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What is the solution to mass shootings in the United States?

Bring back a moral code, 2 parent families where one parent stays home, family dinners, less medication for kids, how about none, more play time for kids, they need exercise not video games, parents need to stop being their kids friend and be a parent. Make it OK again to slap your kid when he/she needs it. Start giving trophies to the winners and a pat on the back for the losers again, not everyone deserves a medal.

Make it OK again for kids to point out that the weird kid in the class is weird, not to be a bully but to express the truth. I'm tired of this all inclusive crap, I have to like you, you have to like me, if I ask you to dance you can't say no. Life is a bowl full of hurt feelings, eat em up, cause it's what we're having for dinner.
 
apdst said:
Switzerland has looser gun laws than The United States. They don't have this problem. Obviously, gun ownership isn't the issue.
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Gun laws are much stricter in Switzerland than the US.

They are allowed to buy their firearm after completing military service but must give justification and get a permit.
 
OldFatGuy said:
Other countries do not enjoy Freedom of the Press as we do. In most countries, reporting mass killings, or murders, on front pages is a violation of law.

I certainly doubt this is the only reason, or even an important reason, but it looks like it makes a difference. When that school shooting went down in Sweden, the local media had to wait 3 days before reporting, and then were refused headline publication of the shooting. Censors claimed they didn't want to panic the public, and they didn't want the shooter glorified by those with a similar attitude. Many Swedes learned about the shooting from the BBC, Danish and German media.
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Can you source this? I can't find anything about it.

For what it's worth I also think it best that we stop reporting on mass shootings like we do. Keep the attacker out of the news. Stop glorifying them.

OldFatGuy said:
Sweden has the largest ration of hunters in Europe. Gun ownership is common. Nearby Finland, like Israel, requires every citizen to own a rifle and train for combat. It has the lowest violent crime ratio in Europe.
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Hunting is closely regulated by the Finnish government. A would-be hunter must pass a written test on game biology, legislation, and management before he can purchase a hunting permit. You also must pass a rifle-shooting test and a background check before you can obtain a firearm license. A hunter must also be licensed for the number and type of animals he plans to kill.

The ownership and use of firearms is regulated by the Firearms Act of 1998. A license is always needed for possession of a firearm and all firearms are registered. Firearms may only be carried while they are being used for a specific purpose (e.g. hunting, shooting at the range). When transporting a firearm to or from such activity, the firearm must be unloaded and stored in a case or pouch. The owner of a firearm is responsible for making sure that firearms and ammunition do not end up in unauthorized hands. The exact requirements regarding storage of firearms depends on their type and quantity.
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Wow. Lowest violent crime rate in Europe! It sounds like they have a........ solution????

Not to mention, they have loads of depressed people. So they have

a) a big hunting culture and gun culture
b) lots of depressed people

yet

c) low gun violence rates

Looks like they have an answer. What's stopping us?

OldFatGuy said:
I believe the perpetrators of mass killings are committing suicide, knowingly. Until we understand the underlying causes of that propensity, we will have no answers.

Police responded to this boy's home 39 times during 7 years because of his violent behavior, and no one, NO ONE saw this coming?

All thoughts that come to mind. I'm no smarter than anyone else, and I don't have the answers. Apparently, neither does anyone else.
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It's practically impossible to see stuff like this coming. The problem is there are tens of thousands of people who give off early warning signs of violence. Less than 1% of these will ever do anything. No one, repeat, no one knows who will commit violence, nor when they will do it.

The idea that we have to get to the full root of a sociological problem before we can do anything about it is absolutely folly. No-one will ever know. We don't know why people commit all sorts of crimes - but that doesn't mean we don't act to try to prevent them from happening. At the end of the day society and legislation is one big experiment.
 
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What is the solution to mass-shootings in the United States? The solution in part may alarm you, and it should.

Gun ownership bonds. You have the right to own guns in America if you can afford the guns. So raising the cost of guns by having prospective gun owners post costly peace bonds in order to own them will reduce the number of legal owners who could snap, 'go postal' and kill folks in large numbers. That coupled with vigorous remote electronic detection of illegal guns in the possession of criminals will reduce access to the population and raise the barriers to carrying guns in public for nefarious purposes.

