What Should be the Future of Amtrak

[Mason66]

I don't quite understand your brief reply. What did you mean?
Regards,
CP

You don't know Joe Biden uses Amtrak to commute from Washington to his home?

It is his personal form of transportation.

 

[Lord of Planar]

I hope you've figured out that airplanes face the same problem, right?

Yes, but to make a significant difference in a tunnel, you would need a far lower pressure yet.

 

[DifferentDrummr]

Yes, but to make a significant difference in a tunnel, you would need a far lower pressure yet.

Which is still doable.

 

[Media_Truth]

Heavy trucks (Semis) do far more damage to the road than a passenger car.

When I worked at an asphalt refinery many years ago, the value they gave was 100 000 to 1. It would take 100 000 passenger cars to do the damage of on loaded semi truck.

As for proof

https://www.lrrb.org/pdf/201432.pdf



For visual experiment on a hot day go to a intersection which is made of asphalt, with heavy truck traffic and see the difference in deformation of the road surface when a car stops and leaves to a loaded semi truck. The deformation is visible with semi trucks compared to cars

The benefits of modified asphalts | Asphalt magazine

Thank you for your input and your links. LOP is once again spouting his unsupported nonsense.

 

[Media_Truth]

You don't know Joe Biden uses Amtrak to commute from Washington to his home?

It is his personal form of transportation.

Amtrak JOE!!!

 

[Lord of Planar]

Thank you for your input and your links. LOP is once again spouting his unsupported nonsense.

Load factor is not "damage." When a road is built to handle these weights, it's not the same as an unimproved alley.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Remember also that the link provided in post 168, it also states that trucks do no harm over the service life of the road.

 

[Media_Truth]

Remember also that the link provided in post 168, it also states that trucks do no harm over the service life of the road.

You are starting to remind me of your buddy!

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Remember also that the link provided in post 168, it also states that trucks do no harm over the service life of the road.

The first link states that trucks do damage to the service life of the road

Network Analysis
The network analysis provides an overview of the entire network with the application of the
heavy vehicles specified by the user. The same set of heavy vehicles is applied to all roads in the
network. Due to the summary nature of the analysis, detailed information on specific roads
cannot be provided in the results pages. The network report provides total impact cost
information, assuming that all vehicles are applied to all streets. As described in the previous
chapter, the total cost of consumed life, over the entire network is reported, as well as the total
cost of additional asphalt to upgrade the network to accommodate the additional heavy vehicles.
The two methods of computing the cost of impacts will not provide exactly the same results,
since they are computing completely different impacts. They are almost always close to each
other however. For example, in the example in Figures 20 and 21 shows that the percent life
consumed method predicted about $994,000 in impact costs, and the additional asphalt thickness
design method predicted about $1,227,000 in costs. Considering that these two methods arrived
at these values in completely different ways, it is a very close comparison.

 

[Lord of Planar]

The first link states that trucks do damage to the service life of the road

Interesting they mention asphalt thickness. I see it didn't cover under the asphalt type, or the aggregate size and thickness, and how deep it is under the surface.

Notice they said "all roads." The thing is, roads built to handle the loads have no noticeable damage over the service life. Weather damages the roads more. Freezing and cooling, and noting does more damage than studded tires and chains.

Lots of factors go into a road, and the types of vehicles are part of that equation. Heavy vehicles do excessive damage on roads not built to handle them. Not to roads made to handle them.

 

[Lord Tammerlain]

Interesting they mention asphalt thickness. I see it didn't cover under the asphalt type, or the aggregate size and thickness, and how deep it is under the surface.

Notice they said "all roads." The thing is, roads built to handle the loads have no noticeable damage over the service life. Weather damages the roads more. Freezing and cooling, and noting does more damage than studded tires and chains.

Lots of factors go into a road, and the types of vehicles are part of that equation. Heavy vehicles do excessive damage on roads not built to handle them. Not to roads made to handle them.

Of course the roads built to handle them cost more to build, as mentioned in the first link

When driving on the highway a person can see what damage is likely done by weather/aging, vs vehicle traffic

The cracks that go across the road are generally weather/aging related damage, cracks that travel withe road, especially where tires are usually are normally traffic related damage

 

[Media_Truth]

Again, somebody shows LOP‘s preposterous comments are nothing but folly. Again somebody posts reputable links, and LOP links to nothing. And we haven’t even begun to discuss other infrastructure damage from heavy trucks. The extreme vibration is especially problematic on bridges.

