What is free speech?

[prometeus]

Are purposeful lies free speech? How about if they cause harm?

 

[Bullseye]

Are purposeful lies free speech? How about if they cause harm?

Like Biden's campaign speeches?

 

[Redress]

Are purposeful lies free speech?

I am assuming you mean are are they free speech protected by the First Amendment. Yes, lies are protected speech.

How about if they cause harm?

It depends. Perjury is not protected for example. Nor is libel. Outside that, it can be murky at times based on legal precedent. Offering bad advice is probably protected under most situations. When it comes to political speech, the courts have historically given very wide latitude to the speaker. Political speech is very strongly protected, even when it is dishonest.

 

[prometeus]

Like Biden's campaign speeches?

So sorry, I forgot to ask respondents to refrain from asshole replies, because I was hoping for and intelligent discussion.

 

[prometeus]

I am assuming you mean are are they free speech protected by the First Amendment. Yes, lies are protected speech.

No really. Shouting fire in an theater is a lie and not protected.

It depends.

Yes it does, doesn't it.

Perjury is not protected for example. Nor is libel. Outside that, it can be murky at times based on legal precedent.

How about incitement to violence?

When it comes to political speech, the courts have historically given very wide latitude to the speaker. Political speech is very strongly protected, even when it is dishonest.

There is a difference between dishonest and purposeful lie. Why should that be protected? Lying about Covid vaccines cost lives. Does that not matter?

 

[Loulit01]

On this subject it must be remembered that the government is largely prohibited from banning speech. Private enterprise may ban what it wishes. Every newspaper, radio station, website, forum, TV show, etc, decides what it will and will not allow.

For example, FoxNews/Pravda bans everything that makes sense.

 

[prometeus]

On this subject it must be remembered that the government is largely prohibited from banning speech.

The government is also responsible to keep people safe.

Private enterprise may ban what it wishes.

Yes, we see that with Twitter.

 

[American]

Are purposeful lies free speech? How about if they cause harm?

When you can guarantee that politicians will never lie, get back to us.

 

[Loulit01]

The government is also responsible to keep people safe.

Yes, we see that with Twitter.

We see that with Twitter, CNN, Fox, NYT, Washington Post, the evening news, everywhere.

 

[prometeus]

When you can guarantee that politicians will never lie, get back to us.

What the **** are you blabbering about?

 

[lemmiwinx]

Like Biden's campaign speeches?

Or any professional politician's lies. They will lie to you in a heartbeat to get themselves reelected.

 

[prometeus]

We see that with Twitter, CNN, Fox, NYT, Washington Post, the evening news, everywhere.

So lets get back to the example about vaccines or rather the stupid crap that was spread against vaccines and people died. Should no one be responsible?

 

[Gateman_Wen]

Like Biden's campaign speeches?

Lol, you mean like when tRump got inaugurated and told two easily spotted lies within the hour?

 

[Loulit01]

So lets get back to the example about vaccines or rather the stupid crap that was spread against vaccines and people died. Should no one be responsible?

It's fine with me if people are held responsible.

 

[prometeus]

It's fine with me if people are held responsible.

That would mean that that was not free speech.

 

[ttwtt78640]

Are purposeful lies free speech?

Yes, even when used to get elected.

How about if they cause harm?

That varies, but unless it’s (provable) libel, slander, fraud or perjury then you‘re unlikely to face legal consequences.

 

[Redress]

No really. Shouting fire in an theater is a lie and not protected.

In point of fact, you are wrong. The "fire in a theater" example came from Schenk v United States , which has been overturned. Also, even without that fact, the issue with yelling fire in a theater is not that it is a lie, but that it is dangerous. In other words, you could yell out other lies in a theater without legal repercussions just fine.

Yes it does, doesn't it.

How about incitement to violence?

Depends very much on the case.

There is a difference between dishonest and purposeful lie. Why should that be protected? Lying about Covid vaccines cost lives. Does that not matter?

"Is it protected?" and "why should it be protected?" are two different things. To the best of my knowledge, it is protected or largely protected. You might, possibly, be able to charge someone with something, but would need to prove they knew it was a lie, and a reasonable person would believe that lie. I am not sure what the charge would be though, and the odds of conviction are likely very low. As to why it should be protected: our country was founded with a bedrock solid conviction that free speech was incredibly important. While there are limits to free speech, they should be incredibly rare and limited. People should be responsible for actually researching decisions, and not making them because Joe Blow says so. I do not like anti-vaxxers, not at all, but I think even people I do not like should have their rights protected.

 

[Redress]

Yes, even when used to get elected.



That varies, but unless it’s (provable) libel, slander, fraud or perjury then you‘re unlikely to face legal consequences.

Damn you for saying what I did, but with far fewer words, and more clearly!

 

[ttwtt78640]

Damn you for saying what I did, but with far fewer words, and more clearly!

Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn.

 

[The Mark]

Are purposeful lies free speech? How about if they cause harm?

Not positive, but I don't think it's whether the speech is true or not that determines whether it's protected.

I think that if you told absolute truths but did so in a way that incited violence, it wouldn't be protected.



tl;dr: It's about the harm, not the truthfulness.

 

[Bum]

Are purposeful lies free speech? How about if they cause harm?

If it isn't calling for the violent overthrow of the Government, inciting riot or panic ( yelling fire in a theatre) or violence against anyone or any group....its free speech.

 

[Redress]

Even a blind squirrel finds the occasional acorn.

And then the squirrel sits outside my window in the middle of the night loudly gnawing at it. But that is another(true) story.

 

[The Mark]

And then the squirrel sits outside my window in the middle of the night loudly gnawing at it. But that is another(true) story.

The proper solution to this is building an obstacle course that the squirrel has to navigate through to reach gnawing sound range.

 

[Redress]

The proper solution to this is building an obstacle course that the squirrel has to navigate through to reach gnawing sound range.

You have seen those videos too? I love them!

 

[HonestJoe]

Are purposeful lies free speech? How about if they cause harm?

At it's core, the concept of free speech applies to literally everything by definition. Rules and laws around free speech (like some other freedoms) are always conditional, based on factors like safety or privacy. I think the key thing about these fundamental freedoms is that the default position is that you should be free to do it, and it can only be limited for a specifically defined reason.