Rewriting the Second Amendment to limit gun ownership to responsible citizens, to limit the numbers and types of guns which can be legally owned by an individual of sound mind, good character and the age of majority. Also to once again tie gun ownership and possession to participation in a well-regulated, public state-run militia which all adults of sound mind, good character and who are the age of majority can join.

How do you create the political will to enact such fundamental changes? Play hardball in a brutal kulturkampf, on the upperclass streets of America. Spend millions or billions of citizen-donated dollars vilifying the pro-gun industry owners, managers, advocates and politicians in a vicious nongovernmental propaganda campaign which demonises and dehumanises them to lower the barriers to their slaughter. Then encourage crazy, would-be, mass-murderers to target the pro-gun industry owners, managers, advocates, lobbyists and politicians, their spouses, their children and their property. When enough of them and their families have died in mass-shootings, the political will to change things shall be there and change will happen. So kill the rich and powerful who support unfettered gun ownership and possession and take out their families, you sociopathic crazies out there; until their senselessly spilled blood lubricates the wheels of political change in an otherwise politically indifferent America. When the ruling class has been decimated by psychopathic gun violence then things will change.

Of course I jest, honest and for true! But if things don't change, well, violence is always an option for mad folk intent on reshaping a society.

Cheers.
Very Evilroddy.
 
Risky Thicket said:
Most all of us have read, watched and listened to stories about the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida. Media has flogged this story hard. They've interviewed countless people, many of them politicians.

One thing I have yet to hear any member of the media ask is "Why does this continue to happen?" One thing I have yet to hear any politico say is "First we must understand why these mass shootings continue to occur in the United States."

The press isn't asking why it continues to happen. The press is asking "What are you going to do about it?" As a result politicians attempt to answer to "What" question while either not having the balls or the brains to suggest that the question we must first address is "Why".

So here we go again doing the same thing and expecting different results. How is that going to work out? Same as always. We will blame guns, kids, poor security, mental health, etc. and the politicos will offer prayers and promises. Nothing much at all will change between now and the next mass shooting.

You cannot provide a successful solution to a problem you don't fully understand. WHY do mass shootings occur again and again in America?

I have no answers, but I would submit that there are a number of contributing factors. I don't know all the factors or how much each factor contributes to the overall problem. I have no idea if or to what degree each of the contributing factors affect each other. What I have heard or read is opinions.

What are the root causes? Why does it happen and continue to happen? We don't really know. Until we know why we are just going to continue to throw mud on the wall and hope some of it sticks.
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Education.
 
apdst said:
Mass shootings should be a Federal crime with a mandatory death sentence.
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The death penalty has never been shown to decrease the violent crime rate...and we've had quite a few innocent people put on death row (although 10,000 executions of the right criminals does not excuse the wrongful execution of even one innocent person). That's why I'm strongly against the death penalty. IMO, it's would be better - and crueler - to put him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life.
 
ttwtt78640 said:
Who is prosecuting the given mass shooter and for violation of what law(s)?
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Mass shootings are not a national problem because it's prosecuted by the state? That's like saying the opiod crisis is not a national problem since it's only really addressed at the state level.
 
Nilly said:
Can you source this? I can't find anything about it.
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I heard this mouth to mouth when we toured Europe last summer, in Denmark specifically. It's not like something the Swedes want to publicize. After all, they are a liberal democracy with one of the highest tax rates in the world.

I don't speak Swedish or Danish, but the Danes we met all spoke English.

Nilly said:
Wow. Lowest violent crime rate in Europe! It sounds like they have a........ solution????
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Everyone in Finland is armed, even children. Tough people, you don't want to mess with. Ask the Russians. They found the Finns look at war as a national sport. Depression is not an issue in Finland, and it's a myth about Sweden and the suicide rate. Arming everyone here might to the trick, but with all the road rage and fights over parking spaces, I'm not so sure.