The entire LOP premise is that it’s OK to subsidize trucking, but not freight rail, who must maintain their own tracks (leased by Amtrak). Trillions of dolars of difference in Governmental süpport.

 

[Individual]

As for Amtrak, don't subsidize it, just privatize it and tax it.

 

[Lord of Planar]

Of course the roads built to handle them cost more to build, as mentioned in the first link

When driving on the highway a person can see what damage is likely done by weather/aging, vs vehicle traffic

The cracks that go across the road are generally weather/aging related damage, cracks that travel withe road, especially where tires are usually are normally traffic related damage

The two biggest problem I see:

Improper laid roads to begin with. Very poor construction practices in Portlandia. I see chunks of asphalt fall apart because the strip a layer off, then wait after several days, sometimes weeks of rain before laying new asphalt. Now in such incompetent construction practices, yes, heavy vehicles will tear up a road in a heartbeat. But not roads constructed properly. I have seen such construction practices dramatically change over the years. They use to lay new asphalt almost immediately after stripping that three inches or so off. Every time now, it's at least five days before they come back and lay new asphalt.

People putting and driving with studded tires, putting them on too early in the season, and taking them off too late. The largest damage by a heavy vehicle will be in hot summers when the roads are baked and softer. Yet year after year, the biggest damage here, is in the winter.

 

[Lord of Planar]

As for Amtrak, don't subsidize it, just privatize it and tax it.

Doesn't AMTRAK already use existing rail lines, kept up by Union Pacific, et. al?

Why do they need any subsidies? Their rails are already paid for.

 

[bongsaway]

Maybe take the midnight train to georgia?

 

[Lord of Planar]

Great song back then.

 

[concernedpuma]

You don't know Joe Biden uses Amtrak to commute from Washington to his home?

It is his personal form of transportation.

I didn't know that. Thank you for your reply.
Regards,
CP

 

[Port & Starboard]

Passenger rail in Europe is often much, much better than in the US. The TVG in France is excellent.

Considering that cars and fuel are taxed to the heavens in the EU, I can see why.

 

[Port & Starboard]

AMTRAK is the rail version of Greyhound.

Full of drunks, crazies, and other obnoxious people.

 

[concernedpuma]

AMTRAK is the rail version of Greyhound.

Full of drunks, crazies, and other obnoxious people.

Yeah, but unfortunately, you can't stop the bus and boot 'em out. They are with you, till the trip is through!
Regards,
CP

 

[concernedpuma]

Considering that cars and fuel are taxed to the heavens in the EU, I can see why.

Another fact that seems to be overlooked when comparing the U.S. to Europe and much of Asia is the vastly different evolution of our societies. Europe evolved from the olden days when you worked within walking distance of your employment and shopping. The United States has been a distance expanding society from day one. I would be willing to bet a shiny nickel, that the daily commute distance for the average American worker is more than the monthly distance traveled to work and back by your average European.
Regards,
CP

 

[Masterhawk]

Why use amtrak when you can just drive or fly?

 

[Individual]

Doesn't AMTRAK already use existing rail lines, kept up by Union Pacific, et. al?

Why do they need any subsidies? Their rails are already paid for.

I read where the fare for some routes was higher than the cost of an airline ticket between the same points, but Amtrak does own a small portion of the rail lines it uses and pays a small fee for the use of those it doesn't own. As I understand, some routes are profitable and others are not, resulting in some money from the profitable routes being distributed to the unprofitable routes, but still failing to cover ALL the costs. But the government subsidy only results in about $0.60 for the year per citizen, most of whom don't use Amtrak at all, and probably are totally unaware of that as it can easily be ignored as Federal debt which no one worries about as it is not expected to ever be paid.
Unlike ordinary citizens, when times are tough, government can and does spend more and when times are good, government also spends more.

 

[Media_Truth]

As others have pointed out, those Federal Highways are really profitable and self-sufficient.:roll: They should add toll booths to every federal highway, so that they become self-sufficient.