What Conspiracy?

[shanners]

If a decade ago someone had suggested that the CIA overthrew legitimately elected governments around the world they would've been branded a conspiracy theorist. Yet that is indeed what has happened:

"Sixty years after the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh, a declassified CIA document acknowledges that the agency was involved in the 1953 coup."

In declassified document, CIA acknowledges role in 1953 Iran coup - CNNPolitics

 

[MrWonka]

If a decade ago someone had suggested that the CIA overthrew legitimately elected governments around the world they would've been branded a conspiracy theorist.

The information on Operation Ajax was actually declassified quite some time ago. In fact, I remember talking with a friend about it back in like 2006 or 2007 and at that point it had been out there for awhile.

 

[bongsaway]

All one has to do is type in a search for 'cia coups' and look at how many pop up. It might actually be a good thing that some folks recognize why so many people around the world hate the usa.

 

[Thoreau72]

Old news. They made a movie about it a few years ago, but this morning Google doesn't want to give up the name. ARGO?

The CIA also finally admitted that Gary Webb had been right in his claims about the Agency's role in the crack cocaine epidemic in the 80's, but they made that admission on the same day the story broke about Monica Lewinsky. Go figure.

 

[Ikari]

If a decade ago someone had suggested that the CIA overthrew legitimately elected governments around the world they would've been branded a conspiracy theorist. Yet that is indeed what has happened:

"Sixty years after the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh, a declassified CIA document acknowledges that the agency was involved in the 1953 coup."

In declassified document, CIA acknowledges role in 1953 Iran coup - CNNPolitics

We do it all the time, I don't know if there's really any conspiracy to it. I mean, we even sold guns to Iran to fund a band of drug-running revolutionaries in Nicaragua. We're always doing things like this.

 

[Rumpel]

Yes, there is nothing new under the sun ....

 

[shanners]

The CIA also finally admitted that Gary Webb had been right in his claims about the Agency's role in the crack cocaine epidemic in the 80's

Then he was found to have committed 'suicide.' How convenient.

 

[shanners]

We do it all the time, I don't know if there's really any conspiracy to it. I mean, we even sold guns to Iran to fund a band of drug-running revolutionaries in Nicaragua. We're always doing things like this.

'In fact, conspiracies are so common that judges are trained to look at conspiracy allegations as just another legal claim to be disproven or proven based on the specific evidence:

Federal and all 50 state’s codes include specific statutes addressing conspiracy, and providing the punishment for people who commit conspiracies... The heads of Enron were found guilty of conspiracy, as was the head of Adelphia. Numerous lower-level government officials have been found guilty of conspiracy. See this, this, this, this and this.

Time Magazine’s financial columnist Justin Fox writes:

Some financial market conspiracies are real … Most good investigative reporters are conspiracy theorists, by the way...

A common defense to people trying sidetrack investigations into potential conspiracies is to say that “someone would have spilled the beans” if there were really a conspiracy.

But famed whistleblower Daniel Ellsberg explains:

It is a commonplace that “you can’t keep secrets in Washington” or “in a democracy, no matter how sensitive the secret, you’re likely to read it the next day in the New York Times.” These truisms are flatly false. They are in fact cover stories, ways of flattering and misleading journalists and their readers, part of the process of keeping secrets well. Of course eventually many secrets do get out that wouldn’t in a fully totalitarian society. But the fact is that the overwhelming majority of secrets do not leak to the American public. This is true even when the information withheld is well known to an enemy and when it is clearly essential to the functioning of the congressional war power and to any democratic control of foreign policy. The reality unknown to the public and to most members of Congress and the press is that secrets that would be of the greatest import to many of them can be kept from them reliably for decades by the executive branch, even though they are known to thousands of insiders.'


In 1967, the CIA Created the Label "Conspiracy Theorists" ... to Attack Anyone Who Challenges the "Official" Narrative | Zero Hedge | Zero Hedge

 

[shanners]

we even sold guns to Iran to fund a band of drug-running revolutionaries in Nicaragua. We're always doing things like this.

'In Central America, Israel and the CIA armed and trained the Nicaraguan Contras, and the Guatemalan death squads, and the fascist military in El Salvador. Between them, they left at least a hundred thousand dead. Little of this was reported.'

- John Pilger, Freedom Next Time

 

[Overitall]

If a decade ago someone had suggested that the CIA overthrew legitimately elected governments around the world they would've been branded a conspiracy theorist. Yet that is indeed what has happened

Do you think your average American would (or should) care?

 

[Torus34]

Most folks are content to go along thinking of their country as one of the 'do no wrong' good guys. They conveniently set aside the world of realpolitik. They're content to live a life bounded by their everyday worlds. That's neither good nor bad. It simply is.

 

[Thoreau72]

Most folks are content to go along thinking of their country as one of the 'do no wrong' good guys. They conveniently set aside the world of realpolitik. They're content to live a life bounded by their everyday worlds. That's neither good nor bad. It simply is.

Being detached from reality is neither good nor bad?

 

[RaleBulgarian]

Then he was found to have committed 'suicide.' How convenient.

In 1967, the CIA Created the Label "Conspiracy Theorists" ... to Attack Anyone Who Challenges the "Official" Narrative | Zero Hedge | Zero Hedge

Cites Zero Hedge, a whack a doodle conspiracy site with absolutely no credibility.
Zero Hedge - Media Bias/Fact Check

This thread is headed

 

[Torus34]

Being detached from reality is neither good nor bad?

Hi! We're detached from reality in one way or another, simply because there's too much of interest in this universe, not to mention in our own and other cultures, for us to keep track of it all. We select some areas of interest and ignore others.

