What happens once all abortions are made illegal in this country?

[Gatsby]

Anyone who thinks that abortions will remain legal in parts of this country are just fooling themselves.

There's one problem with this prediction: The voters don't want this, and this agenda is horrendously unpopular.

 

[NuffSaid]

They will never be able to do that, the majority of Americans believe in at least some degree of bodily autonomy for women .

it is a losing stance... unless the other side is so bad that it can not be worried about as much as other issues.

Doesn't matter what the majority of Americans believe. Its what the majority in state legislation believe, especially if the governor is a Republican. Then outright abortion bans happen. They don't care about the voice of the people.
And when its left to the voters, the right still gets all bent out of shape. Look at Ohio.

 

[BirdinHand]

Just so we all appreciate:

A woman dies every 2 minutes somewhere on the planet from pregnancy and childbirth related complications.

A woman dies needlessly every 2 minutes due to pregnancy or childbirth, according to a new UN report. Here's why

Maternal mortality increased in Europe and North America from 2016 through 2020 by 17% and 15% respectively, according to the report.

fortune.com

Pregnancy and childbirth are a risk to every woman.

Restricting women’s access to safe healthcare options is barbaric and horrifying.

 

[Argent]

What happens once all abortions are made illegal in this country?​

There will not be another Republican president until at least the next century and Rs will lose majority their state houses and/or legislatures.

 

[NuffSaid]

What happens is the women start dying in droves because of "God's will".

The right doesn't care. They only care about a group of cells up until birth.
Then the baby is on its own.

 

[eman623]

What happens once all abortions are made illegal in this country?​

On that day, monkeys will fly out of my butt because it's never going to happen.

 

[Questerr]

Ya know...they's a lot of folk that have moved out of California over their passage of commie unconstitutional laws. People move to states where they believe their rights and opportunities are better protected. So...if you live in fear that your right to kill babies in the name of convenience is ever going to be restricted, the run don't walk to the bus station and get a one way ticket to the blue state paradise of your dreams.

Yeah, letting states decide whether or not people should have basic civil and human rights has historically worked out great for America, hasn’t it?

 

[Wry Catcher]

It takes at least two to want/need or rape in a Pregnanacy for an abortion. Why isn't it the male a felony when a women is one too?

The male's sperm can be found in every pregnancy when an abortion is to be seen by the man in most cases, only in a rape of a stranger, or the raper to be arrested.

The Supreme Court and other Federal Courts Prosecute the female and does not the male!

IN THE FUTURE DOES THE SUPREME AND OTHER COURTS MAKE MEDICINE OPERATIONS IN THE CASE OF ANY CRIMES JUSTICE - SOYLENT GREEN JUSTICE?

 

[Hello My Son]

Your own claims in post 5. Now, please explain the 'intelligent' part of whatever "basic minimal rights" you offer. You brought it up. Dont you think that rights and infringements on rights should be "intelligent?"

I already mostly refuted the ones you mentioned. Only "the mother's life" is 'intelligent' and yet we've seen that because of restrictions, women's lives are still endangered by delays.

It's really this confusing for you to understand that aligning the 85% of people based on what they commonly agree about is an "intelligent" strategy?

How about you explain why you think organizing around a super majority of 85% of people to defeat a miniscule 13% of people is NOT an intelligent strategy? Your argument is a hell of a lot more of a head-scratcher than mine, by basic math and common sense alone.

 

[Hello My Son]

?? What's the square root of horseshit?

That's a silly response. You obviously just want to be mad about fake victimhood instead of actually solving part of this problem.

How about a simpler math problem, broken down so even you can comprehend it....44 states have a majority of their citizens being in support of at least some legal abortion protections. 33 states is a 2/3rds majority.

44 - 33 = 11. So there's an 11 state advantage of citizen support that exceeds the minimum threshold of getting an amendment passed.

Stop feigning outrage that this is a lost battle and start demanding that your representatives do the most obvious thing, which is to organize around the 85% of citizens who support some abortion rights being codified.

 

[MamboDervish]

That's a silly response.