Nilly said:
The idea that we have to get to the full root of a sociological problem before we can do anything about it is absolutely folly. No-one will ever know. We don't know why people commit all sorts of crimes - but that doesn't mean we don't act to try to prevent them from happening. At the end of the day society and legislation is one big experiment.
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Yup.
 
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Risky Thicket said:
Most all of us have read, watched and listened to stories about the mass shooting in Parkland, Florida. Media has flogged this story hard. They've interviewed countless people, many of them politicians.

One thing I have yet to hear any member of the media ask is "Why does this continue to happen?" One thing I have yet to hear any politico say is "First we must understand why these mass shootings continue to occur in the United States."

The press isn't asking why it continues to happen. The press is asking "What are you going to do about it?" As a result politicians attempt to answer to "What" question while either not having the balls or the brains to suggest that the question we must first address is "Why".

So here we go again doing the same thing and expecting different results. How is that going to work out? Same as always. We will blame guns, kids, poor security, mental health, etc. and the politicos will offer prayers and promises. Nothing much at all will change between now and the next mass shooting.

You cannot provide a successful solution to a problem you don't fully understand. WHY do mass shootings occur again and again in America?

I have no answers, but I would submit that there are a number of contributing factors. I don't know all the factors or how much each factor contributes to the overall problem. I have no idea if or to what degree each of the contributing factors affect each other. What I have heard or read is opinions.

What are the root causes? Why does it happen and continue to happen? We don't really know. Until we know why we are just going to continue to throw mud on the wall and hope some of it sticks.
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Obviously thoughts and prayers have amounted to useless gestures or worse, just dismissive words, so I'm done with those.

I guess I've gotta restart somewhere that I haven't found yet. Thing is, I don't think the USA wants to as a voting block. They are in their respective corners pointing fingers.
 
Mr Person said:
The only solution I can see is never going to happen, would take potentially decades, and would be nigh-on impossible in terms of logistics (it would also be a solution to gun violence generally):

Repeal the 2nd Amd. Ban all firearms. Require all lawful owners to turn over guns. Investigate any who claim theirs were "stolen". Nationwide sweeps for unlawful guns (unlikely to have a constitutional method of doing so - martial law, perhaps). Massive increase in shipping security, particularly at our docks.



Well, obviously you can stop reading at the first sentence. The 2nd is going nowhere.

It would also take quite a long time to truly work since there are who knows how many illegally owned guns in the country. They can last quite a long time. So even if all lawful owners turned in all their guns, there would be a situation where only the bad guys have guns. They tend to hold onto them and only dispose of them after use in a crime.





The problem is that it really IS the guns. Our rates of gun violence compare to broken countries. Yet we're first world. The richest. All you have to do is plot gun ownership per capita against gun violence per capita.

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It even translates to the state level:

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It's generally an utterly moot issue, however, because nobody is going to be repealing the 2nd. Amd. Very little can actually be done now. Some things can be done, but if the subject is "how do we stop this", well, it's probably far too late.

I'd certainly support reasonable measures aimed at keeping guns out of dangerous hands, but we shouldn't kid ourselves. That'll make a dent maybe, but only a dent.
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Funny how you took the gun death rate and not the total homicide rate. Mass shooting deaths are all homicides but not many Americans die from mass shootings when compared to the overall homicide rate. So far, only 31 Americans have been murdered in a mass shooting this year and we are halfway through February. Assuming that the rate remains constant, 248 Americans will die from mass shootings this year.
Gun Violence Archive

The homicide rate in the US in 2014 was 4.4 per 100,000 but the gun death rate was actually twice as high, being 10 per 100,000. So more than half of all gun deaths in the US are not from murders, but from suicides. In 2014, the gun suicide rate was 6.3 per 100,000.

The numbers also included gun accidents but the rate was incredibly low at only 0.18 per 100,000.
 
In parts of the world with strict gun control the crazy people use bombs, or drive trucks into crowds, or poison gas in the subway, or blow up trains, or hijack airliners. Here it is guns because they are available. I can remember when burning black churches was the thing. I also remember Oklahoma City and Tim McVay. You don't need a gun to kill.