Case in point. Reality, to a loyal baseball fan [Ed.: You know, the type who speaks of his team as 'we'.], means being able to quote from memory teams of old and who did what when, not to mention who's doing what now and who'll do what in the future. That reality is denied most of us simply because we aren't able to spend the hours and hours necessary to encompass it to that depth.

So, how does one go about determining how much knowledge of what mix of 'realities' is 'right'? Without that as a standard, it's difficult to talk about good and bad. I would certainly not attempt it.

'Nuff said.

Regards.

 

[TheParser]

1. Oh, yes, the United States has been overthrowing governments for a long time.

2. When we defeated poor pathetic Spain, the people in the Philippines were ecstatic -- until they realized that the Americans were not going to give them their independence.
They would have to wait 50 years for that.


3. And although it's terrible that Central Americans are illegally flooding into our country, our "leaders" have long interfered in their affairs. As some immigrants have said, "We are here because you were there."

4. And, of course, we all know that the United States gave the OK to the Vietnamese military to overthrow President Diem and to the Chilean military to overthrow President Allende.

5. It was a Mexican leader who once said something like: "Poor Mexico. So far from God; so close to the United States."

 

[What if...?]

We do it all the time, I don't know if there's really any conspiracy to it. I mean, we even sold guns to Iran to fund a band of drug-running revolutionaries in Nicaragua. We're always doing things like this.

Hey, at least they sold some coke to pay for those weapons and didn't make us taxpayers foot the bill, right?

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

If a decade ago someone had suggested that the CIA overthrew legitimately elected governments around the world they would've been branded a conspiracy theorist. Yet that is indeed what has happened:

"Sixty years after the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh, a declassified CIA document acknowledges that the agency was involved in the 1953 coup."

In declassified document, CIA acknowledges role in 1953 Iran coup - CNNPolitics

Ask the average American, and they will tell you that our troubles with Iran started in 1979, not 1953.
If you mention the events of 1953, you will most likely get a blank stare.

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Hey, at least they sold some coke to pay for those weapons and didn't make us taxpayers foot the bill, right?

And I probably snorted and smoked about half of it.

 

[Thoreau72]

Hi! We're detached from reality in one way or another, simply because there's too much of interest in this universe, not to mention in our own and other cultures, for us to keep track of it all. We select some areas of interest and ignore others.

Case in point. Reality, to a loyal baseball fan [Ed.: You know, the type who speaks of his team as 'we'.], means being able to quote from memory teams of old and who did what when, not to mention who's doing what now and who'll do what in the future. That reality is denied most of us simply because we aren't able to spend the hours and hours necessary to encompass it to that depth.

So, how does one go about determining how much knowledge of what mix of 'realities' is 'right'? Without that as a standard, it's difficult to talk about good and bad. I would certainly not attempt it.

'Nuff said.

Regards.

You're right--it is what it is.

That said, certain insight is provided when the citizens of a country are most famous for being loosely tethered to reality. It reminds me of what William Casey of CIA said in 1981: "When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts."

 

[Thoreau72]

Ask the average American, and they will tell you that our troubles with Iran started in 1979, not 1953.
If you mention the events of 1953, you will most likely get a blank stare.

Ask the average American, and they will tell you all sorts of publicly accepted falsehoods, including what you just mentioned. One should not expect less from a society raised on fictions like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

 

[Torus34]

You're right--it is what it is.

That said, certain insight is provided when the citizens of a country are most famous for being loosely tethered to reality. It reminds me of what William Casey of CIA said in 1981: "When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts."

Confirmation for the quote, and to whom it was said, can be found at: Did CIA Director William Casey really say, 'We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false'? - Quora

Regards

 

[Checkerboard Strangler]

Ask the average American, and they will tell you all sorts of publicly accepted falsehoods, including what you just mentioned. One should not expect less from a society raised on fictions like Santa Claus and the Tooth Fairy.

When everything the American people believe is false, we will know the success of our misinformation efforts.

Not an accepted falsehood. Americans simply never heard anything at all about the CIA coup of 1953 until only very recently.
And I sort of doubt it is being taught in world history curriculae even now. I would guess that it is still just being omitted.

 

[3leftsdoo]

Important thread.

 

[Thoreau72]

Confirmation for the quote, and to whom it was said, can be found at: Did CIA Director William Casey really say, 'We'll know our disinformation program is complete when everything the American public believes is false'? - Quora

Regards

Thanks, I've read that before. I agree with the lady that was in the room when Casey said it.

In the end, it's the words that matter, not who exactly said it. Presuming one understands that US misinformation programs exist, that it IS a technique used by propagandists, it doesn't matter who said it.

Having signed up for Quora months ago, and tried to make a go of it, it seems to me the site is designed to cater to those with sub 60 IQ. Typical question: "who wears a larger jockstrap, John Bolton or Donald Trump?"

Like Wikipedia, it seems a playground for propagandists.

 

[snakestretcher]

If a decade ago someone had suggested that the CIA overthrew legitimately elected governments around the world they would've been branded a conspiracy theorist. Yet that is indeed what has happened:

"Sixty years after the overthrow of Iranian Prime Minister Mohammad Mossadegh, a declassified CIA document acknowledges that the agency was involved in the 1953 coup."

In declassified document, CIA acknowledges role in 1953 Iran coup - CNNPolitics

This is not news; it's been common knowledge for a long time now. It does, however, give lie to the flag-waving pronouncements of 'democracy' and 'freedom' the US pretends to champion. Of course it all depends on whether that democracy is the US-approved variety...