Really? You say that after asking what 2/3 of 50 is ???!!!??? It was hard to imagine a sillier response than that one, so pardon me if I did my best to at least equal it.

You obviously just want to be mad about fake victimhood instead of actually solving part of this problem.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

How about a simpler math problem, broken down so even you can comprehend it....44 states have a majority of their citizens being in support of at least some legal abortion protections. 33 states is a 2/3rds majority.

44 - 33 = 11. So there's an 11 state advantage of citizen support that exceeds the minimum threshold of getting an amendment passed.

Stop feigning outrage that this is a lost battle and start demanding that your representatives do the most obvious thing, which is to organize around the 85% of citizens who support some abortion rights being codified.

I have no outrage, and 'm not feigning anything. I merely claimed that you underestimated how difficult it would be to get a constitutional amendment. Because it will be. But hey, if it's as easy as you think it is, nobody's stopping you. Knock yourself out.

 

[Hello My Son]

Really? You say that after asking what 2/3 of 50 is ???!!!??? It was hard to imagine a sillier response than that one, so pardon me if I did my best to at least equal it.

Assumes facts not in evidence.

I have no outrage, and 'm not feigning anything. I merely claimed that you underestimated how difficult it would be to get a constitutional amendment. Because it will be. But hey, if it's as easy as you think it is, nobody's stopping you. Knock yourself out.

I asked because I knew that 44 states hold a majority view and only 33 are needed for an Amendment, and you obviously didn't know that. Hell, you didn't even mention the fact that an Amendment can get passed with 2/3rds of the states in your first post to me.

But since you're concerned with facts, 85% of citizens and 88% of states being in agreement on at least "some" legal abortion protections (rape, incest/child abuse, life of mother) is much more than 66% and wouldn't be difficult at all to get done if politicians and citizens would get off their ass and do something instead of pissing and moaning that they can't get something accomplished with 85% of people on board. That's a stupid argument that shows just how unwilling people are to actually solve this problem because they'd rather play the fake victimhood game instead of organizing the masses.

Imagine thinking that it's "hard" to get something done when 85% of citizens and 88% of states are on board....smfh.... That's not hard to do at all. The fact that they haven't and that they won't is a dereliction of duty problem, not an "it's too hard" problem. That shit is beyond laughable at this point.

 

[Lursa]

It's really this confusing for you to understand that aligning the 85% of people based on what they commonly agree about is an "intelligent" strategy?

Great, I'm not among them so I need you to explain the "intelligent" parts you 'assumed' were associated with their reasoning to negate women's rights to bodily autonomy, liberty, due process, etc. Again, IMO such "intelligent" reasoning should be a requirement for that.

Now, please back up your shit.

Explain the 'intelligent' part of whatever "basic minimal rights" you offer. You brought it up. Dont you think that rights and infringements on rights should be "intelligent?"​

​

I already mostly refuted the ones you mentioned. Only "the mother's life" is 'intelligent' and yet we've seen that because of restrictions, women's lives are still endangered by delays.​

​

Here's a quick reminder for your "minimal basic rights" from my first post:​

​

Please explain the 'intelligent' part of whatever you offer. Like explaining that killing a 15 week old fetus is acceptable but not a 16 week one. Or 6 weeks vs 15 weeks? Or intelligent part of demanding we force women to have kids they cant afford and more taxpayer $$ will be spent supporting them? What's "intelligent" about forcing a woman that wanted a baby to continue carrying a fetus with no brain because it has a heartbeat? Things like that.​

 

[MamboDervish]

I asked because I knew that 44 states hold a majority view and only 33 are needed for an Amendment, and you obviously didn't know that. Hell, you didn't even mention the fact that an Amendment can get passed with 2/3rds of the states in your first post to me.

But since you're concerned with facts, 85% of citizens and 88% of states being in agreement on at least "some" legal abortion protections (rape, incest/child abuse, life of mother) is much more than 66% and wouldn't be difficult at all to get done if politicians and citizens would get off their ass and do something instead of pissing and moaning that they can't get something accomplished with 85% of people on board. That's a stupid argument that shows just how unwilling people are to actually solve this problem because they'd rather play the fake victimhood game instead of organizing the masses.