It's time we put mentally disturbed people on the Instant Check list to prohibit gun purchases. And that list should include;

People under a doctors care and prescribed an anti-depressant because they suffer from depression. Depressed people should not be buying guns. That would have covered this most recent shooter and the Las Vegas shooter. That would have covered the Columbine shooters. Actually, that alone would cover 95% of these shooters.

People who have PTSD. A person with PTSD has no business possessing or buying a gun.

Therapists should have to report people they are treating whom they believe may be a danger to themselves or others. They should not be buying guns.

Social Security has hundreds of thousands of accounts that have an appointed administrator because the person receiving SS is mentally incapable of managing their own SS check. If you are mentally incapable of handling a SS check you have no business buying a gun.

Anyone convicted of battery should not be allowed to buy a gun.

I know the mental health profession is against these measures but almost all of these shooters have had mental health issues. Those need to go on record to protect the rest of us.

BTW; I am an NRA Life member.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The death penalty has never been shown to decrease the violent crime rate...and we've had quite a few innocent people put on death row (although 10,000 executions of the right criminals does not excuse the wrongful execution of even one innocent person). That's why I'm strongly against the death penalty. IMO, it's would be better - and crueler - to put him in solitary confinement for the rest of his life.
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Yeah, that's why convicts on death row file appeal, after appeal, after appeal. They don't want to die. It goes against human instinct. To a convict, life on death row beats being dead. If wouldbe murderers knew that the death penalty was mandatory, the murder rate would decrease.

Committing a murder with an automatic weapon carries an automatic death penalty. I say we give it a try. Who cares if these scumbags die?
 
apdst said:
Yeah, that's why convicts on death row file appeal, after appeal, after appeal. They don't want to die. It goes against human instinct. To a convict, life on death row beats being dead. If wouldbe murderers knew that the death penalty was mandatory, the murder rate would decrease.

Committing a murder with an automatic weapon carries an automatic death penalty. I say we give it a try. Who cares if these scumbags die?
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Given that most of these mass shooters end up committing suicide before being caught, I doubt the DP is going to be a deterrent.
 
Aristaeus said:
Given that most of these mass shooters end up committing suicide before being caught, I doubt the DP is going to be a deterrent.
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James Holmes, Dylan Roof, Nicholas Cruz and Jared Loughner are still breathing. Granted, Roof got sentenced to death, but he hasn't been executed, yet.

I'm not talking about just mass shooters. I'm talking all murderers.
 
apdst said:
James Holmes, Dylan Roof, Nicholas Cruz and Jared Loughner are still breathing. Granted, Roof got sentenced to death, but he hasn't been executed, yet.

I'm not talking about just mass shooters. I'm talking all murderers.
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We need to follow the example of Guiseppi Zangara. In 1933 he killed Chicago mayor Anton Cermak on February 15 and was tried, convicted and executed on March 20th ....five weeks from the day of the crime.
 
apdst said:
James Holmes, Dylan Roof, Nicholas Cruz and Jared Loughner are still breathing. Granted, Roof got sentenced to death, but he hasn't been executed, yet.

I'm not talking about just mass shooters. I'm talking all murderers.
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It does not work as a deterrent. The majority of murderers do not think they will get caught in the first place. The rest are crimes of passion. In both cases consequences for said actions are not even considered, let alone any kind of deterrent.

PS I am pro death penalty. Let's not however fool ourselves into thinking it's some kind of deterrent.
 
Black Dog said:
It does not work as a deterrent. The majority of murderers do not think they will get caught in the first place. The rest are crimes of passion. In both cases consequences for said actions are not even considered, let alone any kind of deterrent.

PS I am pro death penalty. Let's not however fool ourselves into thinking it's some kind of deterrent.
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It worked when it was used more frequently.
 
Glen Contrarian said:
The only solutions are those that Republican legislators will never consider - at least, not as long as they suck on the hind teat of the NRA and the gun manufacturers, and as long as they are controlled by right-wing pundits.
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Exactly what the OP was talking about, partisan head in the sand thinking.
 
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