go up against the gangbangers of Chitown?

or is this going to be a federal thing...sending in ATF and other lettered agencies?

please tell us HOW you will accomplish such a masterful task

 

[ttwtt78640]

okay, so now I'll change it to specifically either male or female. But I have never known any 19 year old young woman to commit any mass murders in US history. But if a 19 year old female wants to purchase an AK 47, then she should also be required to do military service first. The U.S.military is still an EEOE except of course if you aren't gender specific.

Active duty military are (currently) under 2% of the US popualtion - what about the constituional rights of other 98+%?

What Percentage Of Americans Have Served In The Military? | FiveThirtyEight

 

[truthatallcost]

It sort of takes care of the abortion debate to some extent, doesn't it? And women get to keep their nice flat tummy. (bonus)

For how long?

The creator of Sex and the City recently gave an interview where she said that she traded having children for a great career, and she now regrets it. Like I said, Hollywood and the media glamorize immediate gratification, short term fun at the expense of the future.