Imagine thinking that it's "hard" to get something done when 85% of citizens and 88% of states are on board....smfh.... That's not hard to do at all. The fact that they haven't and that they won't is a dereliction of duty problem, not an "it's too hard" problem. That shit is beyond laughable at this point.

Uh .... blah...blah...blah...
Imagine thinking that just because something is favored by the majority of the electorate, it is easy to get done. I won't bother burying you in examples of the minority opinion dominating our politics. It would be too easy, and fall on deaf ears.

Like I said .... knock yourself out!
I look forward to your successful campaign.
Sincerely, MD

 

[Hello My Son]

Uh .... blah...blah...blah...
Imagine thinking that just because something is favored by the majority of the electorate, it is easy to get done. I won't bother burying you in examples of the minority opinion dominating our politics. It would be too easy, and fall on deaf ears.

Like I said .... knock yourself out!
I look forward to your successful campaign.
Sincerely, MD

Thanks for proving my point. You don't want to try because you don't want it to actually be addressed, thus allowing you to endlessly fake victimhood about how it's "going to be banned, so RUN FOR YOUR ****ING LIVES!!!!!*%*&%&(*(&(^(%$$%*!!!!!!!" It's a bullshit, illogical, whaaa whaaa whaaa argument, and you know it.

Lol, 85% support....85%. Since you think it's so hard to get something done with 85% support, how about you name just one ****ing thing that's gotten done in this country with 85% of the country supporting it. Just one. I bet you can't do it!

Time to shit or get off the pot. The fake victimhood whiny bullshit-artist approach has resulted in states being free to ban it if they so choose. It's well-past the time you realize the stupidity and failure of such an approach.

 

[Hello My Son]

Great, I'm not among them so I need you to

Nope. What do I look like, your ****ing personal assistant? Get real and don't make such needy posts. And what's with the weirdo bullshit of making up a bunch of arguments and falsely attributing them to me and then asking me to educate you about them, as if they were my positions.

I said rape, incest/child abuse, and life of mother as a minimal rights list. Where the **** did you come up with all that other bullshit?

Do you really need to have it explained to you why the things I actually did cite are intelligent propositions? Really?

 

[BirdinHand]

That's a silly response. You obviously just want to be mad about fake victimhood instead of actually solving part of this problem.

How about a simpler math problem, broken down so even you can comprehend it....44 states have a majority of their citizens being in support of at least some legal abortion protections. 33 states is a 2/3rds majority.

44 - 33 = 11. So there's an 11 state advantage of citizen support that exceeds the minimum threshold of getting an amendment passed.

Stop feigning outrage that this is a lost battle and start demanding that your representatives do the most obvious thing, which is to organize around the 85% of citizens who support some abortion rights being codified.

Mansplaining Constitutional Amendments and what they should be to women.

Doesn’t understand why no one is listening.


The jokes write themselves.

 

[Hello My Son]

Mansplaining Constitutional Amendments and what they should be to women.

Doesn’t understand why no one is listening.


The jokes write themselves.

What's hilarious is that so many people who engage in fake victimhood bullshit need it explained to them that 44 states is waaaaaaaaay more than the 2/3rds needed. Form a coalition. Get it done. Far more has been accomplished with far less support thousands of times in this country, even in modern history.

Or don't do shit and continue to play fake victimhood games while your rights go down the drain due to the ineffectiveness of the approach you endorse. Either you want to prioritize getting the job done or you want to prioritize having something to continue bitching about while completely blowing the opportunity to protect your rights. You can't have it both ways.

Good luck. I hope you and the rest of the 85% figure it out.

 

[BirdinHand]

What's hilarious is that so many people who engage in fake victimhood bullshit need it explained to them that 44 states is waaaaaaaaay more than the 2/3rds needed. Form a coalition. Get it done. Far more has been accomplished with far less support thousands of times in this country, even in modern history.

Or don't do shit and continue to play fake victimhood games while your rights go down the drain due to the ineffectiveness of the approach you endorse. Either you want to prioritize getting the job done or you want to prioritize having something to continue bitching about while completely blowing the opportunity to protect your rights. You can't have it both ways.

Good luck. I hope you and the rest of the 85% figure it out.

Doubles down on mansplaining.

Excellent.

 

[jnug]

There will be a shift to a significant majority of Americans supporting a Constitutional amendment guaranteeing basic minimal abortion rights like it should've been handled to begin with instead of the stupid, careless approach that was carried on for 50 years.

This is why you don't try to solve complex issues with a one-size-fits-all, iron first rule approach. Start with where everyone pretty much agrees and work up from there. It's the only intelligent strategy to address abortion.

A constitutional amendment is not just falling off a log no matter what the numbers say and its not necessary. Passing something like the Women's Health Protection Act which would have passed out of the Senate with a 60 yes vote majority would have sent just such a law to the House and if passed there onto the President's desk. However not enough Senate Republicans could be found to push the Bill over the goal line in the Senate.

Lets not forget that but for a bunch of lying Radical Extremist Catholics on the Supreme Court shoving their religious ideology and Catholic Canon Law down the country's throat in this and in a number of other ways we would not be here. That there are 5 of these nut job Catholics on the SC plus one conflicted Catholic plus one lapsed Catholic is frankly absurd. There are 7 of 9 Catholics on the SC in a country where only 20% of the citizenry identifies as Catholic. Cleary this was a consorted effort specifically aimed at women's reproductive rights, a big deal for whiny weeny White men in this country intensely interested in driving women back to the kitchen and the bedroom "where they belong".

Given the current circumstances, including reluctance to increase the size of the SC to counterbalance the current BULLSHIT makeup of the SC the best approach IMO is the one currently being followed by Women's Reproductive Rights advocates. Continue to win state referendums on Abortion, continue to reap the benefits in the form of wins in state legislatures, Capitol Hill and the WH and then pass something like the Women's Heath Protection Act when the numbers exist in the halls of power to get it done. This effort also staves off those who wish to curtail women's reproductive rights and contraception by passing a Federal Statute that restricts Abortion and opens the door to legislation regarding Contraceptives and all sorts of other freedoms that we have enjoyed.

 

[Hello My Son]

Doubles down on mansplaining.

Excellent.

Doubles down on fake victimhood while disproving nothing that was said.

Explains why you're losing on the issue.

Not so excellent.

 

[Hello My Son]

A constitutional amendment is not just falling off a log no matter what the numbers say and its not necessary. Passing something like the Women's Health Protection Act which would have passed out of the Senate with a 60 yes vote majority would have sent just such a law to the House and if passed there onto the President's desk. However not enough Senate Republicans could be found to push the Bill over the goal line in the Senate.

Lets not forget that but for a bunch of lying Radical Extremist Catholics on the Supreme Court shoving their religious ideology and Catholic Canon Law down the country's throat in this and in a number of other ways we would not be here. That there are 5 of these nut job Catholics on the SC plus one conflicted Catholic plus one lapsed Catholic is frankly absurd. There are 7 of 9 Catholics on the SC in a country where only 20% of the citizenry identifies as Catholic. Cleary this was a consorted effort specifically aimed at women's reproductive rights, a big deal for whiny weeny White men in this country intensely interested in driving women back to the kitchen and the bedroom "where they belong".

Given the current circumstances, including reluctance to increase the size of the SC to counterbalance the current BULLSHIT makeup of the SC the best approach IMO is the one currently being followed by Women's Reproductive Rights advocates. Continue to win state referendums on Abortion, continue to reap the benefits in the form of wins in state legislatures, Capitol Hill and the WH and then pass something like the Women's Heath Protection Act when the numbers exist in the halls of power to get it done. This effort also staves off those who wish to curtail women's reproductive rights and contraception by passing a Federal Statute that restricts Abortion and opens the door to legislation regarding Contraceptives and all sorts of other freedoms that we have enjoyed.

Getting the ball rolling on an amendment for minimal basic abortion rights to address medical issues, rape, and incest/child abuse, would not be difficult to get off the ground. Besides the anti-crowd only making up 13% of the population, the argument AGAINST protecting those rights would not get off the ground in any significant way. If politicians side with the 13% over the 85%, they will get elected out of office over an issue as big as abortion, and they know it.

Plus, why wouldn't people who claim to be pro-choice want to get behind going for it? I'm convinced more and more by the "we don't even want to try because [insert some insanely illogical, usually playing the victim reason that is grounded in no reality whatsoever, as repeatedly demonstrated by multiple posters earlier in the thread]" that the so-called pro-choicers would rather sabotage any progress because they don't want to give up the "they're going to ban abortion" fear card that they've relied on for several decades in an effort to win elections.

The fight's over--they lost the messaging and the momentum on the issue. Time to centrally organize around the positions that 85% of Americans can agree on and build from there. It's the only smart play they have.

Or, they can double down on the moronic strategy that has failed this miserably so far and continue to sit on their hands and bitch while rights are continuously stripped away one by one. But, hey, at least they'll still have something to endlessly bitch about, right?

 

[Lethargic Aptitude]

Anyone who thinks that abortions will remain legal in parts of this country are just fooling themselves. The aim of a minority of Americans is that all abortions will once again be against the law and they will not stop until they have succeeded. They have ended Roe, next they will stop the use of abortion medications, and finally contraceptives, it will be a never-ending process that might take many more years, but it will happen. The final nail in the coffin will be the life begins at conception and giving a fetus the same rights as a live person. The real problem not faced by those who wish this is what happens then. The same people who want to end abortion also want to end what they call the welfare state. So in what is one of the wealthiest nations on earth, many more children will starve than already do. Of course, the wealthy can still send their women out of the country to get what the rest of the nation cannot.

Civic unrest.

 

[StarvedForChange]

Anyone who thinks that abortions will remain legal in parts of this country are just fooling themselves. The aim of a minority of Americans is that all abortions will once again be against the law and they will not stop until they have succeeded. They have ended Roe, next they will stop the use of abortion medications, and finally contraceptives, it will be a never-ending process that might take many more years, but it will happen. The final nail in the coffin will be the life begins at conception and giving a fetus the same rights as a live person. The real problem not faced by those who wish this is what happens then. The same people who want to end abortion also want to end what they call the welfare state. So in what is one of the wealthiest nations on earth, many more children will starve than already do. Of course, the wealthy can still send their women out of the country to get what the rest of the nation cannot.

One of the reasons, if not the main reason the Trump cult did so poorly in 2022 was because of the Dobbs decision. The cult is taking it even further now, threatening blocking access to both birth control and IVF. Suburban women, even conservative women aren't taking kindly to the signals the cult is sending and it's going to be pretty hard for the cult to win any elections doing what they're doing.

I am optimistic the court's not going to outlaw mifepristone, for example. They realize with the Dobbs decision they're "the dog who caught the car". They're going to have to slow their roll if they don't want to further harm their reputation.

 

[Hello My Son]

One of the reasons, if not the main reason the Trump cult did so poorly in 2022 was because of the Dobbs decision. The cult is taking it even further now, threatening blocking access to both birth control and IVF. Suburban women, even conservative women aren't taking kindly to the signals the cult is sending and it's going to be pretty hard for the cult to win any elections doing what they're doing.

I am optimistic the court's not going to outlaw mifepristone, for example. They realize with the Dobbs decision they're "the dog who caught the car". They're going to have to slow their roll if they don't want to further harm their reputation.

Yep, exactly right. And the failure of the pro-choicers to coalesce around the variables that a vast majority of Americans can agree on is such a wasted opportunity. They're allowing the most extremist people who want all abortions to be illegal all of the time, whom only make up 13% of the entire population and only have 7 states they dominate with that position, to take the "lead" on the issue. It's a completely insane approach to be taking if securing abortion rights nationwide is the goal.